I wish he'd dribble a lot more though. Evra was brilliant in how because of him we could be defending one moment and be on the counter moments later. We know he has the ability to that but seems to prefer playing it safe.
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 4
Agree with all that and that Valencia has no blame on him for the goal. Yesterday was different in that we retained the left hand side triangle of Fellaini, Young and Shaw (coming in for Blind), but the usual right hand side triangle wasn't there as Herrera played DM and Mata drifts inside more than Young anyway because he's an attacking midfielder playing wide rather than a natural winger. Neville also noted how deep Chelsea were defending particularly in the first half which meant there was plenty of space for Mata in front of the penalty area to try and influence play and that in turn led to Valencia being quite often 2 vs. 1. He got a bit more help out there when Januzaj came on but unfortunately the kid had a poor game.
Who else has the skill of Valencia? I've been really impressed by Valencia at right back and he is getting better each month. Ivanovic is the best currently then either Coleman or Zabaletta (who Valencia has had a better season than both) or Clyne and imho Valencia is already an upgrade of Clyne.
Valencia has found his form again after that dreadful injury. It took time and he has carried a lot of criticism sometimes warranted but most often not. He has been especially on top of his game in the last few matches. A top player and becoming much more the finished article.
Don't see how that was Valencia's fault. He was covering the line to make sure Fabregas does not run off him. Herrera should have tracked Hazard better. But overall, I am very satisfied with everyone's performance. Falcao clearly is not the answer for us as a CF, apart from that everyone did well. Oh, Smalling should learn how to control a back pass. He over hits it so often it's ridiculous.
I don't understand. He was player of the season the year after his injury. That has had nothing to do with his drop in form. This is a player who's gone from one of best wingers in the league to a full back who has been outshone going forward by whoever is playing on the flank opposite (Shaw yesterday now). I'm not sure what the finished article is meant to be.
It's surprising how many times you have to remind people of this. You're right that it's nothing to do with that leg break at all, just a combination of limited technique which allowed defenders to work him out plus a spectacular dip in confidence and self belief I think.
The irony of bringing up Smalling over hitting back passes in a Valencia thread.
It was Herrera's mistake not to foul Hazard when he had the run on him, Herrera was never keeping up with Hazard in a foot face though. My gripe, as I had mentioned previously is a switched on full back would've had the intelligence to read the progression of the game. Smalling rightly stepped up to challenge Oscar leaving a gaping hole on the right hand side, the only immediate danger was Hazard who was running directly at that space. Blind, Shaw and probably Rafael would've all noticed this and tucked in.
The problem started because Falcao wasn't strong enough to hold Terry off. Valencia was in a position to give Smalling a passing option as we were in possession. We lost it and from that point there is nothing Valencia can do about it. You're talking shite.
Ivanovic got tortured yesterday afternoon despite having the benefit of playing in a team camped in their penalty box.
Along with Shaw he was our best player.
The agenda posting on here really is staggering at times. Valencia has many positive points. Along with his pace and athleticism he is excellent at retaining possession which is absolutely key for Van Gaal's United. His end product is poor but he overlaps well and creates space and options for Mata and Herrera inside.
But those that that defend him from the "he never takes anyone on and his crossing is crap" brigade seem oblivious to his faults. He has terrible defensive instincts. My issue with him is that at a club like United, your first choice right back cannot be such a defensive weak link.
Against poor teams where United dominate it may not matter but in big games against better teams they will exploit the gaping holes he leaves due to poor positioning. The first goal in these big games is crucial and in recent games against the rest of the top 4, the first goal was conceded through a gaping hole in the right side of defence. That is now 3 from the last 3.
Yet he is "solid defensively"?
But those that that defend him from the "he never takes anyone on and his crossing is crap" brigade seem oblivious to his faults. He has terrible defensive instincts. My issue with him is that at a club like United, your first choice right back cannot be such a defensive weak link.
Against poor teams where United dominate it may not matter but in big games against better teams they will exploit the gaping holes he leaves due to poor positioning. The first goal in these big games is crucial and in recent games against the rest of the top 4, the first goal was conceded through a gaping hole in the right side of defence. That is now 3 from the last 3.
Yet he is "solid defensively"?
You can't just say it came down that side so it was his fault. Both have come from players running off Herrera in central areas. I'm not sure what the three were. Unless you're counting the cup game I suppose. Liverpool's goal came from the other side when we played them. As did City's second but we don't have endless discussions about the position of our left back.
Monreal vs Arsenal was the third.
It's not "the goal came down the right so it's his fault". In all 3 cases a player wandered in on the right side of the box and had so much time to do whatever they wanted.
He's the right back in a back 4 that defends zonally. In my time watching United I've never seen another right back who leaves such yawning gaps in defence.
It's not "the goal came down the right so it's his fault". In all 3 cases a player wandered in on the right side of the box and had so much time to do whatever they wanted.
He's the right back in a back 4 that defends zonally. In my time watching United I've never seen another right back who leaves such yawning gaps in defence.
Heh. Poster comes into thread accusing others of having an agenda. Proceeds to blame a player for a goal conceded which had absolutely nothing to do with him. Classic.
Seeing a trend now. After every freaking game there are about 5 posters (not naming them) claiming Valencia being bad and needs to be flogged. Well apart from Valencia, we really do not have a choice currently (seeing that LvG does not rate Rafael although him being fit). And I guess before the end of the season, LvG does not want to tinker too much with the current 11.
I'll assume it was my post you are referring to. Which goal had nothing to do with him?
I don't blame him for any of the goals - its more down to a miscommunication between several players of who is marking who. The anti-Valencia agenda is quite strong here though. Many think Rafa should be starting and each week, and go match day shopping for potential Valencia mistakes to reinforce their views.
Well we only conceded one. So it would be that one.
I try to avoid scapegoating when we concede a goal without any really obvious defensive error but if we really had to blame one United player for Chelsea's goal then it would obviously be Hererra. Nobody else even partly culpable. Unless, of course, you've got an underlying agenda...
It was a good goal, though, and not a very bad error. So don't see the point of scapegoating anyone tbh.
In an MEN article:
Im fully with the MEN in regards to Valencia's limitations.
Both he and Ander are at fault for the goal. But Valencia had the entire passage of play ahead of him and could clearly see Hazard bursting past Ander and yet did nothing to close him down. This lack of defensive awareness will cost us a title if we continue to stick with him in defence.
What Valencia does, he mostly does pretty well. I just find him to be an incredibly one dimensional and limited player. His one footedness is an example - how many years has he had as a professional footballer, and not been able to just learn how to use his left foot from time to time? There are so many occasions every single game I see where he has the ball and could make a great pass if he used his left foot, but he inevitably doesnt.
Like I said, what he does do, he does pretty well, I would just prefer someone like Rafael who in my opinion is capable of doing a lot more.
Like I said, what he does do, he does pretty well, I would just prefer someone like Rafael who in my opinion is capable of doing a lot more.
It's actually uncanny how similar Hazard's goal is similar to Aguero's first goal last week. Both times a midfielder failed to track a run and Valencia gets blame from some on here. Mata stopped tracking Silva and this week Herrera lost Hazard. Could Valencia be blamed? Possibly, because I'm assuming that part of his instruction from LvG is to cover for them. But in no way can you honestly say he was beaten or drawn away from where he was supposed to be. It's telling that he stopped running out of frustration at seeing Hazard unmarked running into the box.
It's interesting to note how both Mata and Herrera were on the bench for the greater part of the season, undoubtedly due to their lack of defensive discipline since they are clearly 2 of the more creative players we have. However given our recent form, having them both on the field has produced results but it does come at a risk because they can tend to switch off.
It's interesting to note how both Mata and Herrera were on the bench for the greater part of the season, undoubtedly due to their lack of defensive discipline since they are clearly 2 of the more creative players we have. However given our recent form, having them both on the field has produced results but it does come at a risk because they can tend to switch off.
This - AV was wide to give his usual outball to our defence/midfield. The fact that a teammate turned it over easily left him out fo the equation. Someone should have fouled Hazard and took a yellow.
Valencia is an interesting one, I was never a big fan of him as a winger as he lacks flair, I was always in the Nani camp. However as a RB I think he's fine up to a point, he's very solid and as @Pexbo says, he offers a good out ball and possession retention.
The big issue is in our current system the fullbacks need to provide a threat in attack, you could say this of the modern fullback in general but when you use inverted wingers then that overlap needs to provide penetration and a good final ball, Valencia has been seriously lacking in the latter for some time now, and it's highlighted when when compared to the chances Blind and Shaw have created from the LB position in the last 3 games.
The big issue is in our current system the fullbacks need to provide a threat in attack, you could say this of the modern fullback in general but when you use inverted wingers then that overlap needs to provide penetration and a good final ball, Valencia has been seriously lacking in the latter for some time now, and it's highlighted when when compared to the chances Blind and Shaw have created from the LB position in the last 3 games.
See I'm not convinced that in this system overlapping is so important from the fullback.
This system has an additional midfielder operating with the wide players. So rather than the classic partnership of fullback and winger it's more about the triangle of Fullback - Midfielder - Wide Man. Valencia - Herrera - Mata, Blind - Fellaini - Young.
With Herrera and Mata not being as good as defensively as Fellaini and Young, I think Van Gaal has Valencia really choosing when to overlap wisely. They create space for each other by short passing and moving and it's generally Herrera's role to make the runs which create space for Mata.
Probably has been this season. Ivanovic is incredibly overrated because he scores a few goals, zabaleta has been poor and there is nobody else really. Clyne is pretty good but nothing better then valencia this season who has been at a pretty good level all year.
Clyne's reputation has been heavily boosted by playing in a defensive Southampton side that has Wanayama and Schneiderlin offering a lot of protection to the back four.
*Points out the error of a player that are clear as day* cry AGENDA!!!
It's been explained numerous times why it wasn't his fault by numerous people. It's only the 4 or 5 who have an agenda against him that are actually blaming him.
And its been explained numerous times that a good right back could've done a hell of a lot better. It isn't '4 or 5' people, theres a heck of a lot of people here who don't rate Valencia, just check out the what players we need next season thread, members like yourself seem hellbent on absolving him of any blame in the last 6/7 games, that's more of an agenda than anything.
As I've said a couple of times here I wouldn't directly blame Valencia for the goal yesterday but he could've done so much more to prevent it. When the ball was played to Oscar Smalling correctly stepped up to stop him turning which left a gaping hole between our right back and our centre back, after Hazard had broken away from Herrera the only dangerous ball on at that time was to Hazard who was bursting into that gaping hole. At no point did Valencia read this danger and tuck in to prevent it, something an intelligent fullback would've done. Its this lack of footballing intelligence and failure to read the progression of an attack that costs a team set up in the way we are, we rely on players knowing their roles and for everyone to work as a team.
There was another prime example of this when Herrera played a poor, short ball to Valencia that was never going to reach him, he could've either stepped back into position to prevent the counter attack or he could've stepped forward to challenge Fabregas (who intercepted the pass), he did neither, he just sat on the sideline waiting for the ball because he struggles to read the game.
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I've said myself I'd happily take a new right back in the summer if Van Gaal identifies an upgrade but it's got to be a top quality player who can grow to be one of the best in the world. Otherwise I'd stick with Valencia and keep scouting.
I just find it a bit tiresome that a few posters can't be objective about him. They're either so scarred by Valencia the winger or frustrated that one of their favourites in Rafael can't get ahead of him that they take great pleasure out of blaming him for every goal we concede and ignore all the good stuff he does for us.
I've said a million times now, he's one of my least favourite players at the club but I'm not letting that get in the way of seeing what he actually brings to the side and I'm not going to paint him to be worse than he is because I want to be proven right that he's a coward when it comes to attacking. It just so happens that that conservative nature has made him a real asset at right back.
Van Gaal keeps playing him there so I'm happy enough and if he finds an upgrade in the summer, excellent. If certain posters who have it in for him want to keep trying to lump the blame on him for every goal that we concede so be it but myself and a few others will continue to call them out on it.
End of discussion. He did nothing even though he could see everything unfolding in his field of vision.
Which is still bollocks. He's in the correct position to stop Fabregas progressing down the line, if he's not there Fabregas has acres of space.
It goes to Oscar and Hazard is already moving into that space behind Valencia. It's Herrera's responsibility to track Hazard and defend that space if Valencia has to step up and press Fabregas.
There is absolutely no time whatsoever for Valencia to spot that Herrera has made a huge error in chasing the ball rather than tracking his man. It's split seconds. Impossible.
I don't get how some rate him so highly, I can understand defending him but its bizzare to read him as one of the best.
He's an incredibly limited player who can follow the simple instructions he's given for this system. He doesn't offer an attacking threat and his only defensive skill is to shoulder players off the ball. We do compensate well for him though as Smalling is aware that he needs to cover, however, I question why we need to cover for a RB who offers only a steady out ball.
He's an incredibly limited player who can follow the simple instructions he's given for this system. He doesn't offer an attacking threat and his only defensive skill is to shoulder players off the ball. We do compensate well for him though as Smalling is aware that he needs to cover, however, I question why we need to cover for a RB who offers only a steady out ball.
If you're absolutely determined to find fault a fullback, it's easy. Every goal that is scored from any position to his side of the penalty spot can be blamed on him. And it seems that some people really are absolutely determined to find fault in Valencia. Which is a bit sad but there you go.
Back in the real world, when midfielders don't track runs we will concede goals and there's nothing our defenders can do about that. Mata and Herrera have been great, so it's churlish to point fingers but seeings as some people on here are absolutely determined to point fingers (see above) they make themselves look like mugs when they point those fingers in the wrong direction.
Back in the real world, when midfielders don't track runs we will concede goals and there's nothing our defenders can do about that. Mata and Herrera have been great, so it's churlish to point fingers but seeings as some people on here are absolutely determined to point fingers (see above) they make themselves look like mugs when they point those fingers in the wrong direction.
@Pogue Mahone, you're probably finding it quite comical seeing me sick of defending Valencia considering it used to be you defending him from my rants.
Valencia gets so much criticism on this forum He wasn't brilliant against Chelsea, but some are making him out to be an useless sack of shit.
People are just actively trying to find faults in his game at times.
He was effective and I thought he had a decent game.
He wasn't brilliant against Chelsea, but some are making him out to be an useless sack of shit. People are just actively trying to find faults in his game at times.
He was effective and I thought he had a decent game.
Just a bit!
You see, I actually don't have a problem with people thinking we could do better. I'm also a big fan of Rafael so can understand why people are frustrated about him being frozen out.
What's getting really stupid, though, is the desperation of some people to try and find a way to have a go at Valencia, when he's done absolutely feck all wrong. Just makes them look stupid tbh. He had a good game against Chelsea. One of our better players. This evidently bothers some people. Oh well.