[Nighteyes]

He's partly at fault, not entirely.

Valencia is one of those players, youll only see how much better you could have when you actually finally get somebody better.

He's neat and tidy, strong and fast, that's it.

He wouldn't or shouldn't be a starting RB for a team that wants to be challenging for the title and champions league. It's really not a surprise that that is a position Van Gaal seemingly can't wait to improve.

He's not at fault for the goal. Defensively he does his job very well, probably better than most RB's in the league. Ivanovic got destroyed by Shaw today for instance.

Could do better going forward but doesn't help him that he doesn't have an actual winger next to him.

I'd say he's the kind of RB people will appreciate once we sign a RB in the summer and realise he's not better than Valencia after all. People still judge him as a winger which is the main problem. Forget he ever played as a winger for us and he starts to look like an excellent RB.

 

[Burrow]

I don't understand how he is remotely at fault for this goal though... I mean, he could have maybe closed down Fabregas a bit faster, but that's hardly the biggest crime.

First of all he failed to push Fabregas to the side of the pitch, rather then inviting him into the centre. He also barely broke a sweat to catch up with Hazard..

I hope he's stuck in traffic for the Everton -game just so Rafael could get a chance

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Valencia getting blamed again... We got completely outplayed for their goal. Sometimes you have to just take sit back and applaud Oscar and Hazard, I don't think anyone can be blamed.

 

[Bubz27]

He's not at fault for the goal. Defensively he does his job very well, probably better than most RB's in the league. Ivanovic got destroyed by Shaw today for instance.

Could do better going forward but doesn't help him that he doesn't have an actual winger next to him.

I'd say he's the kind of RB people will appreciate once we sign a RB in the summer and realise he's not better than Valencia after all. People still judge him as a winger which is the main problem. Forget he ever played as a winger for us and he starts to look like an excellent RB.

I disagree, but let's move on.

 

[justboy68]

Thought he was good today overall. Varied up his attacking play a bit more than usual coming inside and I think picked out more forward passes, although memory could be failing me. A better defender maybe would have been more switched on to the danger of Hazard running in behind, but it's a stretch to say he was the main one at fault.

 

[acnumber9]

First of all he failed to push Fabregas to the side of the pitch, rather then inviting him into the centre. He also barely broke a sweat to catch up with Hazard..

I hope he's stuck in traffic for the Everton -game just so Rafael could get a chance

He was nowhere near Hazard. It was Hererra who let him run away from him.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

May as well start blaming him for HIV, bird flu, the plague... Think his defending allowed that tsunami to take out South East Asia too...

 

[Cassidy]

He was nowhere near Hazard. It was Hererra who let him run away from him.

I think he should have seen the danger a bit earlier tbh, Herrera is def the most culpable, but looking head on, he should have seen that coming, and he reacted way too late to the situation.

 

[Ekeke]

Mata is with Fabregas. Valencia is in no man's land.

 

[berbatrick]

May as well start blaming him for HIV, bird flu, the plague... Think his defending allowed that tsunami to take out South East Asia too...

If he had been in charge of defending that he would have been trying to stop a storm in Florida while the tsunami was eating up Indonesia.

 

[acnumber9]

Mata is with Fabregas. Valencia is in no man's land.

He was on the touch line positioning himself for a pass from Smalling. There was a still of when he played the pass to Falcao earlier on Sky. Not one of the people on the panel mentioned Valencia. People here are stretching to put any blame on him for this while absolving the player who was actually closest to Hazard.

 

[Raoul]

The utter desperation to blame Valencia for everything is getting a bit tedious.

 

[izec]

The difference between overrating Herrera and underrating Valencia is ridiculous. Bet if he was a likeable Spanish guy, people would praise him.

 

[Ekeke]

He was on the touch line positioning himself for a pass from Smalling. There was a still of when he played the pass to Falcao earlier on Sky. Not one of the people on the panel mentioned Valencia. People here are stretching to put any blame on him for this while absolving the player who was actually closest to Hazard.

Thats 5 seconds before Fabregas gets the ball. He's taken it, gone past mata and passed the ball and Valencia hasnt moved

 

[Bojan11]

Can he learn how to take a throw in.

 

[Red Shorts]

Can he learn how to take a throw in.

It is pretty poor isn't it. He's on the edge every time for it being a foul throw.

 

[m1y2]

he was average at best, once again showed he is one way player, knowing only some moves unable to improvize or play with his left foot, provide more inventive passing to the middle.. really looks like lacks brain completely and see only 10 yards around him. Scared to shit to make some half risky pass. His solidity wasn't just enough in a game where we needed to create chances..

#Bringbackrafa

 

[Randall Flagg]

Why isn't LVG seeing all that is wrong with Valencia? It's getting silly that he seems to take some kind of blame every week.

He was very solid again today, I would go as far to say he has been one of the best right backs in the PL in 2015

 

[acnumber9]

Thats 5 seconds before Fabregas gets the ball. He's taken it, gone past mata and passed the ball and Valencia hasnt moved

So Fabregas has gone past Mata and Hazard has gone past Herrera and the goal is Valencia's fault? You can't expect to be taken seriously here.

 

[Ekeke]

So Fabregas has gone past Mata and Hazard has gone past Herrera and the goal is Valencia's fault? You can't expect to be taken seriously here.

Theres no danger from Fabregas going past Mata on the halfway line if your right back is at right back.

When he's stuck to the spot and Fabregas finds a pass to Oscar, thats when its trouble.

If Fabregas runs the ball down the line, then Valencia has to eventually confront him and block crossing oppertunities. There is absolutely no need to try and confront him that far forward, and then fail to do so, and then fail to recover your position. He took himself out of the move completely by being in the wrong position to start with

 

[Pexbo]

Theres no danger from Fabregas going past Mata on the halfway line if your right back is at right back.

When he's stuck to the spot and Fabregas finds a pass to Oscar, thats when its trouble.

If Fabregas runs the ball down the line, then Valencia has to eventually confront him and block crossing oppertunities. There is absolutely no need to try and confront him that far forward, and then fail to do so, and then fail to recover your position. He took himself out of the move completely by being in the wrong position to start with

You are talking absolute nonsense mate.


Hazard is only Valencia's man when he's working the right channel. We don't man mark wingers, he was central and he was Herrera's responsibility.

That's Hazard next to the referee and Valencia in the correct space to stop Fabregas attacking down the line.

That's Herrera by the ref inexplicably chasing the ball towards Oscar who now recieves it from Fabregas. In this situation Carrick or Blind would be keeping goals side of and tracking the runner, Hazard.

You can see here that Herrera made completely the wrong decision, running towards a player with two men covering him already, Smalling closed him down while McNair had him covered on his left. As this is barely a few seconds later Valencia is still in position at right back, there's no way he is expected to fall back into that space, it's Herrera's job to track Hazard.




Here's the video to see how fast it plays out. Valencia does try to cover for Herrera but as he was in the correct position to contain Hazard, he can't get back in time.


Long and the short of it, Herrera chased the ball rather than tracking the player. Put simply, Herrera is not a defensive midfielder and if we had Carrick or Blind fit we most likely would not have conceded that goal.

feck all to do with Valencia.

 

[Lawman]

Smalling should have seen Hazzard run of Herrera and adjusted quicker. Valencia was not to blame. That's the way we play with our full backs if the goal had been with the Chelsea defence then yes you would be questioning the full back as they play deeper and flatter.

 

[Water Melon]

A cross of Valencia and Rafael would make an ideal RB. However, you do not find many of them these days, I guess.

 

[lem8sh]

Goal today not his fault but he's a failed, gutless winger playing right back. Need investment in that department.

 

[Pexbo]

Valencia's stats yesterday:

68/70 passes. 97.1%
0/2 crosses.
3/5 take ons
3/5 tackles
3 interceptions
6 ball recoveries.

That's a good day for a fullback.

 

[Roosney]

he was average at best, once again showed he is one way player, knowing only some moves unable to improvize or play with his left foot, provide more inventive passing to the middle.. really looks like lacks brain completely and see only 10 yards around him. Scared to shit to make some half risky pass. His solidity wasn't just enough in a game where we needed to create chances..

#Bringbackrafa

Are you saying it was his fault we didn't create enough?

 

[POF]

You are talking absolute nonsense mate.


Hazard is only Valencia's man when he's working the right channel. We don't man mark wingers, he was central and he was Herrera's responsibility.

That's Hazard next to the referee and Valencia in the correct space to stop Fabregas attacking down the line.

That's Herrera by the ref inexplicably chasing the ball towards Oscar who now recieves it from Fabregas. In this situation Carrick or Blind would be keeping goals side of and tracking the runner, Hazard.

You can see here that Herrera made completely the wrong decision, running towards a player with two men covering him already, Smalling closed him down while McNair had him covered on his left. As this is barely a few seconds later Valencia is still in position at right back, there's no way he is expected to fall back into that space, it's Herrera's job to track Hazard.




Here's the video to see how fast it plays out. Valencia does try to cover for Herrera but as he was in the correct position to contain Hazard, he can't get back in time.


Long and the short of it, Herrera chased the ball rather than tracking the player. Put simply, Herrera is not a defensive midfielder and if we had Carrick or Blind fit we most likely would not have conceded that goal.

feck all to do with Valencia.

Good video and really illustrates Valencia's lack of defensive awareness. He made no attempt to get back when the ball was played to Oscar. By the time he tried to react to Oscar playing Hazard through it was too late. Shaw's position is a great example of where a full back should be.

That is now two weeks in a row when the crucial first goal in a big game came down a great big gaping hole in the right side of defence. Saying "he was nowhere near it. It had nothing to do with him" is nonsense. A back 4 defends zonally. He should be there. He has got zero defensive instincts.

 

[Pexbo]

Good video and really illustrates Valencia's lack of defensive awareness. He made no attempt to get back when the ball was played to Oscar. By the time he tried to react to Oscar playing Hazard through it was too late. Shaw's position is a great example of where a full back should be.

That is now two weeks in a row when the crucial first goal in a big game came down a great big gaping hole in the right side of defence. Saying "he was nowhere near it. It had nothing to do with him" is nonsense. A back 4 defends zonally. He should be there. He has got zero defensive instincts.

Seriously?

Shaw is where he is because he's on the opposite side of the pitch a mile away from the action and he's holding the defensive line.

Valencia is where he is because he had to step up out of the defensive line to close Fabregas' space down.

It's Herrera who fecks up. It really is that simple. People have such trouble being objective about Valencia because he is a cowardly shit on a stick winger. He just so happens to be a solid right back.

 

[berbatrick]

Seriously?

Shaw is where he is because he's on the opposite side of the pitch a mile away from the action and he's holding the defensive line.

Valencia is where he is because he had to step up out of the defensive line to close Fabregas' space down.

It's Herrera who fecks up. It really is that simple. People have such trouble being objective about Valencia because he is a cowardly shit on a stick winger. He just so happens to be a solid right back.

Valencia wasn't at fault for the goal but nor was he doing anything useful - he was not in a position to block Hazard (as we saw) nor was he covering Fabregas properly (neither when Oscar or Hazard had the ball). He was, as he has been prone to doing for a while now, ambling around.

I also think the definition of solid RB has changed while I was not looking - Brown was a solid RB, Ivanovic on the same pitch as Valencia today is a solid RB (and he was often 2v1 too in the 1st half). Where being able to tackle or intercept doesn't mean being out of position. He's an athletic RB who can charge into and out of position and barge people off the ball, but he's not a solid RB.

 

[POF]

Seriously?

Shaw is where he is because he's on the opposite side of the pitch a mile away from the action and he's holding the defensive line.

Valencia is where he is because he had to step up out of the defensive line to close Fabregas' space down.

It's Herrera who fecks up. It really is that simple. People have such trouble being objective about Valencia because he is a cowardly shit on a stick winger. He just so happens to be a solid right back.

Where was the danger? Allowing Fabregas to move down the wing or leaving Smalling as the only player defensively on the right side of defence?

The key to the full back role is sense danger and to be "on the cover". Herrera could have done better but leaving a gaping hole in defence like that is so dangerous.

Maybe the full back role has changed and leaving huge gaps is now accepted but if you are a defensive player you need to be able to see where the threat is. Valencia just doesn't.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Valencia wasn't at fault for the goal but nor was he doing anything useful - he was not in a position to block Hazard (as we saw) nor was he covering Fabregas properly (neither when Oscar or Hazard had the ball). He was, as he has been prone to doing for a while now, ambling around.

I also think the definition of solid RB has changed while I was not looking - Brown was a solid RB, Ivanovic on the same pitch as Valencia today is a solid RB (and he was often 2v1 too in the 1st half). Where being able to tackle or intercept doesn't mean being out of position. He's an athletic RB who can charge into and out of position and barge people off the ball, but he's not a solid RB.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Although not doing anything useful makes you apart of that problem. He was too wide, leaving a huge gap between him and Smalling and once Fabregas played the ball infield to Oscar he hardly moved to try and cover that gap. Sure Ander, Smalling and whoever could and should have done better as well but it is no excuse for Valencia's consistent lack of awareness and positioning.

With the play in front of him he is quite good, he can handle 1v1s as he has the strength and pace to deal with anyone and he is a decent tackler. When it comes to runs in behind and watching the play behind you he is near clueless. He doesn't know how to position himself for this and its why you often see him like in this incident turn around and doddle for a couple of seconds until he reacts to the danger. He is fast so he can make up for it sometimes but other times it is too late. He is pretty much the complete opposite of Blind.

 

[Rick88]

So posters here shall keep blaming Valencia for every freaking game. LvG playing him every match certainly gives you a fair idea as to who he rates higher. Unless there are some geniuses here who think they definitely know more than LvG. The over rating of Rafael and the underrating of Valencia is getting more tedious day by day. On current form Valencia is way more dependable than Rafael.

 

[Pexbo]

So posters here shall keep blaming Valencia for every freaking game. LvG playing him every match certainly gives you a fair idea as to who he rates higher. Unless there are some geniuses here who think they definitely know more than LvG. The over rating of Rafael and the underrating of Valencia is getting more tedious day by day. On current form Valencia is way more dependable than Rafael.

Couldn't agree more.

I started this thread to mock him this season and had been on his back for the previous two seasons for being a cowardly, inefficient and quite frankly, shite, winger. But I try to be as objective as I can when it comes to player performances and I've got a bit sick of having to defend him against a selection of posters that can't see past the fact he isn't a winger anymore and isn't expected to be taking risks and galavanting off to the byline at every opertunity.

He's been defensively solid for a good few months now but for an error here and there and the majority haven't lead to a goal despite what critics will have you think. If you forensically studied the likes of Ivanovic, Zabeleta, Clyne, hell even Lahm, Jordi Alba or Carvajal with the same tenacity you'd be able to castigate them every other game too.


Van Gaal is picking him for a reason and it's working as all the statistics show. If he decides there is someone better than him this summer then so be it but the butt hurt Rafael fans need to get a grip and move on. Either he's not right for Van Gaal and he's gone or he's not right for Van Gaal yet and they're working on it and he'll be back when he finally gets it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I can't see how he was to blame for the goal.

However, I wish he'd learn to fecking cross the ball. I mean it's hardly much to ask for from a guy that's been a winger most of his career. We desperately need a right back with a wicked cross on him. Would be such a huge addition.

 

[ZDwyr]

I am a big Rafael fan but I thought Valencia was fine. His first touch is really underrated too. Is always immaculate.

 

[ivaldo]

Thought this was one of his better games today, it was nice to see him actually step forward with the ball for once and use that strength and pace to take players on. He still just seems like he's unable to read the game though.

The mix up with De Gea for hand ball was his fault, he jumped in front of DDG

I feel a lot of the blame heading AV's way is unfair because the goal wasn't directly his fault, but an intelligent footballer would've seen the passage of play and recognised the danger. He didn't understand the build up or that when Smalling pressed Oscar there was a massive space in behind him that Hazard was running into, he just really didn't seem to do anything.

At one point Herrera played a poor, short ball to Valencia which Chelsea intercepted, it was clearly short and wasn't going to reach AV but he just stood there on the sideline waiting for it, he didn't step back into position nor did he step forward to challenge for it, he couldn't read it.

Lack of footballing intelligence is my biggest gripe with him. Things might not directly be his fault but he doesn't do anything to help matters, after all its a team game and in this system you need to rely on others.

 

[Eugenius]

I thought he was OK defensively but people are definitely right to point out the lack of positional awareness. He's just not a natural right back and when the ball gets played quickly around him we struggles with seeing the danger. He's done well enough but we need a new RB clearly if LvG doesn't rate Rafael.

It's also interesting to note that Monreal's goal in the FA cup, Aguero's first goal and now Hazard's goal came down his side. Yet there are some who insist that Valencia had zero fault in all these. Some even blamed Jones for his back pass in the Arsenal game. If there's an agenda as some people say, it's probably pro Valencia if anything.

 

[Lawman]

Thought he pretty much nullified Hazzard and Jose moved him infield as a consequence. The amount of stick he gets is unwarranted as he keeps a favourite out. But the reality is he becoming the best right back in the league under LVG.

 

[Eugenius]

Thought he pretty much nullified Hazzard and Jose moved him infield as a consequence. The amount of stick he gets is unwarranted as he keeps a favourite out. But the reality is he becoming the best right back in the league under LVG.

Best RB in the league, really??

 

[Pexbo]

I am a big Rafael fan but I thought Valencia was fine. His first touch is really underrated too. Is always immaculate.

The main thing he does so fricking well, and it can't be underestimated how important it is to Van Gaal's system, is offer an "out" to our defenders and midfielders. In fact I'm certain it's the edge he has over Rafael in Van Gaal's eyes right now.

As you say, his first touch is immaculate and his holding of the ball is the footballing equivalent of a dog with lock jaw. If a defender or midfielder on his side of the pitch is under pressure you can guarantee that he will be making himself available to them and it doesn't matter how difficult the pass is he will use one touch to kill it and hold on to it until he can find a safe pass. There's no way in hell Rafael can match him on that and when you're playing in Van Gaal's system and these players have the ball it's essential that they don't lose it because the team isn't in shape to defend.