I wonder why is that not a good thing.
Antoine Griezmann
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Maybe you've just caught him on a bad day, but he presses and closes down quite regularly. OK he's not at Suarez/Mandzukic levels but he is definitely a hard working striker.
Missed a pen in the CL Final, was nonexistent (through no fault of his own to be fair) in the Euro Final
Suarez went on that insane tear throughout the last 4/5 games of La Liga to secure the crown for them, banged the goals in all year long
If you think he has Messi and Neymar 'feeding' him goals, you must not be familiar with how he's played since moving to Catalunia
Yeah, this is the only way it would work properly. With Griezmann drifting a bit to the left, Mkhi drifting to the right and Pogba moving forward a bit in the space that's left behind Zlatan. That way it wouldn't be too much different from what we play today.
I have to add though, I wouldn't mind at all if Sanchez is the one we sign instead of Griezmann. If his contract negotiations with Arsenal don't go well we should be in for him. One year left on his contract in the summer, he won't be extremely expensive. He would slot right in that left inside forward slot, can cover 3 positions at the front, just turned 28, entering his prime...muppet inside of me is feeling good about it.
He's spent his break so far making the rounds in the NBA. Not sure if it's an Atleti or France Football initiative, maybe even his own marketing team thought about it. If he wants to fully break into the US market, United is the way to go
I'd say Suarez > Messi > CR7 > G7
Debatable, and you could argue either way I suppose.
The other day I read that according to the Guardian - Messi, Neymar, Suarez and Ronaldo had a better year that Antoine... yet Barcelona barely won La Liga, and got dicked in the CL. So the best 3 players in the world had each an amazing year, yet collectively they didn't win much. It doesn't compute. Internationally only Ronaldo won something of significance.
Done dealio.
As he is not a number 9 where would we play him? Pogba plays best in a 4-3-3, so where would Griezmann fit into that? We have Martial on the left and Mikitaryian on the right. Where would he play? The Euro's showed Pogba cannot effectively play in the same team as him.
Griezmann played as the LF in a 4-3-3 at real sociedad. Give him freedom and he'll find his position on his own
This lad could play anywhere in attack. If we are lucky enough to get him that is.
The 4-3-3 would suit him okay.
Presumably it would be Ibra up front backed up by Rashford and then Griezmann, Mkhitaryan, Martial (and either Mata or Lingard) fighting for the 2 wide spots. Griezmann has looked good at RW, if not balloon d'or good, when Atletico have played 4-5-1 and used Koke, Saul and Gabi as the central 3 with Carrasco out left and Griezmann cutting in odd the right wing. Mkhitaryan can play either side. His game is versatile. Could even end up as the 8 next to Pogba when you consider he was a 10 his last year at Shaktar and was compared to Lampard, who Mourinho loved in that role.
Pogba and Herrera and probably a new CM fighting for 2 spots with Pogba's starting place assured, then Carrick and a new DM fighting for that one spot. Probably Fellaini or Fosu-Mensah around as another CM option. In some easy games maybe that last player is dropped and another of the attackers gets the start. Back 4 behind this group of course.
Nobody talking about Chelsea as a threat here but he'd fit Pedro's role perfectly and would be worth spending their whole summer budget on.
Nah not really. If we're using a 4-3-3 he doesn't really fit in at any of those positions. He's world class, but in his right position. Otherwise he won't have a huge impact. Will still pop up with goals but you won't see him at his best unless he is the second striker.
Therein lies the problem, Pogba needs the 4-3-3 to be at his best.
This could work. It's similar to how we would end up normally if Mkhitaryan and Martial started on the wings, with Mkhi drifting inside.
Yep, this is basically the only way. Put Martial in for Ibra to rotate in for him and eventually when Ibra is done here. Obviously what I would hope we do if/when we sign him. Though saying that, we aren't exactly rigid in our lineups. For easy games we can easily get away with a 4-2-3-1, with Griezmann as the 10, ibra top, Herrera and Pogba in a midfield 2, mkhitaryan and martial on the wings. Harder games we need Carrick in the midfield for a 3, and that's where Griezmann will probably need to be shifted a bit to get it all to work. But that'd be fine still.
This could work. It's similar to how we would end up normally if Mkhitaryan and Martial started on the wings, with Mkhi drifting inside.
I there any evidence Griezmann is not good as a CF? I saw in the Euros how he was ineffective playing out wide but when has he played as the main striker?
Quite a few occasions for Atletico.
You make me sad.
Buy another destroyer in midfield and play the old Brazil 4-2-2-2
I haven't said he did not play well there. The sample size is too small to make a judgement. personally, I see no reason he can't play centrally in a fluid front three.
Jose now has complete control over transfers unlike at Chelsea, Real and Inter. He will not be making Marquee signings without a clear understanding of how they fit into the team.
No idea if Griezmann is really on Jose's radar but at the moment it seems an odd one for me.
No idea if Griezmann is really on Jose's radar but at the moment it seems an odd one for me.
There's a good chance we are after him. Just need to clear some cash off the weekly wage bill. Schweinsteiger, Depay, Schneiderlin, Fellaini and Young are eating up about £580k/wk at the moment and we can't continue to just buy expensive players whilst eating all that cash for players we aren't using. Once that's off the books, I expect us to go after a top midfielder and attacker.
But once all of them are sold we would have 4 midfielders (including a new one) for a midfield 3.
I hope we look at Strootman as a Carrick replacement and build around the starting 3 with Perreira and TFM. Keeping but not playing Schweini doesn't seem to be in the cards given his massive wages.
Do you think Strootman will still be able to do a job for us consistently given his injury record?
Is Strootman back to his best?
I hope I'm wrong but there is no way Mou is going to keep TFM and pereira as first backups
This could work. It's similar to how we would end up normally if Mkhitaryan and Martial started on the wings, with Mkhi drifting inside.
what a team.
knowing jose he'll bring in an imposing CDM to replace carrick as a starter and this side is going to be exciting.
^^
Unless Griezmann is shoved right up front and completely out of Pogba's area of the pitch, both players would be compromised and have diminishing returns in the same team. Pogba needs licence to roam and do his thing and so does Griezmann. Unless they developed perfect synergy, there would be a horrible realisation that one £89m player cannot play with the other £80m+ player without severely restricting their own game.
Pogba's uniqueness is actually part of the problem when it comes to Griezmann's nominal role, which is ironic in itself, but it should be evident that we build the team to cater to Pogba and his unique playing style and attributes especially so given he's not close to being the player he could be and as such should be given no hindrances to the long-term goal of extracting all his potential and expression out onto the pitch.
Bringing Griezmann in and then expecting him to conform to a role that didn't bring him his current status is grossly unfair on him, I think. To have to be a 'workaround' in a new team in a new league whilst being expected to deliver at a level befitting of one of the highest transfer fees of all time... what could possibly go wrong...?
I like the player, but if we're looking at Atletico, Saúl, Carrasco or Koké are all probably better fits here than Griezmann, unfortunately.
^^
Unless Griezmann is shoved right up front and completely out of Pogba's area of the pitch, both players would be compromised and have diminishing returns in the same team. Pogba needs licence to roam and do his thing and so does Griezmann. Unless they developed perfect synergy, there would be a horrible realisation that one £89m player cannot play with the other £80m+ player without severely restricting their own game.
Pogba's uniqueness is actually part of the problem when it comes to Griezmann's nominal role, which is ironic in itself, but it should be evident that we build the team to cater to Pogba and his unique playing style and attributes especially so given he's not close to being the player he could be and as such should be given no hindrances to the long-term goal of extracting all his potential and expression out onto the pitch.
Bringing Griezmann in and then expecting him to conform to a role that didn't bring him his current status is grossly unfair on him, I think. To have to be a 'workaround' in a new team in a new league whilst being expected to deliver at a level befitting of one of the highest transfer fees of all time... what could possibly go wrong...?
I like the player, but if we're looking at Atletico, Saúl, Carrasco or Koké are all probably better fits here than Griezmann, unfortunately.
I disagree fully I think we can and hopefully will play both in the same team. They will get used to each other and combine well and either one won't have a negative effect on hampering each other's performances. I think it's over cooked this theory. Both then will combine and work well given the time.
So AcquireMe thinks we're getting him. That's good enough for me. Welcome Antoine! Hopefully you'll be using your phones a lot.
Sorry, not having a go at you specifically, but this formulaic 'get used to each other and combine well' approach (quite prevalent in this thread, too) is a highly effective way of neutering your 2 record signings (who should ideally be operating at an optimal level), and how you create potential situations like Galacticos I, or Verón + Scholes - though Griezmann is more of a forward than that duo.
Griezmann is blatantly better through the middle than out wide - playing off the shoulder of the lead striker, and when he's used as the pseudo #10, he encroaches upon Pogba's zone of influence - there is ample evidence of that when they play together for France (who have to make weird arrangements like playing Pogba in a 2 when he's way more effective in a 3, and using Sissoko as a faux wide midfielder just to accommodate Pogba + Griezmann), and no amount of chemistry can make up for that functional overlap. You could go the diamond route, but it's not without its flaws in the Premier League - particularly given the emphasis placed on top echelon wingbacks in that particular scheme.
If Jose signs Antoine then he has a plan for him and how he can fit into our side, it's that simple.
Look at Neymar. His best position isn't out wide on the left but Neymar being there has helped make Barca one of the greatest sides of all time.
Pogba's influence may well not be at 100% but overall the side would be better for it. Evening out the resposnibility is a good thing surely? That's only if Jose hasn't got a plan of how to fit everyong in seamlessly.
Personally I would love to see Pogba play off a worldclass number 10, some of that interplay would be ridiculous.
Look at Neymar. His best position isn't out wide on the left but Neymar being there has helped make Barca one of the greatest sides of all time.
Pogba's influence may well not be at 100% but overall the side would be better for it. Evening out the resposnibility is a good thing surely? That's only if Jose hasn't got a plan of how to fit everyong in seamlessly.
Personally I would love to see Pogba play off a worldclass number 10, some of that interplay would be ridiculous.
It'd be as the false 9, where he can drop off and create space for the likes of Mkhitaryan, Pogba and Martial to run in to, that Griezmann would most likely operate for us if he did indeed sign.
Players either have that intuitive synergy, or they don't, and when they don't, you can spend years wasting time until the conclusion comes back to what we already knew. I'm not saying it definitively, but all evidence up to this point, is that these two don't work superfluously together.
Our sample size is their time together for the national team, and it can't be more than a handful of times both of them have truly shone simultaneously. It mightn't be the best indicator, but it's the one we have, and it's foolhardy to ignore it.. almost negligent..
Pogba needs to roam, otherwise he's being curtailed and his expression inhibited; Griezmann works the channels and roams for opportunistic space to exploit all game long, he takes up nominal positions Pogba often gallops into by default - how can you not have doubt that the likelihood of them getting in each others' way is as high for club as it is for country? For either one to not go into the positions they want to is a waste and a hindrance to them. You don't buy such players to under utilise them, surely?
there's no harm in believing you are the coach that can make something work that others cannot, but it's not the best approach to the market to have a renowned connundrum on your hands before the two even get out on the pitch. It would make Jose a marvel to use both optimally when all indicators thus far say that it's not possible.
Talk about a square peg in a round hole. If that one formation doesnt work with Griezmann in it, it would be a disaster. All the money and wages to get him to just find out he doesnt suit us well. After getting Pogba, i dont think we should be after Griezmann if i am honest, as much as i like him. I know people want him, he is quality and fits our squad and policy well, but i am pessimistic about fitting him into our team.
I get that Pogba likes to drift left and plays at his best on the left of a midfield 3 and that Griezmann has played his best football as a second striker but to say that a central midfield player and a forward cannot be accommodated in the same side is ludicrous.
United have played formations with 4 players in more offensive roles than Pogba this season. Often playing fantastic stuff with Mata as a number 10 ahead of him. If a top class coach cannot find a system to fit Pogba and Griezmann in then it's a major indictment of his coaching skills.
Formations don't have to be symmetric, especially with a full back like Valencia. Griezmann could nominally play right side and still operate effectively as a second striker.
For France, I think Matuidi is more the issue than Pogba/Griezmann. Playing a more disciplined player next to Pogba would balance the team far better.
Yep I totally agree plus I have heard the Gerrard/Lampard and also the Scholes/Veron debate being put in but Pogba and Griezman don't play in the same position. I get that they occupy the same areas but this could easily be ironed out.
I would love Griezman at OT and he would be another blue chip match winner (the more the better) plus with his will to win, work rate and desire. I think it is ano brainer if he is available to us.
Seems more like you see a brilliant player that is probably open to a move here, and you want him, logic be damned. Just ignoring the evidence up to this point in time (France) and saying things will be different... just because... isn't very objective or reasoned, is it?
I don't care if United play 4 players with more offensive roles than Pogba, or 5, or 6, or play him at centerback. Pogba is at his best when he's given the freedom to roam and improvise - he thrives on that, and that sense of tactical freedom is why he emerged as an elite player at Juventus - where Vidal/Khedira and Pirlo/Marchisio provided the platform for Pogba to excel as a dynamo, and the same is true at United where he's evidenced an upturn in form and offensive contributions with the backing of Carrick and Herrera. Whereas Griezmann hit his Atlético peak with deep central midfielders (iterations of Gabi, Tiago, Saúl) - who sacrificed a lot in their games, pressed and harried and with a tucked in Koke, laid the groundwork for him to pick his spots behind the lead striker - that just doesn't work well with a roamer in Pogba.
The classification of Pogba as a generic 'central midfielder' and Griezmann as a generic 'forward' is why their roles are misinterpreted. The same happened with Gerrard (another player who thrived on tactical freedom) when he was forced into a generic central midfielder role at Liverpool until the arrival of Benítez - who surrounded him with Alonso and Mascherano - which liberated Gerrard:
Champions League final where he helped revive the team after Hamann's introduction in the second half (after they got sliced open and were trailing 3-0 with Kewell playing as the 'forward'):
Strongly disagree with the 'major indictment' part wrt. coaching ability, too - it's not as simple as chucking two potentially great players into the XI and expecting the manager to find a way to play them at their highest levels, especially when they don't evidence workable synergy for France - relative to each player's best level. It would be akin to forcing a 'central midfielder' in Gerrard and a 'forward' in Kaká into the same areas, when they're bound to overlap unless Gerrard is curtailed, or becomes more tactically aware (Seedorf in Milan's Christmas Tree).
Disagree with the Griezmann on the right part, too. We have Mkhitaryan who transitions into central regions, and adding someone who offers decent creativity (but not great) and is also a good but not great dribbler in Griezmann on the other side will severely curtail the attacking potential of the team. It's not comparable to Messi and Neymar at Barcelona either - because they're both among the most creative players and dribblers in football (especially in comparison with Griezmann).
Also disagree with the last part. It's not just about playing someone who's more disciplined, it's often a numbers game in the crucial central areas of the pitch - you're still going to ask Pogba to track back more than he should, and most importantly - isolating the central midfielder (something we saw in the City game where we were all over the place from a tactical perspective as Pogba surged forward, and improved substantially with the introduction of Herrera as the midfield third).
Not to mention, De Bruyne had a field day in the spaces behind Pogba, and Mkhitaryan was forced central because we just couldn't handle their midfield in the first half:
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