Nonsense, you say? Then what is being discussed here if not whether Pogba's and Griezmann best positions are on collision course and one of them might suffer? Do you think Pogba is at his best when playing from deep positions? Positional map only refers to club games, that's why there a sum of 49 games. Where did I say that he's played only 4 times in a three man midfield?
Antoine Griezmann
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Nonsense, you say? Then what is being discussed here if not whether Pogba's and Griezmann best positions are on collision course and one of them might suffer? Do you think Pogba is at his best when playing from deep positions? Positional map only refers to club games, that's why there a sum of 49 games. Where did I say that he's played only 4 times in a three man midfield?
He's half slipped 100% of the time when taking penalties tonight. Do not want. John Utake on a free please.
I'm obviously nobody with any knowledge of tactics and don't argue my opinions hold any water. From my prospective, however, it isn't really about tactics or formation so far. The worst problem i see is cohesiveness, gelling, understanding between our players. I don't really see any fluidity between the gears and it's, sometimes, painful to see those 1-2 secs of hesitation before a decision is made by any of our players. These past few years have led to a squad full of new people who aren't sure how to play together. I don't see Griezy's position problematic at all nor i see him as necessary for our development. Sure, he looks fantastic and all and obviously we are on a football forum but, in my opinion, we overthink all these player features because without the team feeling comfy playing together nobody will magically make us super good. Not the coach nor any player. Consistency and stability will.
He's a great player obviously but he's not been all that these last couple of games against Real that I've watched (maybe he's dreaming of Manchester already) even his pen tonight was a bit shit, he does like to track back and works hard which Mourinho will like but over the last couple of champions league games the players that have stood out for me have been Bakayoko (feck knows how you spell it) and Isco.
The first post I made on this subject was "Pogba/Herrera with a holding CM behind them has shown they won't score enough goals to justify the type of system. I understand people think signing Griezmann will take Pogba from his preferred position but we gain far more as a side with Griezmann as a 10 and Pogba/Herrera behind than a holder and those 2 pushed forward"
To which you relied "When it has been shown as such given that Pogba has played as a CAM 4 times this season while their other midfield partner was either Fellaini or 35 years old Carrick?!"
That's where you said he's only played it 4 times.
Thing is that even if he has 2 partners in midfield doesn't mean he's playing as a CAM. I haven't been taking notes after each game but it's been clear to me for the whole season that Pogba's been playing under restricting instructions. That's why I've assisted myself with quite reliable whoscored stats where they've distinguished his three roles in United team this season, as a defensive, central and attacking midfielder.
The attacking midfielder spot I'm talking about is supposed to look like this and from my recollection it almost never happened, which is compatible with the cited numbers:
----------Pogba---------
--- CM/DM --- CM/DM ---
Except my post specifically stated Pogba in a midfield 3 with one holder not two which is also the system he played at Juve with Pirlo holding and is almost universally referred to as his "preferred position". So your entire argument is a strawman.
At Juventus it was LAM/LCM, but feel free to equate our midfield this season to Juve's from the last few years and Paul's role in both of them, since there are sooo many similarities. Good luck and good night.
Btw.LAM and CAM are quite similar, but eh... nvm...
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Griezmann is one of the most complete players in his position in the world and people are trying to say that he might struggle to play in the same team as Pogba 
Griezmann is a fluid forward; he can run into space like a no.9; he can get past defenders like a wide player; he can create like a no.10. He is in the same bracket as Neymar and Bale; he can play in any system and flourish due to his quality. Imagine if Juan Mata had pace, was good in the air and had double the goal output; he would be a guaranteed starter for Mourinho; that is what Griezmann offers.
Griezmann is a fluid forward; he can run into space like a no.9; he can get past defenders like a wide player; he can create like a no.10. He is in the same bracket as Neymar and Bale; he can play in any system and flourish due to his quality. Imagine if Juan Mata had pace, was good in the air and had double the goal output; he would be a guaranteed starter for Mourinho; that is what Griezmann offers.
I think Sane - Griezmann - Jesus works well as a front 3, if you guys have gone off him now.
Serious question here; Why are so many people adamant that Griezmann can't play as a lone striker? He's quick, good enough dribbler, holds up the ball well and can finish. Is it because he's never really played as one before or is it because people think Mourinho wouldn't want him as one? I don't really see why a player of his quality and skillset can't play that role for us.
In the way that Mourinho likes to use his lone strikers, Griezmann does not have the physical attributes nor skills to be effective. At 176cm and <70kg, he is quite undersized for the role of winning aerial duels with 6ft+ CBs and playing with his back to goal.
He never used Milito in that way, so it's not as if he isn't open to other styles IMO.
Yes he did. Milito, Drogba, Ibra, Adebayor and Costa were all used the same way.
The only striker he couldnt use that way was Benzema but perez wouldnt let him get a striker of his choice. The best he got was Adebayor on loan when Pipita was injured.
You've shifted the goalposts so much you might as well pack them up and take them home by this point. You don't even know what point you're trying to make or dispute.
People keep saying he can't play with Pogba... where did the BS start from??
-----------Rashford/New CF
Miki/Marital---------------------Griezmann
--------Pogba-------Herrera/New CM-------
-----------Carrick/New DM
-----------Rashford/New CF
Miki/Marital---------------------Griezmann
--------Pogba-------Herrera/New CM-------
-----------Carrick/New DM
The quotes from Griezmann and then Jose about weather. Jose's in particular were very pointed.
Because Griezmann would be wasted out wide and Mourinho won't be buying him to play there.
I'm surprised he hasn't been more heavily linked with City tbh. Maybe it doesn't sell papers or draw clicks.
I sure hope he doesn't, but it wouldn't surprise me for some reason if Griez was shunted out wide.
Mourinho will give Griez the license to cut inside and roam everywhere. Dont know why people are freaking out. Not because a player is positioned out wide on a tv screen that he will play as an out-and-out winger.
Valencia and Herrera can take care of that right flank.
--------------Ibra-type of ST-----------
-----------------------griezmann-------
lemar--------pogba-----------------miki
-----------carrick-----herrera----------
-------rojo-------bailly-----smalling---
pogba and griezmann would fit in any 3atb-formation because width is created only be one player instead of two in 433 or 4231. just saying
-----------------------griezmann-------
lemar--------pogba-----------------miki
-----------carrick-----herrera----------
-------rojo-------bailly-----smalling---
pogba and griezmann would fit in any 3atb-formation because width is created only be one player instead of two in 433 or 4231. just saying
I'm not entirely sold on him to be honest. Every time I've seen him play he's been a tad underwhelming. Maybe it's because I've had higher expectations but he just never seemed like the sort of player who could make the difference on his own. And for the kind of money that's being quoted, you'd expect him to be that kind of player.
--------------Ibra-type of ST-----------
-----------------------griezmann-------
lemar--------pogba-----------------miki
-----------carrick-----herrera----------
-------rojo-------bailly-----smalling---
pogba and griezmann would fit in any 3atb-formation because width is created only be one player instead of two in 433 or 4231. just saying
Barely any pace in that side.
This is very incorrect with all due respect.
Yes, we have been defensively organised in a few games (particularly when playing away to the big teams) but overall, United has attacked more this season. The main problem has been finishing. We have cut open defences. We have had more possessions than most. We have shot at goal than most. But we have failed to score. In fact, minus City and Chelsea away, we have not been out attacked. Arsenal and Liverpool away are debatable. We have also gone defensive when leading in a handful of games against smaller teams but over all, we have attacked more than defend this season and its not even close.
I totally agree that we need to attack more especially against the big teams and when leading smaller teams. But against both, finishing has been our biggest headache. Many of the problems we have had in those difficult games against the big (and small) teams, even while playing them conservatively, have been related to finishing. Imagine if Herrera had scored that glaring chance against City? Imagine if Zlatan had scored that glaring chance against Liverpool away? Imagine if Rooney had passed to Herrera against Arsenal away? Imagine if we had buried all those away chances against Anderlecht and Celta? The way those games would have gone could have been very much different.
If our boys had finished off chances, I am willing to bet that many threads here won't exist.
If this team fixes the problem of finishing, we will win the Premier League next season.
I don't mean hugging the touchline wide. I mean like what Mata does for us, comes inside and Valencia basically plays wide when we have the ball and when we don't have it he tracks back to support Valencia as he has the workrate for it.
Add Griezmann and Fabinho to our starting 11 and it looks miles better.
Jimenez, Griezmann and Fabinho and we will do very well next year.
This been posted?
I think the headline doesnt do the article justice as nowhere it says he wants to go to madrid. I do think those reasons are correct for him to stay at atleti. It has to be a difficult decision for him.
How true is the interview BTW? I found it on tribalfootbal but it quotes a good journo and the BBC.
I think the headline doesnt do the article justice as nowhere it says he wants to go to madrid. I do think those reasons are correct for him to stay at atleti. It has to be a difficult decision for him.
How true is the interview BTW? I found it on tribalfootbal but it quotes a good journo and the BBC.
Teasing again!
Not too fussed either way. If he comes then great, we have another wc\borderline wc player on our hands, if he doesn't then fine, we'll have a shit load of money to spend elsewhere.
My muppet-o-meter is very low on this compared to Pogba.
My muppet-o-meter is very low on this compared to Pogba.
Staying or United. If we win the EL, i think our chances of getting him should rise by quite a bit
That's not teasing.
This happened 4 times this season in away matches. Feyenood, Fenerbache (whoscored has it as a CM but other websites has him as AM), Liverpool and Everton. All these happened in the first half of the season, We won none of these matches and was very poor going forward(Except Everton). In a few other matches at the first half of the season, we played Pogba in that role in second half when we needed the goal like City freeing up Yaya Toure. Pogba offered nothing special. Its safe to say that Jose tried this with Pogba and failed in getting anything from that tactic. Our main issue is goal scoring, This is the reason why I personally would like to get a second striker who could score goals rather than using Pogba or other number10s we have. As that position behind the striker (Second striker or Attacking midfielder or number 10) should share the goal scoring and should be prolific in goalscoring/Assists, otherwise even with 25 goal main striker, the goal scoring of the team will suffer.
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Agreed, our front four often looks like they don't quite know what to do and it looks like they hardly have played together before.
I would argue though that our current formation and tactics is not a good fit for our personnel, especially those wide AM/pseudo winger positions where we don't really have the right players for. Add Griezman in the mix though, and it's starting to look a lot better
I still think Griezmann will sign for United, if United make the CL.
No chance Atletico will sell to Real Madrid. They're not like Dortmund are to Bayern. Atletico know the fan backlash they'd get, and I can't see Griezmann wanting to become a Figo figure.
Biggest threat to the signing will likely be him staying to play in the new stadia. Or city or Chelsea making a huge play for him. Either way, unless he really wants to sign for United then he can get to feck.
No chance Atletico will sell to Real Madrid. They're not like Dortmund are to Bayern. Atletico know the fan backlash they'd get, and I can't see Griezmann wanting to become a Figo figure.
Biggest threat to the signing will likely be him staying to play in the new stadia. Or city or Chelsea making a huge play for him. Either way, unless he really wants to sign for United then he can get to feck.
Not their choice.
Feyenoord was a real mess with Schneiderlin in midfield, Rojo with Darmian as FBs and a totally off colour attack consisting of Rashford, Martial plus Mata. Liverpool away isn't a great ground for United testing tweaked formations. About other two games, my other stat site scoresway.com displays him playing deeper.
All in all I don't think it's good enough as a proof against Pogba playing in CAM role when you've got his more convincing Juventus stint in the background. Like I've said before Poggy doesn't look good enough defensively to play in central midfield. He's good at initializing attacks but is the whole package witnessed this season worth that world record fee or even half of it? I hope it's temporary decision made by Jose that won't turn into permanent mismanagement.
I've covered how reaching high goalscoring numbers could look like on last few pages depending on getting right, but not overly expensive players. However with Mourinho in charge I've sadly got no faith in experiencing all of it in flesh. We'll probably be made to look like Chelsea.
Honestly, I hope you guys get Griezmann though.
Just so he doesn't go to Bayern and I know for a fact, Griezmann will flop at United. Also, to see how overrated Griezmann is.
Just so he doesn't go to Bayern and I know for a fact, Griezmann will flop at United. Also, to see how overrated Griezmann is.
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