Griezmann is overrated.
He will be another big name flop if he came here, especially with the current team. United need Carrasco a lot more than Griezmann.
On the same planet that Juve has been linked to Sanchez or who do you think Sanchez would replace.Probably getting overrated, definitely getting misconstrued (in what planet does he replace what Mandzukic does at Juve?).
The big issue is how he fits in the team properly. I see lots of talk of him playing wide and what not.
Will be interesting to see what José's plans are without Zlatan, but as it stands I don't think signing Griezmann would be his #1 summer priority.
- Would he be our best player behind the striker? Absolutely.
- Would he score a lot of the goals we have been lacking? No doubt.
- Would he perform at the same level as he does for Atlético or the second coming standards people are expecting? I'm not at all convinced.
How does he play at fullback?
I'm genuinely worried about how he fits into this team (if he is signed of course). I honestly think what we need is to get the basics right, sign the right players that fit and compliment each other very well. You see how France struggle with Pogba & Griezmann, Pogba is better in a midfield 3, and because Griezmann is neither an out and out striker or a winger, he's not at his best when France set up that way, when they get him in the middle, they play 2 behind and then Pogba struggles, it's going to take a work of genius (on the part of the coach) and sacrifice (on the part of the players) to get both playing well together in one team, and I don't think Jose has that level of sophistication these days or perhaps he was never that kind of manager (please this is not criticism). Left for me, I'll rather not go for Griezmann, what we need is a number 9 and a genuine wide player, not another "behind the striker" player that we will struggle to fit in and end up moving all over the place. We've seen it with Mata, and now Mhkitaryan.
Griezmann is already playing dull, defensive, counter attacking football with Champions League guaranteed every season. Will he be willing to change that for another dull, defensive, counter attacking side where he won't have CL football guaranteed?
For close to trippling his wage and further image rights deals on the horizon you'd suspect he'd be tempted.
I seem to recall him stating that money isn't his only ambition, he'd like to win CL as well.
He can probably get that same amount of money from PSG and allegedly even City is interested in him.
Then he'd probably go to one of them then? but thats not the question you asked, the scenario being, if we're the only ones dumb enough to stump up 85 odd million come the summer, and his option is boring football at Aletico or boring football here but on 3x the money... then yeah, you'd expect he'd still make the sideways (backward?) step on those terms.
Griezmann is already playing dull, defensive, counter attacking football with Champions League guaranteed every season. Will he be willing to change that for another dull, defensive, counter attacking side where he won't have CL football guaranteed?
He's a United fan and best mates with Pogba
But then again Pogba doesn't work very well in a setup that has number 10 in it. His attacking contribution is greatly diminished.
I seem to recall him stating that money isn't his only ambition, he'd like to win CL as well.
He can probably get that same amount of money from PSG and allegedly even City is interested in him.
I disagree. Pogba and Griezmann function quite nicely for France. Absolutely no reason why they can't at club level.
Griezmann also idolises David Beckham.
We have to win the Europa League...
Idk about them functioning that good for France tbh, since Pogba was invisible for France during the EURO despite having an awesome season with Juventus.
We paid 90 million pounds for a player that's essentially offensively oriented B2B player that ended up playing as a part of DMF duo where his main strength is greatly nullified. Surely if we spend 90 million for a world class talent that Pogba most definitely is, we're ought to build around him and play to his strengths?
Yeah Ik about him being a Beckham fan and wearing number 7 as an homage to him.
You see I have no issues with Pogba's first season like most seem to. He's been very good and some only really appreciate this when he's not playing a la yesterday.
In the summer when we sign another central player he will excel again. I have absolutely zero concerns about him and Griezmann arriving will have no effect on that.
I'm generally speaking satisfied with Pogba's performances this season. Could he have scored more? Yes ofc, if it weren't for his love for the post and crossbar, he most certainly could have.
Could he have assisted more? Most definitely but that's not to blame on him since he provided some excellent passes for assists-to-be if only we'd been more clinical.
I guess we shall see but I believe we're better off with redirecting that money we would spend on Griezmann, into buying some proper wingers.
Alot will depend on where JM sees the future of Martial, Mata, Mkhitaryan and Lingard.
Due to the squad he's inherited he has some very good players who don't really fit together up top. He's going to have to decide who he sees as a good option where an potentially move on a good player or two to gain better balance up top.
Yeah that is true.
I reckon of those 4 mentioned above, only Mikhi (since he's his signing) and Lingard (new contract signed) are truly safe. Mata and Martial on the other hand…
I think it's clear that Mourinho only wants to play a midfield 3 in the toughest games. In all other games, particularly at home, he wants to move to his preferred formation of 4-2-3-1. I believe he see's Pogba as potentially the perfect half of a great midfield two.and think he'll want to play in the majority of matches:
____Pogba Herrera
Mata Griezmann Mkhitaryan
______Rashford
With Herrera interchangeable with the likes of Fabinho and Mata/Mkhitaryan interchangeable with Lingard/Martial.
In the more difficult matches he'll want to go for something like:
_Herrera Fabinho Pogba
Mata Rashford Griezmann
Again with Mata/Griezmann interchangeable with Lingard/Martial/Mkhitaryan and dependent on Rashford's form Griezmann or Martial might play centrally.
If I'm right I agree with this completely. Our primary problem this season has been finishing, which Griezmann certainly helps resolve; our secondary problem is players getting forward to support Rashford, as he doesn't have the same hold up ability as Ibrahimovich. Again Griezmann resolves this issue.
The sad thing is a really like Mata and Martial it's just I can see why they would be moved on for the good of the squad.
I think Martial is the most likely to go but then he's got age on his side. Mata also seems very trusted by JM so I don't know.
What is apparent though is JM has tried a number of different set ups in those areas and we have failed to deliver. I'm certain that's due to the lack of balance and he'll look to correct this next term.
The first formation wouldn't pass Mourinho's defensive crash tests, moreover it wouldn't even leave the drawing board phase as it would be way too easy for our opponents to get thru that midfield.
Why do people insist on some very expensive as well as risky experiments. Griezmann as a left winger, Mata- a right winger, Mkhitatyan- a left winger, Pogba degraded to central midfielder with more defensive than offensive duties.
Sorry for spoiling the muppet party, but I don't believe in it being realistic and even though it might somehow materialize I'm quite certain it would be proven wrong.
Oh, I see. They have an attacker who does a Kuyt style job, are linked to a much better attacking player who also works hard. Why not forget the hardworking bit and start throwing up names of anyone who is more dangerous than Mandzukic?On the same planet that Juve has been linked to Sanchez or who do you think Sanchez would replace.
Seems some think all players must be replaced by exactly similar players in a starting lineup
What makes sense is that Mandzukic is a 31yr old playing out of his natural position, while there are younger talents available that are upgrades over him without necessarily offering the same thing Mandzukic has been doing.Oh, I see. They have an attacker who does a Kuyt style job, are linked to a much better attacking player who also works hard. Why not forget the hardworking bit and start throwing up names of anyone who is more dangerous than Mandzukic?
Yeah, makes sense.
No, they don't, but there's no room for Griezmann there. I'm not convinced he will fit right in for us, let alone Juve!What makes sense is that Mandzukic is a 31yr old playing out of his natural position, while there are younger talents available that are upgrades over him without necessarily offering the same thing Mandzukic has been doing.
Last season, Mandzukic was the CF in the squad, yet Allegri spent €90m on Pipita, who is a different type of striker from Mandzukic. Allegri changed the formation and tactics to integrate his new pieces and account for Pjanic in place of Pogba. If they dont win the CL, it will not be surprising to see him add another elite attacker to the squad. They are already planning to revamp the midfield.
New players dont always have to be like for like replacement, and Mandzukic on the flank, irrespective of how well it seems to have worked out this season, is an aberration.
Oh, I see. They have an attacker who does a Kuyt style job, are linked to a much better attacking player who also works hard. Why not forget the hardworking bit and start throwing up names of anyone who is more dangerous than Mandzukic?
Yeah, makes sense.
Griezmann is not as limited as you are painting him. Juventus have no need to be as defensive as Atletico usually is with their compact 4-4-2. I dont see the issue with Juventus having both Dybala and Griezmann behind Higuain in a 3-man attack (using 3-4-3 or 4-3-3).No, they don't, but there's no room for Griezmann there. I'm not convinced he will fit right in for us, let alone Juve!
I agree with that. My issue was the flawed logic whereby if Sánchez was a possible replacement for Mandzukic then Griezmann also was. Or Hazard while we are at it. The whole point of what he does for the team just got lost in the series of "upgrades".Sanchez is also hardworking, though, and definitely would be at Juve. If you want to make a case for Mandzukic providing something that better wingers can't, it's gotta be size, finishing and hold up play. There are left-wingers or 9s who can play there who work as hard and would create more. It's the obvious place for Juve to upgrade in the summer, and I expect them to, whether that's Sanchez, raiding Napoli again for Mertens or Insigne or who knows.
I'm not saying he is limited, just doesn't seem to be what they need.Griezmann is not as limited as you are painting him. Juventus have no need to be as defensive as Atletico usually is with their compact 4-4-2. I dont see the issue with Juventus having both Dybala and Griezmann behind Higuain in a 3-man attack (using 3-4-3 or 4-3-3).
I will say it again. He's a great player but it would be the most luxurious signing by us in years. He wouldn't solve any of our problems. He's a goal scorer but Jose doesn't play a system that will suit him.
433, he's not a wide player.I don't buy this @Mickfoley we could easily line up 433 442 or 4231 all of which would suit Griezmann.
I agree with that. My issue was the flawed logic whereby if Sánchez was a possible replacement for Mandzukic then Griezmann also was. Or Hazard while we are at it. The whole point of what he does for the team just got lost in the series of "upgrades".
Griezmann with us is a different issue as Mourinho has specific ideas on formation and tactics. While he can adapt when there are no alternatives, when given the opportunity he will quickly gravitate towards his comfort zone of 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 (for better or worse). Looking at what he has done so far, we are with almost certainty going to be playing 4-2-3-1 in most games and that would make griezmann as one of the 3 behind the striker, a role he can play. It is when you add the likelihood of Mopurinho get his big man upfront and having Rashford as LWF that the formation starts to lack the needed creativity in the final third (though it can be addressed by playing Griezmann on the right and adding a deeper creative midfielder like Cesc, David Silva or Ozil in the middle, similar to what Mou had at Inter with Sneijder behind Pandev, Milito and Eto)I'm not saying he is limited, just doesn't seem to be what they need.
Keep running into the same issue with us. José won't play 4-3-3 with a false 9. He would work great behind the striker, but that means a 2-man midfield for Pogba. In big games 4-3-3 would mean him on the wing, which he can do, and would do better than any of our existing options...
But that's not a side built around Griezmann or getting the most out of its parts. I would say hell yeah, sign him anyway, we need the goals against the crap sides... but would he? I can't see how that is a compelling challenge for him.
I will say it again. He's a great player but it would be the most luxurious signing by us in years. He wouldn't solve any of our problems. He's a goal scorer but Jose doesn't play a system that will suit him.
I don't think Mourinho sees Pogba as being "degraded" to a central midfielder. I believe Mourinho purchased him to be exactly that in the majority of games. His strength, stamina, passing ability are all perfect for that role and with maturity will come that extra discipline without comprising his creativity.
In terms of Mata/Mkhitaryan - they aren't "wingers" but are used in the system as inside forwards. Mourinho has used these type of players in that position throughout his managerial career... From Joe Cole 04-06 to Hazard 14/15.
The truth is though that we need a goalscorer who can come in and score 20+ a season whilst not playing as the furthest player forward. The sole reason Spurs are ahead of us this season is not because Kane has scored 21 goals - I'd expect any good centre forward playing 90 minutes every week for United to attain that. It's that Alli has scored 17 goals whilst playing deeper. The equivalent player in our system has scored 4 goals because he isn't tasked with getting into those positions.
433, he's not a wide player.
442, Pogba is wasted in a midfield of 2.
4231, he's neither a 10 nor a targetman.
He's a worldclass player no doubt about that but my usual pessimism isn't allowing to get excited over the prospect of signing him, hopefully I will be wrong though.
