The state of this forum!
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 11
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 0
- Status
The state of this forum!I feel like there are 2 types of people
Ones who feel he won't live up to his potential and ones who wish he will.
There does not seem to be in-between.
Martial " haters " are the ones who feel let down after his first season. I mean he won the european golden boy award and you had the likes of Henry saying Martial was better at that age. Disappointment in how he is turning out sours a lot of people s opinion of him. I've never seen any other player being so critisized over " overall body language". He also has a tendancy to go down easy when having a bad game .
Martial FC are still,maybe desperately at this stage, waiting for him to just take the step into absolute world class that his early talent showed. His combination of speed, size and unbeleivable close control on the dribble make him very dangerous in and around the box and against parked defenses where he gets loads of fouls, and should be able to propel farther than he has come on so far
Ones who feel he won't live up to his potential and ones who wish he will.
There does not seem to be in-between.
Martial " haters " are the ones who feel let down after his first season. I mean he won the european golden boy award and you had the likes of Henry saying Martial was better at that age. Disappointment in how he is turning out sours a lot of people s opinion of him. I've never seen any other player being so critisized over " overall body language". He also has a tendancy to go down easy when having a bad game .
Martial FC are still,maybe desperately at this stage, waiting for him to just take the step into absolute world class that his early talent showed. His combination of speed, size and unbeleivable close control on the dribble make him very dangerous in and around the box and against parked defenses where he gets loads of fouls, and should be able to propel farther than he has come on so far
and here lies the problem, the level's of sensitivity around all things Martial is disturbing.
You haven't been into the Pogba thread?
Martial is synonymous with the lowering over standards since fergie went. The bar used to be so high that someone so inconsistent and at times mediocre would have been send packing years ago.
However his fans still after 6 years cling onto the idea that there will be a breakthrough and he will fulfil his potential. He wont. He has technical ability and physically is fine but mentally is weak. He lacks the desire and determination of players with half his ability.
People on here gave dan james so much stick, but at least he always put in a shift and worked his arse off. Technically a limited player but bags of desire and determination that martial doesnt have.
City last season. He was actually decent against Wolves last game - definitely not a 3 out of 10
Yeah that’s the problem.That’s the real absurdity here.
he was good against wolves for 20 minutes and better than 3/10 if thats the measure.
His combination of speed, size and unbelievable close control on the dribble
The worrying thing is these seem to have mostly evaporated from his game, I don't know if its a coaching thing, a confidence thing or he just peaked early like some players do on these things.
The worrying thing is these seem to have mostly evaporated from his game, I don't know if its a coaching thing, a confidence thing or he just peaked early like some players do on these things.
There is an in-between. A mod replied to one of my posts on Marital saying that he was a good option to have as a back up. Which is fine, except I dont know of too many back up players on 200k a week. For that amount of money i'd want someone challenging for a 1st team spot, someone who can take the team to the next level.
He came into the season, expecting to be the starting center forward, now he finds himself in a situation where he is the 3rd choice left winger. I'd give him some time to adjust before making any definite statements about what he may or may not have lost.
He was quite good, but is that a Martial 8/10 or a general 8/10?
There is no need to poo on his better performances but was it really that good? If that is the highs we get off him, his best match in ages, he's definitely not good enough in my view.
Well he was also here last season and it was gone and even in 19/20 those attributes werent as good as they once were.
He isnt some dribble wizard anymore, which he definitely was. There were few players that could dribble (past players) at such high speed.
City performance was excellent. Plenty good enough. A general 8/10. One of the best players on the pitch. Arguably MOTM.
The problem is, obviously, how rarely we see performances like that. Although we did get a run of them towards the end of the season before last.
I think this is the main issue. He used to be really hard to disposess because of his unique blend of technique, speed and upper body strength, where as these days he seems to just meekly surrender the ball
Yeah, his dribbling has regressed so much.
It's a shame that you think everybody falls in one of those two categories. Surely, those that don't feel he'll live up to his potential would want him to?
Personally, he instantly became my favourite United player when he broke through with such an incredible combination of strength, athleticism, technical ability and finishing, at at time where watching us was a real chore. And I've backed him at various times of his United (especially under Mourinho). And while he had his best season at us in 2019-20, after the woeful showing last year, I'm definitely no longer optimistic about him fulfilling his potential. It's hard to be given how poor he was last year.
So yeah, immense natural talent but his United career seems to be on very very brittle ground. As it should be given the year he's had - at a big club you have to perform or be replaced. Hope he somehow shows his quality but he's not exactly started off like he's got his mojo back.
He used to be such a good tight dribbler. Best La Croqueta merchant since Iniesta. Shame it’s all vanished into thin air.
He bullied Diaz who many considered the best player in the league last season. It was a very good performance in general. Actually, his two displays against Leeds and City were probably the best we've seen by any of our forwards last season.
Of course, the problem as stated above is that those were basically the two instances where he seemed to be at top form. The other problem is his finishing which has been letting him down since the end of the 19/20 season.
That's the sad part about Martial. His ability with the ball at feet was special and it's almost vanished now. See the goal where he picks the ball off Depay and scores like it's nothing, the goal against Liverpool on his debut, rinsing fullback after fullback in the first year or so - all that seems a distant memory and with his move to CF he seems to have completely lost that.
These weren't even that rare back then. Coming off that effectively sure, but defenders were genuinely scared when he ran at them.
I probably need to watch it again, but I believe you guys if you said he did.
The statement about Leeds and City is a bold one, Rashford and Cavani had some awesome matches as well (Leipzig, Liverpool, Newcastle, Burnley for Rashford) and (Roma x2, Soton) for Cavani.
Really promising and exciting first season.
Brilliant second half to the 19/20 season.
In his now 7th year at United, that about sums his career up here.
Brilliant second half to the 19/20 season.
In his now 7th year at United, that about sums his career up here.
Yeah not sure that Martials performances being the best of last season, the City game he played really well and possibly gets 8/10 because he ran city ragged that day, maybe even a 9/10, but even in that game he couldn't take his on 1v1, obviously it would have been interesting to see what happened had he not got injured straight after, maybe his confidence would have flowed and he would have gone on a run, but after 4 in 22, its just as likely he goes backward again. He is here for 2 years now anyway, so lets hope he can somehow get back to being that player, because a 3rd choice LW on 200k is a waste of his and our time.
Need to get rid. We cannot hope to rely on miracles and players magically "coming through". He's not good enough and there are only so much excuses you can make for him being poor and none of them being any good. On top of that, his wages can go to an actual world class player that would actually play for the shirt and win us trophies. I don't really care if we sell him for free, it's still be worth it without him hogging the wage bill. So many players like him should have been rid a long time ago. This club's sentimentality and fan's low expectations of players after SAF is killing us.
'They're happy to be here, so they deserve to be here" mentality needs to go.
'They're happy to be here, so they deserve to be here" mentality needs to go.
The decline in that part of his game started before his move to CF. In fact I'd say that's why he had to go CF because he was no longer able to consistently beat a fullback.
It's true, but seems to have been cemented now.
He's an odd player. Technically so gifted with the ball at his feet (perfect for a wide forward), but also has the natural build to be excellent at holding the ball up (perfect for a CF) however he doesn't have the express pace that would be ideal for a wide forward and hasn't developed the movement and variety of a CF. He's the kind of player who you feel with a couple of key improvements could be one of the best in the league but it just isn't happening. In 19/20 I thought he had taken an excellent and decisive step towards the latter (top CF), his hold up play was excellent, he was scoring scrappy goals he normally wouldn't, got a hat track, 31 goal contributions and some good headed goals, but it's just all vanished.
Hopefully this year we see a return to form as it would benefit us big time.
I think Mourinho sort of killed that off. To me, Martial always struck me as a player with unuasually vulnerable confidence and great technical and physical talent. Nani is the closest resemblance in that. He looked confident because he did playful dribbles others couldn’t but that was because he was backed express himself like that in the extreme for years. Teaching discipline, when not to drible, chasing back when your legs hurt, going on run after run despite not getting the ball, demands a lot more correction. For players like Nani and Martial, I think that correction needs to come with more explicit care and security, or it hurts their confidence to the extent that their expression and hence talent suffers.
Van Gaal can be really good with such a player if he deems it worthwhile, but Mourinho can be a disaster for such a player. He’d treat Mattial like a son one month and then like an outcast thebext. Some people handle that, but I think Martial and Shaw showed how people are
Different in that respect. Martial was very good for Mourinho for about four months of the second season, then it went bad, and there are some things he lost in terms of natural dribbling and cheek, while he never really caught on in redeeming his weaknesses off the ball.
I don't think it is confidence. Nani perhaps even had more talent than Ronaldo when they were young, but talent could only get you so far. Some players are simply not driven enough. And Nani has no excuses of being 'short of confidence' as he had the best player manager to coach him. There are times he looked practically unbeateable, would make Messi look like a chump, but then the next game he'd fall back to obscurity. He had one-two amazing seasons, but he never could keep consistent form and that is, imo, for the same reason as Martial can't - they have talent, they just do not have the discipline to nurture it. There's nothing we can do, or anyone else for that matter, to make Martial play like a world class player, some people are just mentally built different. Ronaldo would have been the same as Nani or Martial if he simply relied on his talent, instead he is undoubtedly in top 2 of the best players to ever play this game. When they were younger, everybody thought Quaresma was the better talent of the two, but look at them now? Who even knows of Quaresma anymore? This is why we can't rely on Martial to "turn it around". If he had that ability, he would have done so long ago. Hell, he wouldn't ever have the need to "turn it around".
Reminds me of Ricardo Quaresma. Really talented footballer, with absolutely zero drive or determination. Strikes me as the type of lad who is just happy to cash the cheque & doesn’t want to go the extra mile to improve on the pitch. He’s lost an alarming amount of pace considering he’s only in his mid-20’s. Very strange.
Dont get me wrong, Ive got little time or patience for extremely inconsistent players and would gladly sell him tomorrow, but that was an excellent CF display against very tough opposition, held the line well, played others in, was a useful focal point, only thing missing was a goal.
He’s more like a Nicolas Anelka. Early promise never fulfilled and just not cut out for a top club.
Can you see Martial being excited about the prospects of learning from Ronaldo? I genuinely can't. He seems thoroughly disinterested.
Antunny
I think he’s going to hit form again. He looked pretty good and motivated v Wolves. Goal and chances in the France game. It couldn’t be more obvious he’s a total confidence player. Is that enough for a big club like United? Well everyone in the team has had their struggles. From Pogba to Shaw to DDG to Maguire and so on… it’s really up to him how he responds and time is starting to run out, like this could be his last season here. He needs to mature and get the bit between his teeth. He’ll be a devastating player again if he does.
Thing is I’m not sure he’s even a starter anymore with ronaldo and Sancho here. Competition is really good though. If one of them is doing a martial or rashford (second half of the season) we don’t have to play them in the next game and the game after and so on. It should, hypnotically, raise the bar by quite a lot. For that reason I’m really excited for this season. Players coming in grabbin their chances with both hands. None of this 20 games to get played into form. As it should be at a big club.
Thing is I’m not sure he’s even a starter anymore with ronaldo and Sancho here. Competition is really good though. If one of them is doing a martial or rashford (second half of the season) we don’t have to play them in the next game and the game after and so on. It should, hypnotically, raise the bar by quite a lot. For that reason I’m really excited for this season. Players coming in grabbin their chances with both hands. None of this 20 games to get played into form. As it should be at a big club.
If he hits form again, I think he's probably the best player for Ronnie to play off of. It is an enormous if though.
I agree with you on the ‘driven’ part. Some say a top athlete must be 100% motivated, and then they say a player like Ronaldo is 120% motivated, but that is off course an exaggeration. Truth is that only a few select are like 95-98% motivated for one thing, or megadriven, and most top athletes including Martial are more motivated to succeed than any of us fans are at anything, just not as much as Ronaldo.
I do think though, that that level of drive is not an on/off-switch - it’s affected by for instance confidence. Ferguson related how he understood after a while that Nani was different to players like Keane,Scholes, Becks in that he needed more of an arm around the shoulder than a bollocking, and then his drive and motivation rose - not to Ronaldo level, but to a level where he was one of our nost useful attacking players for a few seasons
Martial may never be able to be a Ronaldo, but at his best, and if he develops his tactical game further, he may be more than good enough to play a role in a top team. Mourinho gabe him the opposite of what he needs to be that guy. He improved again under Solskjæ, but he is vulnerable to a bout of bad form, an injury, a setback. If he overcomes that, he may come good for us again, if not, he could fall back to a Fenerbache kond of player like Nani.
I remeber in January I was quite optimistic of his chances to turn it around again, then he disappointed longer than I hoped, then he got injured. I am less optimistic now, but I haven’t given up totally.
I think you are being harsh here. There’s plenty of reasons to beat Martial down from the last year but he was the best player on the pitch in a match against City. That’s in a game with multiple high level players on both sides. I think that speaks to his talent level if nothing else. Stand alone if he played like that every week he’s easily good enough just as he was in 19/20 season. The issue is he hasn’t played that well consistently for ages.
How did he do for France? He scored a goal I know.
- Status