7 assists? He only had 5 assists mate.
What are you suggesting here? That he’s done good?
9
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7 assists? He only had 5 assists mate.
What are you suggesting here? That he’s done good?
I think assists cloud the judgement on players. You even see it on the scorecard, of who assisted. Ridiculous. Too much weight is given to it.
Hea striker, I don’t care about assists. His starts are.
5 goals in 15. That’s how he should be judged.
That's ridiculous and I'm not even a big fan of Martial anymore.
The Cavani goal against Everton was a indication of the 'Cavani should start every game' stuff because ultimately he may move around alot but our creativity isnt all that great except Bruno Fernandes. On comes Martial and he gets the match winning assist for Cavani.
Martial is a creative player and that's what he is even if he is a shit goal scorer or that he plays central because that's his best asset. He is able to create chances for people.
People's hatred towards him in the city match is a bit weird when absolutely no one made a chance for him to miss. What is he supposed to do? Make world class runs from shit through balls, shit short passes that are directly at Ruben dias and John stones with no strength? Just because he has a history of not making the runs 10 games ago doesnt make it a right of bringing it up against the match vs City when no passes were made from the best to the worst players all across the match. The fact that our best player was Shaw showed exactly what we were dealing with.
People just get frustrated over a course of a season and point a finger at a player in a match when he was maybe bad but not any bad than anyone else especially when considering Ole's poor use of tactics.
People are deluded thinking Haaland would have scored a goal against City because he wouldn't have. I want the lad here to give us a different type of striker in the squad, but to be angry at Martial vs City and say this is why he isnt good enough is bullshit.
perhaps I should have also put in a caveat of use your bloody eyes.
I haven’t made a judgement on martial in this post. My point is that assists are not how to judge a striker, and far too many people use goals and assists and combine them as one number - that I think is bloody bonkers. Perhaps I’m too old for that bollocks.
I don’t particularly care for stats. Assists in particular are used far too often to judge a player, when it’s far better to use your eyes and look at what they do on the pitch.
I didn’t read the rest of you post, as you are venting at the wrong poster
Discounting assists for the sake of your argument is more than a little immature. Whilst you're correct in saying stats come after actually watching the match, it seems in credibly opportunistic to discount assists so as to rubbish a player you clearly dislike. Assists are part of the game and the players who do it most often are usually excellent players.
Martial is a victim of his own talent. He looked so good in his first season fans expected him to go on and become truly world class. Truth is, he hasn’t been able to do that. Fans don’t hate him, they expect him to be much much better than he shows.
The criticisms, though a bit over the top, aren’t borne out of hate, but of frustration at his inability to be as great as fans thought and his talent suggested he’d be.
The criticisms, though a bit over the top, aren’t borne out of hate, but of frustration at his inability to be as great as fans thought and his talent suggested he’d be.
im not making an argument.
I’m just saying he should be judged on goals and your eyes. I love it when someone says “immature” as a way to discredit you. Poor.
Furthermore, he’s not a player I dislike. He’s ultimately not good enough to play as a striker in the long term - but don’t twist things.
assists aren’t a good judgement. They are dependent on someone finishing them, and what about the assist before the assist. Someone gets an assist for a minor touch, whilst another player could have carried the ball 60 yards. I’m very aware that you can apply the same logic to goals....
I’ve already made the point, that perhaps it’s because I’m old school, but that’s my prerogative and I won’t get interested in a discussion over whether someone gets more assists than someone. Whether that’s with Martial or anyone else - assists mean very little to me, and for clarification, that’s not limited to this thread, and again, I wasn’t even making an argument.
Don’t get me confused with someone who gives a shit about Martial FC and whatever the opposite is. Have that discussion with someone else.
I don't get the logic with giving massive importance to assists, either.
It seems to date from the 1994 World Cup in the USA, because American soccer had been recording assists since they started the North American Soccer League in 1968. Ice Hockey and Basketball also record assists.
We seem to have now adopted it wholesale...
"The Premier League Playmaker of the Season award was introduced in the 2017–18 Premier League for the player with most assists."
"Playmaker of the Season"? Righty ho.
As for Martial, I'm not sure he's a good fit for a top premier league striker. He seems more suited to the left wing, but on the left wing he's expected to track back, which is an issue.
Even without the goals I think he has had a much better season than Pogba for instance. I realise this guy is a striker right now and should score goals, but people want this guy out of the club, I don't get it honestly. He has had some pretty good games, and played well without scoring. He is a quality player to have at the club and I don't see him as someone who will kick up a fuzz when his chips are down. He has got a lot going for him though so this can be a good thing. We do need a striker that though and if we get someone like Haaland, I just hope Martial can be happy on the bench and play good when he gets his chance.
He has been shit(improved over the past month) but he starting to turn into a scape goat.
He doesn’t strike me as someone that would be happy being back up to another CF. Losing the number 9 depressed him.
I wouldn’t keep him as back up purely because of the wages we pay him. We pay him best striker on the league type wages. We need to recoup some money back from him while he has value otherwise he’ll run his contract down and leave for nothing.
His not our biggest problem and is a good player but we could and should do much better. We won’t get back to top relying on him and Rashford as our main two forwards.
I'd rather play him on the left, Rashford on the right and then swap Cavani and Greenwood through the middle.
thats your fault then. You don't go from their previous level to world class in just a matter of months. Even last season they had periods of uncertainty where they were criticised for not doing enough. World class is a way away.
I see the new thing on the caf is to add assists to goals to make the stats for a player look better than they really are.
Martial having 10 G+A (12 if you include fouls for pens as assists) in 19 appearances looks somewhat decent but doesn't even come close to telling the full story.
The glaring stat is that in 12 PL appearances this season, Martial only has a goal or assist in 3 of them. Simply put that is awful.
Martial having 10 G+A (12 if you include fouls for pens as assists) in 19 appearances looks somewhat decent but doesn't even come close to telling the full story.
The glaring stat is that in 12 PL appearances this season, Martial only has a goal or assist in 3 of them. Simply put that is awful.
That's a great point actually about the number 9, however I think what really pushed his buttons was the feeling he had to start over from the bottom. The uncertainty of it all and lack of initial trust. Mourinho weren't good for his development. Last season he played his first season as a striker without competition for his place. He should have some gratitude for the trust shown and know that when you have that privilege that it wont be accepted if you're not continuing to deliver. Ole is like Michelle Pfeiffer and anyone gets an A to start with but you have to work hard to keep it.
I don't think Martial will ignore this, he probably has to know if this season continues with him off form that he wont be awarded with another season as first choice.
I said ‘’to be closer to world class’’ not world class. Please read.
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He has 7 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/anthony-martial/profil/spieler/182877
4+2+1=7
I am suggesting that he’s had a poor start to the season not helped by having a 3 game ban for stupid retaliation but that he’s actually a key part of our attacking play. He draws fouls, holds up and links play better than any of our other options in attack and is creative too. He hasn’t been at his best and yet he’s still bringing more people into play especially since returning from his suspension.
I’m also suggesting that everyone is once again jumping the gun on him because yes the start of this season he was below par. I really do wonder how many people watch the games and understands that there are different ways to impact a game than just scoring a goal with a tap in.
Of course I’d love him to bag 30 goals but I still think come end of season he’ll have 20 goals in all competitions and close to that in assists too which for me is very good.
At Man united it's required to buy a consistent 20-30 goals a season striker, not give 6 years to Anthony fecking Martial to "prove consistency".
I'm having this discussion with you because your talking shite. You've disproved your own point in your rant even, by describing why assists are unreliable and then saying you can apply the same logic to goals, but then only judging strikers on their goals.
Do you think nothing of Bruno's assist stats?
I believe like someone mentioned above that what get most people frustrated with Martial is that they believe he can do a lot more than he is currently showing and i'm sure even his teammates think so, because you'd get several interviews from the likes of Rashford, Hererra, Shaw stating the outrageous things he does in training.
I am also certain this factors into the perseverance showed by Ole towards him because they all believe he has a high level that very few can reach. There was a period last season during the beginning of the post lockdown games to about the Chelsea FA cup semi final game where everyone thought it has finally clicked. He was working harder, terrorising defences constantly, using his strength better, linking up well with teammates. For me the Brighton match we won 3 nil was the one that most showed the version of Martial I think most want to see, although he didn't get a goal, he was just generally superb in that game, to the point he was even angry with himself and probably Ole when he was substituted because he had not got a goal. Then there was the Southampton one at OT where he was again superb, in short me and my other United supporting friends where just turning up to watch another Martial master class, some of them even believe he was the major reason we went on the winning run we did last season rather than Bruno.
But then since that FA cup semi and then the Europa semi, he has just not been the same. I had hope he would snap out of it during the beginning of the season but here we are almost halfway through the season and he still looks the disinterested version of himself. I believe if he doesn't improve before the end of the season even Ole would search for a more long term alternative, as he has been giving everything he needs to prove himself.
I am also certain this factors into the perseverance showed by Ole towards him because they all believe he has a high level that very few can reach. There was a period last season during the beginning of the post lockdown games to about the Chelsea FA cup semi final game where everyone thought it has finally clicked. He was working harder, terrorising defences constantly, using his strength better, linking up well with teammates. For me the Brighton match we won 3 nil was the one that most showed the version of Martial I think most want to see, although he didn't get a goal, he was just generally superb in that game, to the point he was even angry with himself and probably Ole when he was substituted because he had not got a goal. Then there was the Southampton one at OT where he was again superb, in short me and my other United supporting friends where just turning up to watch another Martial master class, some of them even believe he was the major reason we went on the winning run we did last season rather than Bruno.
But then since that FA cup semi and then the Europa semi, he has just not been the same. I had hope he would snap out of it during the beginning of the season but here we are almost halfway through the season and he still looks the disinterested version of himself. I believe if he doesn't improve before the end of the season even Ole would search for a more long term alternative, as he has been giving everything he needs to prove himself.
I feel like that a pretty old school way of thinking. Especially when so much is put in to analytics and goals/assists per minutes or even just key chances created per minutes are big parts of that.
Football has moved on from the idea of one main guy grabbing the goals and is about contribution. If say Bruno he and Rashford scored 20 goals each and had like 10 assists each that would be a great season. Especially if other areas of the pitch start chipping in with goals. The most important thing is the team and if assists created by people help the team or key chances getting created a lot by anyone on the pitch hopefully means the team is doing well.
Was it last season our front 3 were outperforming Salah, Firminho and Mane.
I’d honestly quite like Haaland here. I’m not sure he’d be the roaring success people think he’d be just due to how poor we are at creating stuff. If he did come, he’d I feel be better with Martial as in someone who will create chances for him as his own game is quite cumbersom.
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must take one to know one...
I don’t rate assists, I use my eyes. we all judge players in different ways. Get over it.
Go talk shite with someone else.
Guess what, I watch Bruno, and that’s enough to tell me how good of a player he is.
i’m not denying its old school. I may have even said so I’m a previous post. But that’s how I watch football, through my tired old eyes!
I don’t disagree that there’s a hell of a lot more to strikers than how often they put the ball in the net (unless it’s someone like Lukaku - as he add nothing else) just I don’t get excited by assist numbers - I find it strange for them to be celebrated, and even for them to be on some of the scoresheet reports.
our front three did outscore Liverpool last year.
I’d love to see Haaland at OT. There are so very few top quality strikers playing, and even fewer under 25.
I don’t subscribe to the “he can tie down that position for a decade” type argument that often comes with young players. But given his age, we wouldn’t need to think about that position for a few years at least.
Then why bring up Martial's goal stats at all?
im out.
Classic case of talked yourself into a corner with contradictory logic. You have a good day.
why even use the term world class? what does "closer to world class" mean in real terms? Surely just say you hoped they could "improve" or "build on last season?
World class does not need to be in the conversation at this stage of their careers
Classic case of I’m bored of arguing on the internet.
if you want to put a notch on your bed post and claim a ‘win’, then crack on pal
Problem is he needs a good run to get going as well, so I feel like he’s gonna mostly useless off the bench as well. Plus he seems to feel he’s above that. I’d be happy to move him on to be honest.
Jose was justified about him and rightly tried to move him on, glad he didn’t as we would probably have Willian on the books but this guy is a YouTube footballer he looks great every 4 games or so then meh for 3 games.
Don’t get me wrong he did well last season and I thought he would kick on again but he is just so inconsistent which is ok at 21 not at 25.
I understand against City Marcus and Bruno where just as bad but they have performances to fall back on. If Martial was having a season like Bruno or even like Rashford you would say “shite tonight” etc but that’s it. He’s been so poor this season that them performances are the norm.
If he starts or features tonight he needs a goal or 2 to get the confidence back but when Cavani is back he needs to benched
Don’t get me wrong he did well last season and I thought he would kick on again but he is just so inconsistent which is ok at 21 not at 25.
I understand against City Marcus and Bruno where just as bad but they have performances to fall back on. If Martial was having a season like Bruno or even like Rashford you would say “shite tonight” etc but that’s it. He’s been so poor this season that them performances are the norm.
If he starts or features tonight he needs a goal or 2 to get the confidence back but when Cavani is back he needs to benched
He wears the number 9 but that’s the only similarity he has to a centre forward. He isn’t a CF, he doesn’t know how to be a CF and he will never be a CF for a top team. He undoubtedly has the ability to create and score goals (when he’s in the mood) but he doesn’t possess the mentality, strength of character or work rate to be the focal point of our attack.
His ego won’t cope with playing second fiddle to a true CF or any attempt to use him as an impact substitute, which is really what we should have done by now, based on this season’s performance. Come the summer, I think someone is going to have to make a tough call about his future with us.
His ego won’t cope with playing second fiddle to a true CF or any attempt to use him as an impact substitute, which is really what we should have done by now, based on this season’s performance. Come the summer, I think someone is going to have to make a tough call about his future with us.
Man Utd 1:0 Watford
Why am I not allowed to use the term? After scoring 17 league goals & 6 league assists your next stage will be getting more than those numbers. Any players who can achieve that for the second time in a row is getting closer to be called world class. I’m allowed to have such expectation on 25 years old that have been in here for years.
Similarities with le grand sulk continue. A few excellent periods and visibly clear quality but never a top clubs starting forward, sadly.
Did you even read the first post that you replied?
Read and come back with counter that argument.
It's not an argument, it's your personal belief.
He's the one who is arguing with what you called my personal belief, that's called argument/debate.
They've generally been "shite tonight", but they've scored goals.
None of our attacking players have been playing well.
Ole should have started him yesterday and have him score some goals to boost his confidence. What is the point of wasting minutes on someone like Lingard who is not even got to stay. Wierd management that.
5 years from now, we'll still be waiting for him to show his full potential.
But no, let's keep a Striker who's never managed 20 goals in the league(and never will, really) to help us become a force for the league.
Right now, he's a serious liability. His wages for proving absolutely nothing mean he's never going to be an option as a squad player, so if we sign a proper 9, then he's got to be out the door.
I'm tired of the Martial fiasco now. There's a marked difference between him and players who want to be the very best. The talent is there but the application isn't.
But no, let's keep a Striker who's never managed 20 goals in the league(and never will, really) to help us become a force for the league.
Right now, he's a serious liability. His wages for proving absolutely nothing mean he's never going to be an option as a squad player, so if we sign a proper 9, then he's got to be out the door.
I'm tired of the Martial fiasco now. There's a marked difference between him and players who want to be the very best. The talent is there but the application isn't.
I haven't been on here for a long time. I see that at least one thing hasn't changed. Martial is still crap. I'm guessing the same culprits are making excuses for him.
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