[Hughes35]

I would definitely sell him to raise funds for a big bid on Haaland. Or offer in exchange if that was viable.

We cannot be relying on Martial to be our number 9.

He doesn’t have the mental attitude and desire to be a top level no 9 at a major club. I still think he offers more from the left.

Yea, my thinking too.

He scored in the last game and was one of our best players in the last game. The hate he gets is pathetic. Our whole team was shit today. Rashford has been a selfish prick last few games - has missed sitters but oh no he's english and runs a lot so let's not slate him. Bruno is having a horrid spell last few games and as a result, we haven't created anything.

Pathetic English bias and football IQ - people who have never kicked a football commenting on a performance in which we had 30% of the ball. He made countless runs but was not found. Yes, he was poor by his standards but the hate here is disgusting.

He would make you lot cry when he goes to a rival and performs because he's the most naturally gifted player we've had at this club since Ronaldo.

Running and workrate are very important parts of being a footballer though and are areas Martial fails in.

Saying Martial is the most gifted footballer since Ronaldo is either completely wrong, or even further highlights how bad his mentality must be to have so much talent and turn in such lackluster performances.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Martial should be a high impact sub not a nailed on starter. He certainly has the ability to change a game if coming on

Our problem is not having a consistent scorer. Haaland with Rash or Greenwood alongside could guarantee chances being converted

 

[Raven]

Yea, my thinking too.


Running and workrate are very important parts of being a footballer though and are areas Martial fails in.

Saying Martial is the most gifted footballer since Ronaldo is either completely wrong, or even further highlights how bad his mentality must be to have so much talent and turn in such lackluster performances.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Martial's work rate yesterday, he pressed as well as anyone else on our side.

 

[Raven]

Martial should be a high impact sub not a nailed on starter. He certainly has the ability to change a game if coming on

Our problem is not having a consistent scorer. Haaland with Rash or Greenwood alongside could guarantee chances being converted

I love that people are making guarantees about chances being converted by different strikers. It's as if we haven't witnessed Werner arrive in the league this season and be absolute shit. I think Haaland is a huge talent but just because he's banging them in in Germany does not mean he'll do it here straight away.

 

[Oranges038]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Martial's work rate yesterday, he pressed as well as anyone else on our side.

There's a big difference between pressing and just making a token run towards the opposition player that has the ball.

 

[Raven]

There's a big difference between pressing and just making a token run towards the opposition player that has the ball.

I meant what I wrote, he pressed as well as anyone on our side yesterday (barring Fred obviously).

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I love that people are making guarantees about chances being converted by different strikers. It's as if we haven't witnessed Werner arrive in the league this season and be absolute shit. I think Haaland is a huge talent but just because he's banging them in in Germany does not mean he'll do it here straight away.

I said could not definite. What is clear is Martial cannot be relied upon game in game out to take opportunities. Look at Son and how much he’s built on a good start at Spurs. He’s now simply the best striker in the league. The shame is that Martial has that ceiling too but shows it sporadically

Ps: Werner was never held in the same regard as Haaland. Just ask our BL observers

 

[hubbuh]

Yesterday we were just crap at doing basically anything. It could easily have been 3 nil to City. I can't remember many clear cut chances we made, or properly testing their completely noob goalkeeper. I find it difficult to criticise Martial for games in which the entire forward play of the team was shit. He held the ball up and used his strength. Did very little else.

 

[Nicolarra90]

He was quite poor in Mourinho's first season. But in the second he was easily our best left attacker (and our best attacker fullstop for a while). Then at the end of January we signed Sanchez, moved Martial out to the right for a couple of games (where he's never played well) and for the next 9 months he was mostly on the bench. When he did get a chance he was inconsistent and was bouncing between good and poor, but even that was better than Sanchez was performing. Finally in October (when Mourinho was about to be fired) Sanchez was dropped and Martial got a proper run again, and he was instantly our best attacker again.

Yes in a perfect world he would have been more consistent in those chances he got in those nine months, but it's hard to gain any consistency when you're pretty much guaranteed to be dropped for the next match no matter how well you play. Mourinho was an absolute idiot with his management in that situation, and he screwed over Martial, the team, the fans and ultimately himself because of it. If he'd played players on form instead of how much he liked them chances are we would have had better results and he would have stayed in the job longer than he did.

15/16 - played well
16/17 - started poor, got better as the season wore on
17/18 - played well, then wrongly dropped for no fault of his own
18/19 - played well, but missed a lot of games in the second half of the season because of illness and injury
19/20 - played well
20/21 - poor so far.

That's basically Martial's season wrap-up so far. The start of 16/17 and now this season are the only times he's actually played poorly when he's been getting consistent games. The rest of the time he generally hasn't been playing or has been in and out of the team through no real fault of his own. It's made his career look a lot more inconsistent than what he actually has been. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's been amazingly consistent or anything, but he hasn't been anywhere near as bad as many make out. For instance, up until this season he had been more consistent than Rashford over their careers here so far.

Nobody is saying he is championship level, but he is inconsistent because he gives us 5 to 10 world class performances a season, and probably around 30% of his games are 5/10 and below. That's not enough to be our leading 9.

 

[poleglass red]

His lack of movement in the box when we are set up to cross is poor. You see Cavani make that front post run when he plays, he gets/wants in front of the defender, Martial is happy to hang behind defenders at back post and against defenders as good as City, they will clear those all day long. He has ability, no doubt, we've seen that but he's not a centre forward for a top club in PL. His lack or unwillingness to actively press defenders in infuriaiting.

 

[Raven]

I said could not definite. What is clear is Martial cannot be relied upon game in game out to take opportunities. Look at Son and how much he’s built on a good start at Spurs. He’s now simply the best striker in the league. The shame is that Martial has that ceiling too but shows it sporadically

Ps: Werner was never held in the same regard as Haaland. Just ask our BL observers

Yeah could and guarantee are mutually exclusive, either there's a chance or there's a guarantee.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah could and guarantee are mutually exclusive, either there's a chance or there's a guarantee.

Semantics

 

[amsoUG]

As seen yesterday with Pep, it is not about who is your striker or who is your defender but rather do you have the ability on the ball to play with your mates.

Martial, Pogba, DVB, Mata play differently to Rashford, Bruno, Mason - the former want to work with the ball to play towards a team's objective (usually selfless), the latter want the ball to make individual contributions (usually selfish and glory hunters). Pep would sell the latter and keep the former group regardless of ability in the latter group -- and this has always been a place of contention with his management as he is seen to discard players who everyone else thinks are really good.

I like Bruno, Rashy and Mason but they have to realign their ambitions to be more selfless if everyone is to play (combine) well.

And why is Bruno always either in the wing or in the CF position? - possibly fears losing the ball in the congested #10 position. The coaches need to sort this out because our team shape is crippled by this - Martial is having to fill that void, only for Bruno to then go into CF - unless this role reversal is intended, it does not do Martial justice. Technically we are playing without a #10 and with a half 9.

 

[MattofManchester]

He was quite poor in Mourinho's first season. But in the second he was easily our best left attacker (and our best attacker fullstop for a while). Then at the end of January we signed Sanchez, moved Martial out to the right for a couple of games (where he's never played well) and for the next 9 months he was mostly on the bench. When he did get a chance he was inconsistent and was bouncing between good and poor, but even that was better than Sanchez was performing. Finally in October (when Mourinho was about to be fired) Sanchez was dropped and Martial got a proper run again, and he was instantly our best attacker again.

Yes in a perfect world he would have been more consistent in those chances he got in those nine months, but it's hard to gain any consistency when you're pretty much guaranteed to be dropped for the next match no matter how well you play. Mourinho was an absolute idiot with his management in that situation, and he screwed over Martial, the team, the fans and ultimately himself because of it. If he'd played players on form instead of how much he liked them chances are we would have had better results and he would have stayed in the job longer than he did.

15/16 - played well
16/17 - started poor, got better as the season wore on
17/18 - played well, then wrongly dropped for no fault of his own
18/19 - played well, but missed a lot of games in the second half of the season because of illness and injury
19/20 - played well
20/21 - poor so far.

That's basically Martial's season wrap-up so far. The start of 16/17 and now this season are the only times he's actually played poorly when he's been getting consistent games. The rest of the time he generally hasn't been playing or has been in and out of the team through no real fault of his own. It's made his career look a lot more inconsistent than what he actually has been. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's been amazingly consistent or anything, but he hasn't been anywhere near as bad as many make out. For instance, up until this season he had been more consistent than Rashford over their careers here so far.

I don't mean that's he's the worst p a yer in the league or that sense.
I mean he's poor to the levels that this club desires.
Yesterday was dismal, but while you can say he was good here and there, look at the attack we had, it was awful and I'd still disagree.
Under Mourinho, it was very much, 1 good game, next bad game, good game, bad game. He was very, very inconsistent, which we let slide because he's young.
The same with Van Gaal's first season. He hit up like a house on fire when he arrived and then tailed off massively at the end.

Martial is perhaps a decent top 6 player, but we need a forward that matches the best in the league now if we want to challenge.
He's had his chance, and he's failed to take it. You can't have such an unreliable forward as your first choice.
A 33 year old forward has shown him up for sheer influence on a game ffs.

 

[Relevated]

Hope we sell him in the summer

 

[amsoUG]

Yesterday we were just crap at doing basically anything. It could easily have been 3 nil to City. I can't remember many clear cut chances we made, or properly testing their completely noob goalkeeper. I find it difficult to criticise Martial for games in which the entire forward play of the team was shit. He held the ball up and used his strength. Did very little else.

Good quibble this! I think the digital age has made this generation so self-entitled with their opinions that they would want everyone else to fail as long as they can be validated or verified to be correct - pisses me off! People no longer watch football, it's the entitlement in them that watches the games and then come out on the digital channels to dump their frustrations (for not being validated) masked as opinions.

 

[elmo]

As seen yesterday with Pep, it is not about who is your striker or who is your defender but rather do you have the ability on the ball to play with your mates.

Martial, Pogba, DVB, Mata play differently to Rashford, Bruno, Mason - the former want to work with the ball to play towards a team's objective (usually selfless), the latter want the ball to make individual contributions (usually selfish and glory hunters). Pep would sell the latter and keep the former group regardless of ability in the latter group -- and this has always been a place of contention with his management as he is seen to discard players who everyone else thinks are really good.

I like Bruno, Rashy and Mason but they have to realign their ambitions to be more selfless if everyone is to play (combine) well.

And why is Bruno always either in the wing or in the CF position? - possibly fears losing the ball in the congested #10 position. The coaches need to sort this out because our team shape is crippled by this - Martial is having to fill that void, only for Bruno to then go into CF - unless this role reversal is intended, it does not do Martial justice. Technically we are playing without a #10 and with a half 9.

What a horrible take. You need your eyes checked if you think Pogba is playing selfless football.

Martial's biggest problem is that he doesn't show up once things doesn't go his way. Pep would have sold him the minute he got here.

Bruno is moving into the box because Martial consistently stays out wide to receive the ball without doing the damn runs he's supposed to do as a striker! There's a bloody reason why Bruno seems to be able to find Cavani through in the box when he plays and can't do the same when Martial is playing.

Hilarious how you think our best attackers should be less selfish so that underperforming players would get more chance to shine. You call it selfish, when in reality it's a desire to win.

We're fecked if Ole follows your suggestion.

 

[amsoUG]

You need your eyes checked if you think Pogba is playing selfless football.

Keyword used was: usually - and I trust what I see, Pogba and Martial will usually square it for you even if they can shoot. If you want to discuss Pogba, we can take this to his thread.

 

[elmo]

Keyword used was: usually - and I trust what I see, Pogba and Martial will usually square it for you even if they can shoot. If you want to discuss Pogba, we can take this to his thread.

Martial's statistically the best finisher in the club most of the time the past few season minus the shit show this year, he should be shooting more and not clogging the left wing.

What he's doing is sticking to what he prefers and not what's best for the team, it's the entire opposite of your definition of a team player!

 

[lex talionis]

Martian’s psyche is far too fragile for what a club like United require. We know about the talent, but we see too little desire and commitment from him. Once something doesn’t go right fir him he becomes sad and disappears.

He’d be an excellent option coming off the bench for us, but looking ahead to next season we need a new 9.

 

[Jim Beam]

I love him, so am actually biased.

There was a moment when we took the ball in our half and he casually walked just out of offside when we made it in their attacking third. Feck me, what a frustrating player knowing he has so much individual talent. We need a proper number 9.

 

[AgentSmith]

A world class talent with Sunday league application of it.

Martial could be as good a no.9 as he wanted - pace, strength, size, two footed, excellent hold up play with as good as dribbling as anyone in the league - but he just doesn't seem to have the mentality to do it.

If he could develop 50% of Cavani's movement and desire we'd be set up front for the next decade with him and Greenwood.

 

[amsoUG]

What a horrible take. You need your eyes checked if you think Pogba is playing selfless football.

Martial's biggest problem is that he doesn't show up once things doesn't go his way. Pep would have sold him the minute he got here.

Bruno is moving into the box because Martial consistently stays out wide to receive the ball without doing the damn runs he's supposed to do as a striker! There's a bloody reason why Bruno seems to be able to find Cavani through in the box when he plays and can't do the same when Martial is playing.

Hilarious how you think our best attackers should be less selfish so that underperforming players would get more chance to shine. You call it selfish, when in reality it's a desire to win.

We're fecked if Ole follows your suggestion.

This is childish and petty - so you waited for me to reply to your one-liner before you went back to edit it to blown out shenanigans.

 

[elmo]

This is childish and petty - so you waited for me to reply to your one-liner before you went back to edit it to blown out shenanigans.

I was editing it midway and only saw your reply after I edited, believe it or not.

I still stand by my viewpoint that your post is one of the worst take I've ever seen when you think the likes of Pogba and Martial should be praised over Bruno and Rashford who're actually making things happen.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I would definitely sell him to raise funds for a big bid on Haaland. Or offer in exchange if that was viable.

We cannot be relying on Martial to be our number 9.

He doesn’t have the mental attitude and desire to be a top level no 9 at a major club. I still think he offers more from the left.

That would be the ideal win/win in my eyes.

We get Haaland, Dortmund get a replacement (so don't need to get fleeced looking for a new forward) and some extra cash to improve other parts of their team. Plus I'm fine if Martial's a success there - don't rate him but not arsed if does ok elsewhere.

Martial + £10m-£30m depending on whether Haalands price is true

 

[RUCK4444]

That would be the ideal win/win in my eyes.

We get Haaland, Dortmund get a replacement (so don't need to get fleeced looking for a new forward) and some extra cash to improve other parts of their team. Plus I'm fine if Martial's a success there - don't rate him but not arsed if does ok elsewhere.

Martial + £10m-£30m depending on whether Haalands price is true

Yeah I would explore every option to make that happen, I would even overpay if need be to get him here.

We are desperate for a striker that can guarantee you 25+ goals a season.

 

[croadyman]

Yeah I would explore every option to make that happen, I would even overpay if need be to get him here.

We are desperate for a striker that can guarantee you 25+ goals a season.

Think if he didn't have that release clause then we would be willing to do that in order to fend off competition

 

[amsoUG]

I was editing it midway and only saw your reply after I edited, believe it or not.

... when you think the likes of Pogba and Martial should be praised over Bruno and Rashford who're actually making things happen.

Unbelievable! Which part of my original post alludes to praising any player?
No one is stopping you from worshipping your idols, just don't bring it to a footy forum, that stuff is for shrines, and possibly for you, it is the shrine of your mind.

This is a football forum, not a shrine for idolatry! I am free to speak as I deem fit regardless of any idolators.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Bruno is moving into the box because Martial consistently stays out wide to receive the ball without doing the damn runs he's supposed to do as a striker! There's a bloody reason why Bruno seems to be able to find Cavani through in the box when he plays and can't do the same when Martial is playing.

Well that’s not true. Martial links the play between midfield and attack and fills the spaces Bruno has vacated.This happens to allow Rashford to come from a deeper position and make his runs in to the box. When Martial doesn’t play and Bruno does his usual then we look like a far worse team as no one fills that gap that Bruno has left And we then struggle to maintain possesion and progress the ball in to good areas.

This tactic of Martial dropping deep and Rashford and Buno going forward is what was happening last season as well and even before Bruno showed up. Martial dropping deep creates space.

What Martial needs to improve is what happens after that as after he’s done this bit he seems to saunter in to the box. Sometimes he’s holding back waiting for a cut back or something but sometimes he needs to bust a gut and get his ass in the mixer.

Edit- I actually think the whole point of having Pogba on the field is that he is now supposed to fill the space central that Bruno leaves meaning Martial drifts left to become a LF, Bruno CF and Rashford as a RF. Against Villa that is what was happening and I think against City, Cities tactics completley just ruined us and they out played us.

 

[JJ12]

Should be a rotational option for striker and LW.

Not good enough to be ‘the’ guy.

 

[amsoUG]

Well that’s not true. Martial links the play between midfield and attack and fills the spaces Bruno has vacated.This happens to allow Rashford to come from a deeper position and make his runs in to the box. When Martial doesn’t play and Bruno does his usual then we look like a far worse team as no one fills that gap that Bruno has left And we then struggle to maintain possesion and progress the ball in to good areas.

This tactic of Martial dropping deep and Rashford and Buno going forward is what was happening last season as well and even before Bruno showed up. Martial dropping deep creates space.

What Martial needs to improve is what happens after that as after he’s done this bit he seems to saunter in to the box. Sometimes he’s holding back waiting for a cut back or something but sometimes he needs to bust a gut and get his ass in the mixer.

Edit- I actually think the whole point of having Pogba on the field is that he is now supposed to fill the space central that Bruno leaves meaning Martial drifts left to become a LF, Bruno CF and Rashford as a RF. Against Villa that is what was happening and I think against City, Cities tactics completley just ruined us and they out played us.

You are a proper football fan! You really watch the game, it doesn't watch you! Happy that you picked up this detail. Cheers mate!

 

[Poborsky's hair]

I would definitely sell him to raise funds for a big bid on Haaland. Or offer in exchange if that was viable.

We cannot be relying on Martial to be our number 9.

He doesn’t have the mental attitude and desire to be a top level no 9 at a major club. I still think he offers more from the left.

Does he have a value in the market? I feel like we're living in a bubble little bit. Not sure if there would be a team who would need a palyer like this and pay more than 30 mil. pounds. While Lukaku is a worse player, Conte wanted him so much so hes willing to overpay. But Martial? Not sure if there is a manager in the world who would like a passionless striker like Tony.

He's got another gear in him but which can he only activate if he works harder. I am struggle to see he would wanna change right now after 5 years here.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I still remember that miss against PSG. Does not have his shooting boots on this season.

 

[RUCK4444]

Does he have a value in the market? I feel like we're living in a bubble little bit. Not sure if there would be a team who would need a palyer like this and pay more than 30 mil. pounds. While Lukaku is a worse player, Conte wanted him so much so hes willing to overpay. But Martial? Not sure if there is a manager in the world who would like a passionless striker like Tony.

He's got another gear in him but which can he only activate if he works harder. I am struggle to see he would wanna change right now after 5 years here.

I'm not sure, he's somewhat of an enigma which will no doubt affect his market price. That said with West Ham supposedly paying 40 million odd for Haller (now sold him for half that) I'm sure there is a club out there that would fork out a decent amount.

I would be looking for 40 mil. and I think we would get around that from somebody like PSG or similar.

He's in poor form and I've stated I don't trust him to be our number 9 but last season he did score 20+ goals so I think somebody would take a chance on him.

I actually think he could suit Dortmund in some type of swap deal. I think Dortmund would consider it as they are going to loose Haaland either way.

 

[lex talionis]

If we can get 30m for Tony we should grab it. He’s had a few good runs of form but he’s just not consistent enough to hold the starting job. But if he’s happy to be a squad player for us, he’d be an outstanding squad player for us.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Does he have a value in the market? I feel like we're living in a bubble little bit. Not sure if there would be a team who would need a palyer like this and pay more than 30 mil. pounds. While Lukaku is a worse player, Conte wanted him so much so hes willing to overpay. But Martial? Not sure if there is a manager in the world who would like a passionless striker like Tony.

He's got another gear in him but which can he only activate if he works harder. I am struggle to see he would wanna change right now after 5 years here.

good analysis. If Conte wasn’t in for Lukaku, I think we would have struggled to get £35-40m for him

We’ve not really seen many big players move since Covid (aside from Chelsea) so it’s still difficult to judge the market. A couple of years ago, you had Everton buying players for £50m, times have changed dramatically.

he’s not going to be a player in demand, so yes, I think circa £30m is about right.

 

[Polar]

We cannot be relying on Martial to be our number 9.

Totally agree. Hasn’t been good enough this season to be our trusted nr.1 striker.

We all know his top level, but I think it’s fair to give him this season to prove consistency on that level - which is required to be a undisputed striker at United. When we come to may, he have had his chances. We cannot wait forever! Next year we are supposed to win PL, for real.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

People can try to defend him whatever you like but the truth is he's been underperforming especially for someone who is our 3rd highest wages, he deserves the criticism. After very good performance last season, I had expectation of both him & Rashford to level up their performance to be closer to world class level this season. Rashford is doing it but Martial is not, if anything Martial is declining.

Good hold up play is the minimum requirement to be United striker so him having good hold up play doesn't mean we should be okay with it. You need to do more than just hold up play, we are asking for more than just 1 aspect contribution. If he doesn't score goals, he needs to make assists, if you don't produce either then work hard when off the ball to press opposition defenders constantly. He doesn't do any of them, contributing very little and less effective for the team which also considered as part of the problem.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

People can try to defend him whatever you like but the truth is he's been underperforming especially for someone who is our 3rd highest wages, he deserves the criticism. After very good performance last season, I had expectation of both him & Rashford to level up their performance to be closer to world class level this season. Rashford is doing it but Martial is not, if anything Martial is declining.

Good hold up play is the minimum requirement to be United striker so him having good hold up play doesn't mean we should be okay with it. You need to do more than just hold up play, we are asking for more than just 1 aspect contribution. If he doesn't score goals, he needs to make assists, if you don't produce either then work hard when off the ball to press opposition defenders constantly. He doesn't do any of them, contributing very little and less effective for the team which also considered as part of the problem.

He has 3 assists and 2 goals in his last 5 PL games.

He has 5 goals and 7 assist from his 15 appearances as striker this season the only position he’s not contributed from is LW.

Kinda suggests he’s a striker mate.

 

[McGrathsipan]

He has 3 assists and 2 goals in his last 5 PL games.

He has 5 goals and 7 assist from his 15 appearances as striker this season the only position he’s not contributed from is LW.

Kinda suggests he’s a striker mate.

Imagine the stats he'd have if he actually worked hard.