[OL29]

I’m happy to compromise and say he’s not completely unwilling to fight for his place, he is a pro footballer after all.

But Cavani has come in and barely started, so a player like Martial should be going up a level with the threat of competition but he doesn’t - he has in fact regressed since last season. There’s clearly examples of this in the past even if you can poke some holes in them. He’s a real problem for us at the moment and it’s not down to quality, as we know when the competition is minimal (or Ighalo’s 5 minutes at the end of the game is the extent of it) he can be absolutely top class.

I just think in this case, correlation doesn’t necessary equal causation. I agree that his inconsistency is an issue, I just don’t think it’s fair to put it down to attitude. If you believe this forum (not you) every bad game he has is down to a poor attitude or laziness which is unfair.

 

[RUCK4444]

Haaland has Raiola as his agent, you sure you want that ?

Yes. Still 100% sure. He’s that good.

And god knows I can’t stand that fat leach, however I think we can potentially use the Pogba situation to our advantage. Let Paul leave on his terms if he nudges the striker towards us.

Food for thought at least.

 

[kouroux]

Yes. Still 100% sure. He’s that good.

And god knows I can’t stand that fat leach, however I think we can potentially use the Pogba situation to our advantage. Let Paul leave on his terms if he nudges the striker towards us.

Food for thought at least.

And what happens in a year or two ?

 

[RUCK4444]

Lackluster and a bit lazy looking today. Too many games he looks like he needs a rocket up his arse. He should study Cavanis movement and sheer bloody effort for the team and learn.

You will never see Martial put that much effort in, like a Rooney or Cavani.

This is the sole reason I give him more of a hard time than Rashford.

Because what it boils down to is that he doesn’t care enough.

I won’t forgive that.

Random example; Dan James is nowhere near as talented as Martial but he will give you his all, leave everything on the pitch for the shirt. This is the feckin bare bones minimum I want from any single player who wears the shirt.

Look at Bruno, he’s the new guy and he’s running the show but runs his guts out.

He’s a talented kid but you need more than talent to lead the line for this club.

 

[RUCK4444]

And what happens in a year or two ?

We’ve had two years of a five year contract where he’s been the highest goalscorer in the league, hopefully helped win us something considerable during said time and we still have three years left on his contract to get a massive fee if he moves.
Meanwhile Greenwood is rotating and learning to be ready if he leaves.

Win win.

Not to mention the Spanish clubs are on their arse at the moment with big rebuilds required, no saying they are a massive draw for him at that time and we can pay more wages than anybody.

 

[Zlatan 7]

And what happens in a year or two ?

I can’t see haaland losing value if he comes here. It wouldn’t be my ideal scenario but I’d take him for two years to boost our attack and then upgrade/ get to upgrade with the money if the time comes he wants to leave.

We can’t turn down that quality just incase they want to move in two years, football is a circus these days, probably best to join the wave while we are desperate and quite close to winning meaningful stuff again

 

[kouroux]

I can’t see haaland losing value if he comes here. It wouldn’t be my ideal scenario but I’d take him for two years to boost our attack and then upgrade/ get to upgrade with the money if the time comes he wants to leave.

We can’t turn down that quality just incase they want to move in two years, football is a circus these days, probably best to join the wave while we are desperate and quite close to winning meaningful stuff again

It's not about Haaland possibly leaving, it's about dealing and avoiding Raiola mainly

 

[Zlatan 7]

It's not about Haaland possibly leaving, it's about dealing and avoiding Raiola mainly

Yeah that’s not ideal to deal with. I’d be sick if we turned a player down because of an agent and watched him go to a rival such as Liverpool instead though

 

[kouroux]

Yeah that’s not ideal to deal with. I’d be sick if we turned a player down because of an agent and watched him go to a rival such as Liverpool instead though

I agree. More than anything I'm disappointed that Martial isn't building up on last season. I have never really believed he was a proper 9 before but I was ready to accept his possible transformation.
This season makes me think I was right all along

 

[Godfather]

Should be benched. Put Cavani up front, Rash on the left and Greenwood right.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I agree. More than anything I'm disappointed that Martial isn't building up on last season. I have never really believed he was a proper 9 before but I was ready to accept his possible transformation.
This season makes me think I was right all along

Same feelings regarding martial, the headed goals by cavani a few weeks ago showed the ruthlessness we miss upfront, and I don’t mean to bash our forwards by saying that, I just see them as wide forwards who lack that critical strikers edge, hopefully they learn as much as they can from cavani in the coming months.

 

[amsoUG]

Martial should have played better but the tactical set up did not do him justice - Leicester set up their double pivot to congest the 1/2 spaces that we like to play in. OGS should have brought on Cavani sooner, dropped James and let Martial, Rash and Bruno float behind Cavani. Also, Fred & McT were a bit timid and so far behind in their involvement which limited our combination play. We cannot just have 2 players whose role is to win the ball back, progress the ball from the defence and then sit back like centre backs, -- they need to get involved more in the attacking third.

For those saying Cavani this, Cavani that, please let's not create rifts amongst our players - we cannot just be this divided, and whereas some hate Martial, he is our starter and we should all hope that he performs well, same for any player who wears the shirt. Nonetheless, I think Cavani could still have scored if he was introduced early since their CB pairing looked weak and it was not tested enough.

 

[lex talionis]

I don’t give a feck about Raiola. If we can bring in Haaland at the same fee/wages we offered for Sancho we’d be insane not to bring him in even if it means consigning Martial to the bench as his or Rashford’s cover. Or selling him if his sulking were too much of a burden on the club.

We all know what Martial can and cannot do. He’d be a spectacular Ole, if you will, for us but he’s too unreliable a finisher to be our 9.

 

[amsoUG]

I don’t give a feck about Raiola. If we can bring in Haaland at the same fee/wages we offered for Sancho we’d be insane not to bring him in even if it means consigning Martial to the bench as his or Rashford’s cover. Or selling him if his sulking were too much of a burden on the club.

We all know what Martial can and cannot do. He’d be a spectacular Ole, if you will, for us but he’s too unreliable a finisher to be our 9.

Their terms (Raiola and Halaand) were not reasonable for an institution such as ours. They wanted to use us as his stepping stone with a very low buy out clause and so many other Raiola shenanigans. Ed would not budge. In other words, not a United sort of player.

I think the safer buy would be Kane - he would be a plug and play, also he would easily fit into Utd's traditions like he has been here for forever.

 

[ghaliboy]

Rewind to this time last season, when he would have these performances you couldn't even say "he applied himself and never stopped trying". Now you can at least say that when the ball was near him he tried hard. It's progress at least.

 

[Hawks2008]

Really inconsistent player, and at 25 he can't afford to be inconsistent any more. If we had a 25 year old Cavani we push for the league and I think that says a lot.

 

[11101]

Hes in a real rough patch of form. We cant afford to have him screwing up our attacks with his lazy passes but we have no alternative. Haaland is a must buy.

 

[eire-red]

I can't quite put my finger on it with him. All of the tools are there, it seems like the only thing holding him back is him.

For example, with his reluctance to run the channels today and his preference to drop deep, he effectively nullified himself from the game today because Ndidi and Tielemans were congesting that space that Bruno already occupies anyway.

The one time he did play on the shoulder, he was just offside but buried his chance. I think sometimes it's a case of sacrificing himself for the team. We know he's very good at what he likes to do, but he doesn't do enough of the work that largely goes unnoticed that Cavani does for example.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of off the ball movement that is generally off camera between Martial and Cavani. I really think it's the only thing holding him back. That desire to do the extra 10% and put himself out of his comfort zone is a real issue.

 

[charlenefan]

Atrocious game today, killed every attack he was apart of

Needs to sort his shit out pronto

 

[MadDogg]

You will never see Martial put that much effort in, like a Rooney or Cavani.

This is the sole reason I give him more of a hard time than Rashford.

The problem is that Rashford hasn't been any better in that aspect over the last 18 months. Sure he used to be quite a hard worker and pressed quite well, but that dropped off a cliff from the start of last season and hasn't recovered.

 

[RUCK4444]

The problem is that Rashford hasn't been any better in that aspect over the last 18 months. Sure he used to be quite a hard worker and pressed quite well, but that dropped off a cliff from the start of last season and hasn't recovered.

Really? I’m not a stat fan but would like to see if there is a stat to show this.

Rashford even when playing poorly runs the channels, tries his hardest, he made a load of runs yesterday and managed to get himself offside for the vast majority.

I suppose it shows in the amount of goals Rashford has compared to Martial, Rashford could have had a hat trick yesterday through getting himself into the game and creating opportunities, Tony tends to be completely anonymous when out of form.

 

[Bobcat]

Really? I’m not a stat fan but would like to see if there is a stat to show this.

Rashford even when playing poorly runs the channels, tries his hardest, he made a load of runs yesterday and managed to get himself offside for the vast majority.

I suppose it shows in the amount of goals Rashford has compared to Martial, Rashford could have had a hat trick yesterday through getting himself into the game and creating opportunities, Tony tends to be completely anonymous when out of form.

This. He has 1 PL goal this season.

Thats diabolical

 

[amsoUG]

The problem is that Rashford hasn't been any better in that aspect over the last 18 months. Sure he used to be quite a hard worker and pressed quite well, but that dropped off a cliff from the start of last season and hasn't recovered.

Rashford is playing with a few injuries, so it is proper that he is more careful to stay fit for more games than run himself into the ground. You saw what happened when someone just pulled his arm... he went down screaming.

I also prefer him to be fresher when he receives the final ball than to be leggy since tiredness can affect one's finishing quality.

 

[Lentwood]

It seems to me that Martial’s role has changed slightly this season, rather than being “just” the CF it seems he is being asked to drop deeper at times and provide a springboard for the wide forwards to make runs inside their full back - sort of like Firminho at Liverpool

I don’t know what’s causing Martial’s sudden lack of finishing ability as that was always one of his strengths. Maybe he is thinking to much on the pitch rather than playing his natural game?

 

[Highfather_24]

I also prefer him to be fresher when he receives the final ball than to be leggy since tiredness can affect one's finishing quality.

Same could be said for Martial.

IMO, both need to be more hardworking. And work on their finishing ffs.

 

[Matt851]

This. He has 1 PL goal this season.

Thats diabolical

Bit harsh to ignore the cl where he is joint top scorer

 

[Bobcat]

Bit harsh to ignore the cl where he is joint top scorer

4 goals in 16 starts is still awful. His link up play is not bad, but he needs to score a lot more

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Bit harsh to ignore the cl where he is joint top scorer

Martial joint top scorer in the CL?

What?

No he isn't

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Bit harsh to ignore the cl where he is joint top scorer

Who is?

Do you think you’re in the Rashford thread @Matt851 ?

 

[Matt851]

Who is?

Do you think you’re in the Rashford thread @Matt851 ?

Whoops my bad thought it was a reference to rashy

 

[Silverman]

His lack of effort is what frustrates me.
Compare him to those clips of Haaland absolutely legging it from his own box when Dortmund clear a corner and hit on the counter attack and it's obvious how much someone with proper workrate and drive would improve us.

 

[bond19821982]

Same feelings regarding martial, the headed goals by cavani a few weeks ago showed the ruthlessness we miss upfront, and I don’t mean to bash our forwards by saying that, I just see them as wide forwards who lack that critical strikers edge, hopefully they learn as much as they can from cavani in the coming months.

Both are different players tbh. If you want a Liverpool style attack, Martial is our best option (which is what I believe Ole is trying to build). A pure striker wouldn't be a good fit in that style of play.

Cavani can be a sub, a damn good one.

 

[Jonno]

Both are different players tbh. If you want a Liverpool style attack, Martial is our best option (which is what I believe Ole is trying to build). A pure striker wouldn't be a good fit in that style of play.

Cavani can be a sub, a damn good one.

Cavani can play the Firmino role no problem. Yesterday, prime example dropping into the number 10

 

[Zlatan 7]

Both are different players tbh. If you want a Liverpool style attack, Martial is our best option (which is what I believe Ole is trying to build). A pure striker wouldn't be a good fit in that style of play.

Cavani can be a sub, a damn good one.

I don’t disagree that they’re different players, I said I see martial more as a wide forward, he can still learn from cavani even if it’s just making runs from set pieces and when he is playing that central hold up role.

Re cavani being a damn good sub I totally agree, But I think that if he was 5 years younger and able to play every match he would be replacing martial there, no doubt

 

[bond19821982]

Cavani can play the Firmino role no problem. Yesterday, prime example dropping into the number 10

He can play but you are basically taking the best out of him which is the striker instinct.

 

[Lemansky]

If we are serious of becoming contenders again for the title the centre forward position that Martial now is occupying is a position we need to strengthen. So much talent, so little to show for it.

 

[Plymouth Red]

Jamie Vardy is 33, the same age as Cavani, whereas Martial is 25. Vardy needs 99 minutes to score a goal. Martial needs 406. Vardy needs 2.64 shots to score. Martial needs 6.

Here’s the source of these stats
https://www.fctables.com/jamie_vardy-vs-anthony_martial-253500-208851/

I have never seen Vardy play a match where he didn’t run his socks off, like Tevez used to.

I have never seen a game where Martial did.

One is the type of number 9 we need, one isn’t. I know the one I’d pick and he’s not French.

 

[hmchan]

Every now and then when people complain about the lack of goals, fans start comparing Martial to Firmino and talk about the Liverpool style. This is total nonsense. Firmino offers a lot more to the team with his (1) tireless off-the-ball movement dragging opponents away and creating spaces for teammates; and (2) frequent on-the-ball involvement in the game linking up play. Martial, on the contrary, is often a passenger and struggles to participate in the game. Goal tally is the only similarity between them.

Again, just take some time and look at our posession at 43rd minute against Leicester. Martial is straying and wandering at the halfway line throughout our attack, from our buildup at the back to the ball ending in the final third. It's not about body language or facial expression, he's actually missing from the game and this doesn't suit any style of football. Honestly I'm not a fan of Cavani, but he simply demonstrates how to play as a proper center forward with his limited time of the pitch.

 

[Stacks]

This. He has 1 PL goal this season.

Thats diabolical

Yeah it has been a bit rough for him in the prem this year. Has contributed a goal or assist in just 2 of his appearances but he has time to put it right.

 

[Raven]

Cavani can play the Firmino role no problem. Yesterday, prime example dropping into the number 10

Complete and utter nonsense. His touch is far too loose to play that way consistently, which is why he doesn't.