This is one of the most original ways to absolve Ole of blame that I've seen recently
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This is one of the most original ways to absolve Ole of blame that I've seen recently
IMO Martial drops deep naturally and links up play, no matter if it's 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. But yeah it wouldn't hurt if we push Bruno little deeper to help build up play and Martial to operate in that space, will give us better shape and also space for players to make runs from wider positions.
One thing (well one of many) I don't like is how our players are reactive in everything, they don't make many runs or don't anticipate moves. Always look 1 step behind the play, at least Rashford and Martial looks in sync most of the times.
Yeah, i've just checked myself.
There have been 17 games in the league since the start of last season where we're missing one of Martial or Rashford. Our win rate in those 17 games is 35% (6 wins), scoring 18 goals and conceding 14, thats 1.1 goals per game.
When we start both Martial and Rashford (27 games) our win rate increases to 52%, scoring 2.1 goals per game and conceding 35.
It's pretty clear therefore that when one of them doesn't start we're in trouble. Nothing has changed this season either, it might do if Cavani can get match sharp and start contributing but currently our attacking play is dependent entirely on Martial and Rashford both starting.
Anyone in stats know how many of our points during 'The Run' have come from his penalty wins?
Looking for as granular data as possible.
Looking for as granular data as possible.
I think it's 16 league games (not that it would chance much). Martial (6+3) and Rashford - 7
Yeah, your stats just shows how important they are, also games vs Chelsea and Arsenal showed how important Martial is and how much we missed his hold up play.
You're probably counting the Liverpool game when Martial came on for the last 6 minutes replacing Rashford.
Same as everybody else then.
Yeah, so 17 it is then.
Exactly so why are you choosing to avoid that context and focus on Martial? To my mind it’s simple, martial is still our most consistent and important attacking player and we have clearly missed him in the last few games.
This is one of the most original ways to absolve Ole of blame that I've seen recently
Is Ole at fault for Martial's petulance then?
If a player is unavailable it's part of the manager's job description to find a way to make the team function without them. It's not like we were forced to play with ten men because Martial was unavailable.
No I get that. We can still field 11 players in the games after Spurs. But people crying out for Martial do my head in. He's the reason he's not been playing. He's let us down badly because he's one of our most important players.
Because he was worse than the others in those games.
Its fine to look at our penalties but we have conceded penalties in 4 games too.
Most players react in one of two ways when someone puts their hands on them, like Martial did, or like a bitch, like Lamela did. It was hardly the crime of the century, the crime is we only have one proper holding midfielder and he's not mobile enough to cover the 2 slow, immobile CB's and Ole refuses to drop either of them, which in turn means he has to play 2 workhorse CM's who can't pass water, to protect them. Ole's biases are letting himself and us fans down.
Who's arguing otherwise? The thread gets bumped because in his absence, it becomes crystal clear that he is one of the most important players on the team, a nifty reminder to the anti-Martial brigade that's always trying to find a way to diminish his impact or can't wait to replace him. This team barely functions without Martial linking the offense together, regardless whether you have Rashford/Bruno/Pogba/etc.
Then again, it's Martial, he always finds a way to go missing in the early part of the season. I can't remember outside of his first season when he was firing on all cylinders from the start. He'll come around and be a key player again soon enough.
He was excellent at the start of Mourinho's second season right up until Sanchez replaced him. Himself and Pogba kept Mourinho in a job for a couple of months at the start of Mou's final season. He was also good at the start of last season but got injured.
He's easily one of our most consistent players.
It's an on one year and off the next when it comes to starting the season strong for Martial. Great debut season, out of shape and unfocused the second, good start in the third, then I don't count last season because he got hurt for 2 months then came back to be, for me, the most important player of last season. But the point remains he's always been hot and cold whether it's form, discipline, or health when it comes to starting the season well.
Ah fair enough. I just wanted to point out that that wasn't down to general inconsistency, glad we're on the same page.
Spot on.
Post lockdown, Martial was giving Rashford empty nets to score - goals that Martial could have tried to score if he greedy.
Probably the single most important player in our side at this point for the qualities he brings that the majority of our other players don't. Close control, quick thinking, hold-up play under pressure are all things that as a side we generally lack besides Martial and maybe a couple others. Really ready to see him back in our PL XI.
Oh you mean the literal one goal that Martial assisted for Rashford, which was against Southampton and was a finish from an angle whilst being closed down by defenders? Yeah huge open goal that one... and it would have been impressive for Martial to score that one considering he was falling over/being fouled when he was making the pass.
On the contrary, he's made for that statement. How people can watch Rashford and not know he's selfish boggles the mind
Why is it hilarious? Rashford continued to back himself to score from obscure angles 30 yards out....he makes the wrong choice, he has a perfectly positioned teammate and instead he goes for glory by himself. There's a line between the sort of selfishness needed to be a world class player and the sort of selfishness where it's detrimental, Rashford more often or not is on the negative end of it.
Thank God someone else is seeing it so it's not like I'm blind
The funny thing is Martial just a couple of minutes later passed when in similar scenario to this and what can then be a better representation of the difference between their mentality and playstyle
This is not to say one is correct and the other wrong, it's just a statement of fact
I don't have a problem with him shooting from there, my problem is he could have passed earlier before he went on that run and then at the end of that run. That's two times in a matter of seconds that he could have passed and didn't
I can guarantee that Martial would have passed in one of those two scenarios
And again, it's not a bad thing in of itself but it's not something to be swept under the rug either
It's almost like people forget that Martial didn't instigate that incident, he only finished it. Martial would never lay his hands on another player as he's too lax so I don't see why he should be scapegoated for reacting the same way as any rational human being
I bet if it was Zlatan, they would have made up songs praising his cojones for being all manly. In fact, a similar incident happened to Zlatan and his reaction wasn't instinctive like Martial but premeditated. Yet people glossed over it cuz its Ibra.
Add to the fact that VAR didn't do it's job as both of them (Martial and Lamela) should have been sent off and then it will have been a game between two equals and the final result wouldn't have been on Martial's head.
People need to start being g alot more objective on this forum.
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Funny.
Right.. because Martial has never not passed to someone who is wide open after going on a crazy run
Or taken on a difficult shot when he had a man in acres space in a great shooting position
Or passed to someone who would have an empty not to put the ball into and instead went for something audacious (and thank god he didn't aye?)
And you know what who can blame him? He's a striker, strikers are selfish... that's just how they operate. Frankly when we're 3-0 up and in the last 10 minutes is the perfect time for players to be trying things/going for glory.
Now hopefully that should put to be what is - quite frankly - one of the most bizarre arguments I've ever had on here.
That run against soton was beautiful. Need some more of that Tony ASAP.
Go on YouTube and you'll find examples of stingy play from just about any player especially strikers.
The issue here is whether Rashford is actually more selfish than Martial and if you think he is not then I don't think we can ever come to an agreement.
It's like me saying that Salah is not more selfish than Mane just because I can find clips of Mane being selfish.
Or Ronaldo is not more selfish than Messi (Real Madrid days) just because you'll inevitably find clips of Messi being selfish.
If that's your argument then I'm afraid it's dead on arrival.
Am I one of the biggest Martial fans? Absolutely, I own it.
What I'm not and strive not to be is biased and subjective so please feel free to peruse my past posts that point to me being biased if you can, hell, I don't even post often on this forum (except on my favs threads especially Martial's) so it shouldn't take that long.
I think for me there are moments that stick out more in past seasons in regards to Rashford in tough angles not making a simple pass for Martial, and going for the goal, in games where the game was still undecided, but I don't think Rashford is a selfish player, I just think he makes poor decisions at times in the last third. He's assisted Martial plenty of times, and vice versa.
I just don't see the point of having an argument on who is more selfish when they've both helped each other out tremendously last season in reaching their best output and whatever level of selfishness you see in Rashford, it's not egregious enough to be an actual issue for the team or Martial, who could be a bit more selfish himself as a CF.
No it isn't... Never has been. The issue here was that Rashford should be criticized for not passing the ball in that one instance and that Martial/other players would definitely have passed it.
Though changing what the issue is instead of having to admit you were maybe wrong on a point is a interesting strategy!
Then you should go back and read my posts before butting in
I can make as many points as I want to without limiting myself to what you want to talk about.
Go argue with those that are focusing on only that one instance cuz that ain't me
That's the problem with arguing just the single point over and over again, your points tend to get muddled up
Can we agree that Rashford is a more selfish player than Martial and whether he is infact a selfish player himself should be a matter of personal opinion
I've always stated that Rashford's style of play is not a negative for me as it's in a similar mold to Ronaldo and Salah and I'd give my right arm to have any of those two on our team
.... you literally quoted me?
My mistake then, you didn't butt in. I did
But my point still stands, I have varied points I wish to discuss so limiting me to just the one isn't a fair way to go and it seems it's better we agree to disagree on this issue cuz we obviously are not going to change our minds
No need. Just look back at your posts about guaranteeing he’d pass every time somebody is in a better position than him.
I probably would say both Rash & Martial are almost equal in term of their decision to pass or no, can't see much difference imo. There is only unselfish top striker I have ever seen so far and his name is Wayne Rooney. The guy would pass to his team mate next to him even when he was one on one with the goalkeeper and his decision making in the final third when he was at Rash or Martial age were world class already.
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