[tjb]

He got exposed. When Zlatan was here he had the argument that he was young( still pouted and made a big deal over the shirt number). Now, that excuse is gone.

Even though Pogba providing on an option from left makes us more creative, the evidence has been there even from last season( which was his best) that Martial still has not developed good off the ball movement. He waits for things to come to feet, but unlike Greenwood, he doesn't have the shot power, the strength or balance ability of a Kane or Zlatan or even the simple quick decision making of a Lewandowski or Suarez to make that form of delivery consistently viable. On occasion he can pull of a one-two ( very rare) or drive from deep( even rarer centrally), but for the most part passing to the feet of Martial is a waste of time. He had seasons to develop off the ball, its on him for not using the opportunity that soo many players wish to have. He's enjoyed the fame and patience borne from coming to United so young. No other team would have made him this popular on the back of his performances and no other set of fans would have been more patient with him.

 

[Giant Midget]

Don't think we're going to sell him, we're still short of a striker.

 

[MrBest]

Forgot he was out player, we have not really missed him. He has had an awful season. I wouldn't sell, good back up player for next year

 

[Robertd0803]

The fact that we havent missed him while hes been out injured says a lot.

 

[Raven]

Are people not getting tired of coming into this thread and copy and pasting the previous poster? How many people need to repeat we haven't missed him?

 

[Kostov]

Are people not getting tired of coming into this thread and copy and pasting the previous poster? How many people need to repeat we haven't missed him?

We haven't missed him, but we will in the next 4 days.

 

[theklr]

The fact that we havent missed him while hes been out injured says a lot.

More importantly it will say alot for him as well.

He will feel his no1 striker spot, which was too safe for him before, slipping away , and he'll do everything he can to retain it.

So I think we'll see a hungrier and more focused Martial next season, because of the competition - just like we did with Shaw.

Not to mention Haaland will be possible to get the season after next. He just need to learn from Cavani as much as he can.

And he was our top scorer last season, so its not impossible he can get back to that.

 

[Gurtej]

Is there any chance of 100m plus Martial for Halland....

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He's back in training isn't he?

Could really do with him to play a part in the next 4 league games for sure.

 

[Bwuk]

Just don’t see where he fits in anymore. He doesn’t start for us if everyone is fit either off the left or upfront.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's back in training isn't he?

Could really do with him to play a part in the next 4 league games for sure.

Stick him up front tomorrow. On a crutch, if necessary.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Is there any chance of 100m plus Martial for Halland....

Or £110m for Haaland…

the issue with Martial is that he’s on a big wage, so don’t see him going to somewhere like Dortmund. Besides, swap deals very rarely come off.

 

[VP89]

He's on what, 200k a week too.

 

[Renegade]

PSG would be great for all parties. He’d smash it there. It’s his home country and a “big side” who could pay his ridiculous wage.

 

[Foxbatt]

Is he fit now or is he still injured? I am sure he would have played if he was fit. Rashford needs a break.

 

[tjb]

PSG would be great for all parties. He’d smash it there. It’s his home country and a “big side” who could pay his ridiculous wage.

Martial for Paredes. Simple.

 

[Deleted 112447]

Scored 23 goals last season and 12 assists, 35 goal contributions, his best ever. Some of you lot have the memory of gold fish. Had a poor season this time around but will be here splitting playing time with Cavani next term. Probably as a starter with Cavani coming in the second half.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

More importantly it will say alot for him as well.

He will feel his no1 striker spot, which was too safe for him before, slipping away , and he'll do everything he can to retain it.

So I think we'll see a hungrier and more focused Martial next season, because of the competition - just like we did with Shaw.

Not to mention Haaland will be possible to get the season after next. He just need to learn from Cavani as much as he can.

And he was our top scorer last season, so its not impossible he can get back to that.

I just dont see it, I think its more likely he will pout and sulk and stroll around like a butthurt teenager because he isnt first choice.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I just dont see it, I think its more likely he will pout and sulk and stroll around like a butthurt teenager because he isnt first choice.

It would appear to be the most likely scenario based on his previous.

if he did dig in, fight for his place and grow a backbone - he would be a great asset next season.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

It would appear to be the most likely scenario based on his previous.

if he did dig in, fight for his place and grow a backbone - he would be a great asset next season.

Absolutely, when he is up for it he is deadly, its his determination or lack thereof that lets him down

 

[pierrethesnack]

I just dont see it, I think its more likely he will pout and sulk and stroll around like a butthurt teenager because he isnt first choice.

I think so too, but if Ole believes in him and thinks he can get the best out of him, that's good enough for me. Seems to be a good judge of character, our non-elite level manager

 

[Raven]

I think so too, but if Ole believes in him and thinks he can get the best out of him, that's good enough for me. Seems to be a good judge of character, our non-elite level manager

This is a good point, Ole is patient with the players he feels have the potential. If he's kept around it will be for good reason.

 

[Dr Foo]

I think it's all mental for Martial. If he can get his head right and emotions/personal issues in place, there is a chance he could get back to last season's form, at least I hope so. That's the only reason we will keep him if a Kane level striker is not attainable. He was clearly fired up last season and was the key in our fluid attack (including hold up play, linking with Rashford, pressing more and showing signs of growing into a no.9).

 

[VP89]

I think it's all mental for Martial. If he can get his head right and emotions/personal issues in place, there is a chance he could get back to last season's form, at least I hope so. That's the only reason we will keep him if a Kane level striker is not attainable. He was clearly fired up last season and was the key in our fluid attack (including hold up play, linking with Rashford, pressing more and showing signs of growing into a no.9).

Nah, it's not a mental block in my opinion. He's just not a center forward and never was.

 

[Eugenius]

Nah, it's not a mental block in my opinion. He's just not a center forward and never was.

He was scoring good CF goals last year.

 

[villain]

The disrespect of Martial is too much.
People are seriously calling for us to sell him when we barely have good enough squad depth as it is.

He's having a bad season, that's all - he should be nowhere near the first that we get rid of.

 

[VP89]

He was scoring good CF goals last year.

That doesn't mean he's a good long term striker. He's proven countless times to be inadequate in that role.

The disrespect of Martial is too much.
People are seriously calling for us to sell him when we barely have good enough squad depth as it is.

He's having a bad season, that's all - he should be nowhere near the first that we get rid of.

His squad status and contract doesn't justify keeping him. He's on more than he's worth and if Sancho were to arrive, he wouldn't make our first XI. I can understand keeping him to be a LW option, but that's about it.

And that evaluation is not disrespectful at all, it's pretty fair.

 

[snk123]

Idiots out in full force because we started playing good football after Pogba's return. Martial would have scored half a dozen goals more had he not been injured. Before that every forward was struggling including Cavani - but yeah, fecking gold fish memories.

 

[villain]

His squad status and contract doesn't justify keeping him. He's on more than he's worth and if Sancho were to arrive, he wouldn't make our first XI. I can understand keeping him to be a LW option, but that's about it.

And that evaluation is not disrespectful at all, it's pretty fair.

His contract is justified because he's a worthy contributor to our squad, and has been for his entire career with us - so yes it is disrespectful because throughout our transition from being terrible, to average, to now quite good - he's managed to remain consistent.
This year has been bad but not terrible, most of our players were struggling earlier in the season, and as the squad has gotten better, he's unfortunately been injured so hasn't benefitted from it. Our fans have such short memories.

Also it's such a ridiculous argument because nobody can actually find validity in how much our players are paid, because often times the media will spew out a number that they get paid inclusive of all bonuses, and that number changes all the time. Unless you've got a source which shows exactly how his contract is broken down? With comparisons for the rest of the squad too, because my guess is that he's paid similarly in line with Rashford which makes sense.

Beyond that, why are people questioning who will make the squad if we continue to improve the squad? It's so redundant. If Mahrez is injured, City can play Sterling, Silva, KDB, Foden etc. If we get Sancho there will be games that Rashford misses, games Martial misses, games Sancho misses, games Greenwood misses etc - but that's the point having great squad depth. If we start selling our better players, and keep hold of our deadwood we won't reach the next level.

 

[Foxbatt]

Is he still out injured?

 

[Dr Foo]

Nah, it's not a mental block in my opinion. He's just not a center forward and never was.

I think he showed last season that he can be a decent option there and interchanging with Rashford to devastating effect. Before that, I would have agreed with you. He's worth keeping unless we can find a world-class upgrade. I get the frustrations with his steep drop off this season though

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Idiots out in full force because we started playing good football after Pogba's return. Martial would have scored half a dozen goals more had he not been injured. Before that every forward was struggling including Cavani - but yeah, fecking gold fish memories.

Hehe. You know Pogba was playing for us before he got injured too?

 

[VP89]

His contract is justified because he's a worthy contributor to our squad, and has been for his entire career with us - so yes it is disrespectful because throughout our transition from being terrible, to average, to now quite good - he's managed to remain consistent.

He's on what, 250k a week? Which even at the time, I thought was overcooked. And right now? He's no way near that wage. That's not his fault of course so I'm not making this as an attack on Martial. Rather I think there is a better solution to be considered economically.

There's nothing disrespectful about saying a player who has not been able to put 250k worth of appearances in over his tenure, that he's not worth that much a week. His contract is a reflection of his status being a key player, which after a Sancho signing I believe will no longer be the case as he will struggle to get into the first XI. Prior to last season, he was underachieving on/off. Last season he did very well, and this season he was atrocious. That is not the barometer of a United 9, and ironically it's disrespectful to the shirt to claim otherwise.

This year has been bad but not terrible, most of our players were struggling earlier in the season, and as the squad has gotten better, he's unfortunately been injured so hasn't benefitted from it. Our fans have such short memories.

This year he's been shite. Last year he was very good. The years before he was inconsistent, for some reasons that were beyond him (the manager) but also reasons that were down to him (lack of movement in the box, not making enough runs behind players, inability to react positively to competition). There is no short term thinking from me here.

Also it's such a ridiculous argument because nobody can actually find validity in how much our players are paid, because often times the media will spew out a number that they get paid inclusive of all bonuses, and that number changes all the time. Unless you've got a source which shows exactly how his contract is broken down? With comparisons for the rest of the squad too, because my guess is that he's paid similarly in line with Rashford which makes sense.

How is it ridiculous? A standardized view (happy to be directed to a better source if you have one) has him above Pogba, Maguire, Bruno, Rashford: https://www.spotrac.com/epl/manchester-united-fc/contracts/.

"Anthony Martial signed a 6 year / £78,000,000 contract with the Manchester United F.C., including an annual average salary of £13,000,000. In 2020, Martial will earn a base salary of £13,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of £13,000,000."

^ Of course, he isn't worth this. I didn't think he was worth this at the time, either so again no short termism - just a view that has actually been justified as we went on to see how poor he was this season. I also disagree he should be standardized to Rashford because whilst he has greater natural ability, Rashford has shown to deliver sustained progression and consistency, whilst adapting to multiple positions at 2 years younger.

Beyond that, why are people questioning who will make the squad if we continue to improve the squad? It's so redundant. If Mahrez is injured, City can play Sterling, Silva, KDB, Foden etc. If we get Sancho there will be games that Rashford misses, games Martial misses, games Sancho misses, games Greenwood misses etc - but that's the point having great squad depth. If we start selling our better players, and keep hold of our deadwood we won't improve as a squad.

You are misconstruing the point people make, suggesting they would sell Martial without a replacement. The view is, if we were to sell Martial we can reinvest and better balance the wage bill with a player showing better potential and consistency. Or, spread it over 2 players in plugging other areas of the pitch and improve quality in depth. Because right now, I don't see where he fits in (again nothing disrespectful in this here, just a fair evaluation).

Martial can return and be great, but the problem is there's always a "?" over our heads of how long for. There is a good thread, I think by @Pogue Mahone which questioned the worth of having both Rashford and Martial in the team due to the hot/cold nature of their performances. I think only one can be justified in an XI week in week out, and if the latter were to be reduced to a more rotational role then I wouldn't be against cashing in whilst he has value and bringing say a Raphina in.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He was scoring good CF goals last year.

He looked like a proper CF when we beat City. Although you’d obviously want to see that more than once per season. He’s a weird one. Hard to work out what it would take to get him performing consistently. We can’t really use the “yong and lernin” excuse any more.

 

[VP89]

He was scoring good CF goals last year.

And a big part of that was the way we set out. Last year we were countering teams for fun, and our direct quick turnover suited him. If you note many games this year, teams are smarter to it and tend to be cautious on overloading in attacks, even the top clubs like City, Chelsea, Liverpool adapted to us this season. They were a lot more cautious, as were the rest of the teams in the league. As such this requires the facets which Martial is weak on to come to life more, i.e. movement in that 12 yard box, runs in behind, areal presence. Cavani has shown what we were lacking all these years, at least since Zlatan was here for a cameo season. In my opinion only a striker of similar ilk will be capable of sustaining our threats against cautious teams.

For me, Kane/Haaland/Cavani performances this season together with Lewa's brilliance of course shows the traditional 9 is far from dead as a position. A "proper" striker if you will, is what we need. Martial I think can add a lot of value for us from the left hand side, but not consistetnly enough up top.

 

[Adisa]

The disrespect of Martial is too much.
People are seriously calling for us to sell him when we barely have good enough squad depth as it is.

He's having a bad season, that's all - he should be nowhere near the first that we get rid of.

This. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Adisa]

He's on what, 250k a week

You don't know this?

 

[VP89]

You don't know this?

I know he's over paid. More relatively than others.

 

[Dan_F]

Just because he can’t get into the ideal first 11, it doesn’t mean he can’t play a huge part for us. It’s such a cliche but City is a prime example of why a bigger squad is needed. We have one forward option to come off the bench usually, before we’re down to the likes of James and Mata. It’s not enough.

Whether he can actually be good enough consistently to be relied upon as a squad member is a fair debate. Ole will have to work his magic, but he seems to very good with man management.

I think it’s worth giving him one more year to see, as his value right now will have plummeted to a point where it’s of more benefit to have him in the squad than to sell.

 

[villain]

He's on what, 250k a week? Which even at the time, I thought was overcooked. And right now? He's no way near that price. There's nothing disrespectful about saying a player who has not been able to put 250k worth of appearances in over his tenure, that he's not worth that much a week. His contract will also stipulate him being a key player, which after a Sancho signing I believe will no longer be the case as he will struggle to get into the first XI. Prior to last season, he was underachieving on/off. Last season he did very well, and this season he was atrocious. That is not the barometer of a United 9, and ironically it's disrespectful to the shirt to claim otherwise.

What exactly is 250k worth of appearances? And why is it relevant? 250k for us vs 250k for West Ham vs 250k for Villa all hold very different values - which is exactly why I said that no source ever breaks down how much our players earn when broken down. The reason being that most of our players are very marketable and this is often baked into their contract, also they have things like Cup bonuses, European bonuses, Goal bonuses etc - so that '250k' sum is often the sum if Martial (or any player) were to hit every single bonus on a consistent basis.
Nobody has any idea how much our players actually earn, we only have an idea of the potential they could earn.

This year he's been shite. Last year he was very good. The years before he was inconsistent, for some reasons that were beyond him (the manager) but also reasons that were down to him (lack of movement, inability to react positively to competition). There is no short term thinking from me here.

Overall he gets a Goal or Assist every 2 games & he's spent this season & last season as the sole CF. His stats are incredibly similar to Rashford actually, both in appearances and G&A contributions. But Martial gets derided instead, and I would guess it's because his body language is comparatively languid. Pogba suffers from this too.

How is it ridiculous? A standardized view (happy to be directed to a better source if you have one) has him above Pogba, Maguire, Bruno, Rashford: https://www.spotrac.com/epl/manchester-united-fc/contracts/.

"Anthony Martial signed a 6 year / £78,000,000 contract with the Manchester United F.C., including an annual average salary of £13,000,000. In 2020, Martial will earn a base salary of £13,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of £13,000,000."

^ Of course, he isn't worth this. I didn't think he was worth this at the time, either so again no short termism - just a view that has actually been justified as we went on to see how poor he was this season.

Do you not see that in that source it says he will earn a base salary of £13m, with a cap of £13m as well? So he agreed to sign no image rights, no goal bonuses etc? This is precisely what I was saying before.
I don't have a better source because I know that football contracts are incredibly complex, having had the misfortune of having to work on a few myself - I wouldn't trust anything posted by a the media unless either an agent or club's legal representative are the ones to report it or are cited. You can choose to believe it if you want to, i'm not here to convince you otherwise.

As for 'worth' that's a similar phrase to value. Do I think any human being is 'worth' getting paid more than 100k a week? No. If I were to think about things with the inclusion of economics & ability? Is he 'worth' that to Manchester United as a corporation? Yes, he's one of the most popular players & he's one of the biggest contributors to our output & success.

You are misconstruing the point people make, suggesting they would sell Martial without a replacement. The view is, if we were to sell Martial we can reinvest and better balance the wage bill with a player showing better potential and consistency. Or, spread it over 2 players in plugging other areas of the pitch and improve quality in depth. Because right now, I don't see where he fits in (again nothing disrespectful in this here, just a fair evaluation).

If you were to sell Martial who would we get and for how much? Who is going to guarantee a G/A in at least 1/2 games (or better) - at that point you're looking at the Sancho's, the Grealish's, who don't come cheaper than £75m, and will still be paid a similar amount per week. The other options are to try and find a 'cheap' replacement (will still cost 30m+), with no guarantees that they will come in and offer the same contribution that Martial does. (look at Donny for example)