At this point, I think Rashford is clearly a better player than Martial.
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At this point, I think Rashford is clearly a better player than Martial.
Cant wait to see him have to drop deep constantly, exactly the same as Martial does. Exactly the same as Greenwood does. I’m convinced that’s what Ole is telling them to do. Otherwise he’d be furious.
This genuinely made me laugh
.But really, there were a few nice moments of hold up play and link up one touch play with Bruno and Mata at the start that had me going "alright, this is the minor uptick flash we saw at the start of the season with the increased work rate!" and in general if we're going to persist with him there then is a pathway to upgrade Mata and the guys behind Bruno and get a couple of decent flank players in to supplement him. But then ultimately Rashford is going to come back who is the all round better player and if we upgrade all positions then Martial pretty much just should go straight to the bench. How do you bench a player with known mentality and work rate issues on 200+ bikkies a week? It was genuinely alarming to see that one of Ole's subs was Greenwood on who came on and basically went "get the feck over to the left you lazy twat" and then Martial just stropped around for the rest of the game.
What an absolute nightmare scenario. That is even before you get to the weirdness with the standing around outside the box and never ever making any decent runs off the ball.
I'm partly "well what do you expect.. He doesn't move?" and partly annoyed at the whole thing. Strange player.
I don't know. I think Ole may be hoping that he can somehow become a genuine #9. But if we don't have the passers to pick out his runs, he definitely doesn't have the physicality to battle defenders, hold the ball up well or win any aerial duels.
Think he could work in a two man front line, or just shoved in to the left again. At least with Greenwood, he's deadly from a huge range, as we've seen.
A bona fide striker would not go all over the pitch getting touches but follow his predatory instincts. We simply don't have that kind of a player.
This Martial project needs to end. It will in the summer. Certainly will be getting a good striker in.
Yeah we are in dire need of a proper number 9 in the summer, just looks to me like Tony just doesn't seem arsed about putting in the effort when Rashford isn't there. He would certainly not work hard enough for the likes of Klopp & Pep that is for sure.
Bluntly, he is fecking useless.
Doesn’t run, doesn’t try hard, can’t hold the ball up. minimal effort expended for minimal result on the pitch.
sell in the summer please perhaps some mug club will pay £50m for him.
i can't stand to watch him any more.
a half knackered ighalo is twice the player he is.
Doesn’t run, doesn’t try hard, can’t hold the ball up. minimal effort expended for minimal result on the pitch.
sell in the summer please perhaps some mug club will pay £50m for him.
i can't stand to watch him any more.
a half knackered ighalo is twice the player he is.
I just cannot imagine Ole getting furious at the players. He had a go at Lingard the other day and then hugged him after he substituted him, was he saying 'Sorry' to Jesse.
I noticed after the game he had his arm around Martial and was smiling when he was talking to him so does that mean he is happy with what he is doing.
I just get the feeling that Ole is shit scared of the players not liking him and then not playing for him so much that he will not fire a rocket up them to lift their game and I do not mean via the press but on the pitch during the game.
MOTD highlighted his biggest weakness as a striker - lack of movement and nowhere near the penalty area.
They are a little bit of a necessity and therefore a big problem.
We need to play Ighalo with him up top or move him back to the left.
They are a little bit of a necessity and therefore a big problem.
We need to play Ighalo with him up top or move him back to the left.
How many chances to score did he have? Most of you guys seem to expect him to score something out of nothing or create some moment of brilliance by himself.
That is not fair. You don't judge anyone else by this marker so why him? He's just a Scapegoat for you guys. The same as pogba. You take all the quality out of our team. Which sadly literally is just martial, pogba and rashford. Bruno, I expect to add to this and they are poor. Because there is nothing created for them.
They can't pass to themselves. Barring some brilliant 30 yard goal I don't see what you expected. Against Burnley and Liverpool he did miss some good chances. All strikers do that though, rashford especially so.
Martial however is usually so calm and composed in these situations and finishes them off, which is why his goal conversation rate is so high btw, that you guys somehow expect him never to miss.
Let me tell you. When your only getting 1 or two chances a game, your under immense pressure to score, and you will rush them. I assumed you watched Liverpool v man United? They had probably a dozen very good chances to score. Salah and mane missed many. Not a single Liverpool fan is calling them shit. Your making a laughing stock of us just like RAWK used to be.
When we create that many chances regularly and he is missing them then we can judge him shit.
That is not fair. You don't judge anyone else by this marker so why him? He's just a Scapegoat for you guys. The same as pogba. You take all the quality out of our team. Which sadly literally is just martial, pogba and rashford. Bruno, I expect to add to this and they are poor. Because there is nothing created for them.
They can't pass to themselves. Barring some brilliant 30 yard goal I don't see what you expected. Against Burnley and Liverpool he did miss some good chances. All strikers do that though, rashford especially so.
Martial however is usually so calm and composed in these situations and finishes them off, which is why his goal conversation rate is so high btw, that you guys somehow expect him never to miss.
Let me tell you. When your only getting 1 or two chances a game, your under immense pressure to score, and you will rush them. I assumed you watched Liverpool v man United? They had probably a dozen very good chances to score. Salah and mane missed many. Not a single Liverpool fan is calling them shit. Your making a laughing stock of us just like RAWK used to be.
When we create that many chances regularly and he is missing them then we can judge him shit.
I often struggle to see the purpose behind Martial's game. For strikers with his technical and physical ability it's normal to drop deep and invite pressure on themselves. Because they are capable of controlling the ball in tight spaces, they can create unbalance for the opposition and release the ball to team mates with more space.
Martial often try this, but when other strikers do it, they release the ball and storm into the box. Martial releases the ball, and then comes back to ask for it again, as if he wants to invite pressure just for the sake of it. I don't know if it is a coaching issue, or if he just lacks the tactical understanding/decision making for the absolute top level.
Martial often try this, but when other strikers do it, they release the ball and storm into the box. Martial releases the ball, and then comes back to ask for it again, as if he wants to invite pressure just for the sake of it. I don't know if it is a coaching issue, or if he just lacks the tactical understanding/decision making for the absolute top level.
Problem is Ole sees him as a striker. Why else give him the number 9 back?
Honestly can't believe he ever complained he got the shirt number taken away from him when Ibra came in. He's not fit to lace Ibra's boots.
Soon as a player takes the #9 there is one thing he is going to be judged on and that is how many goals he can score;
He can have the style of a Berbatov, an Inzaghi, a Shearer but he has to put the ball in the back of the net and yet Martial struggles to get in the positions where he needs to be to even do that.
Give it up Ole, he has to go back to the left at least until Rash comes back.
He can have the style of a Berbatov, an Inzaghi, a Shearer but he has to put the ball in the back of the net and yet Martial struggles to get in the positions where he needs to be to even do that.
Give it up Ole, he has to go back to the left at least until Rash comes back.
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He isn't a 9 but he isn't helped by the very scared football we play. Too many of our players are in their comfort zone and do not dare forward and penetrating passes over the top or between the lines
Some were even blaming Zlatan for his problems back then. Crazy.
Coward, no balls and no fight.
If it isn't his day he just accepts it, problem is that his days are not that many. He won't be here for long, is time he delivers or we let go.
If it isn't his day he just accepts it, problem is that his days are not that many. He won't be here for long, is time he delivers or we let go.
Oh ya for sure. Rashford surpassed Martial by leaps and bounds.
They started off being similar level, in fact Martial was likely better and more polished at first but Rashford just kept gradually adding to his game, improving on his weaknesses and little by little he always gets better. His finishing got better, he doesnt just put his head down and run as he used to, his runs got better, he scores with his left, even headers, his free kicks even got better haha
Its obvious Rashford works hard not just on the pitch but he works hard on his game. Things we may have made fun of last year like free kicks and headers, he does so much better now. He always improves.
Martial was a better player under LVG than he is now. Mourinho absolutely nailed it with Martial. Say what you want about Mourinho but he hasnt won all those trophies for no reason.
I remember that. A lot of people were blaming Zlatan for being the only attacking player that season scoring goals while everyone else was failing.
It was lunacy.
Sadly accurate.
I think he is a better winger personally. I've had this discussion before with posters on here who rightfully pointed out that he was a striker at Monaco and always was one - he even said it himself to be fair.
In this current United side though he is useless as a striker. We have an obsession with crossing the ball but is Martial ever going to out muscle, outjump, outmanouvre the likes of Boly, Virgil, Laporte, etc?
We aren't a good enough football playing side to play someone as technically gifted and physically inept as martial upfront on his own.
Liverpool are able to play Firmino as CF and be unbeatable, despite him not being that much of a physical threat, because he has Mane to the left of him and salah to the right.
What does Martial have really? Tonight he had James to his right struggling to get past Otto nevermind provide adequate service and had Pereira to his left struggling to keep hold of the ball.
This is why I'm glad we signed Ighalo, because he is going to be the recipient of these crosses and has more chance of standing his ground than Martial or even Rashford.
In this current United side though he is useless as a striker. We have an obsession with crossing the ball but is Martial ever going to out muscle, outjump, outmanouvre the likes of Boly, Virgil, Laporte, etc?
We aren't a good enough football playing side to play someone as technically gifted and physically inept as martial upfront on his own.
Liverpool are able to play Firmino as CF and be unbeatable, despite him not being that much of a physical threat, because he has Mane to the left of him and salah to the right.
What does Martial have really? Tonight he had James to his right struggling to get past Otto nevermind provide adequate service and had Pereira to his left struggling to keep hold of the ball.
This is why I'm glad we signed Ighalo, because he is going to be the recipient of these crosses and has more chance of standing his ground than Martial or even Rashford.
I agree with this. As much as I think Martial has been very overrated by a substantial section of fans, he's much better than he's currently showing. In a well-functioning system he'd be a dangerous player. Perhaps the right manager could even coax improvements from his game. I still think (based on zero evidence to be fair) that Pep for example could do something with him.
And yet, when Rashford was put in the same position of being a lone striker, ahead of a midfield devoid of creativity, and without Martial to play off as a foil, many fans wanted him out of the team. For example...
Maybe it's just a position that all forwards would look bad in?
His favorite time pass seems to be to pass to opposition players
Looking back at those comments... Rashy was absolutely slaughtered on here back then.
How are we able to make strikers look so poor?
Rashford was criticised for missing chances, despite getting into good positions.
Martial's shortcomings are different - he doesn't seem to have either the instincts or desire to get consistently on the end of chances in the first place. It takes two to tango, and if he's not there to be a potential receiver in the box, it makes our creators look even more impotent than normal.
Which isn't to say a centreforward's only job is to score goals. We got to a CL final with Welbeck as our starting striker. Sometimes all you need is a focal point who occupies defenders and drags the opposition backline out of shape for his teammates to take advantage. Rashford was at least doing that much earlier in the season, whereas Martial is a step down from even there. If Martial is not working for himself, he should at least be working for his teammates - the fact he isn't is where the frustration comes in.
Martial only seems to activate when the ball is near him. The biggest issue is his off the ball movement. And when I say off the ball movement, I don't mean his pressing. Those are two different things, but seem to get conflated under the idea of being hard-working.
If it's his innate fitness levels that limit him from improving, then he's not cut out for elite level football and fair play to the lad for living up to his potential as much as he has. But if it's his attitude, he needs to change it because he deserves to be called out on weaknesses that are his own fault.
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I've been saying this since the preseason: Martial's center forward play is so poor that he isn't qualified to play as a lone striker. He doesn't have the physicality to hold off opponents; he doesn't have the sense to wait for support; he doesn't have the desire to participate in the game and make a difference. These are essential elements for a successful striker nowadays and he has none of them. Yesterday, Raul Jimenez just demonstrated to him how to play as a no. 9.
Some suggest Martial would be better playing on the left, to which I have plenty of doubts. In my opinion, his lack of movement, teamwork and workrate can hardly make him a successful player in any position.
Some suggest Martial would be better playing on the left, to which I have plenty of doubts. In my opinion, his lack of movement, teamwork and workrate can hardly make him a successful player in any position.
Put current Rashford in that position, he'll make more of an impact.
Rashford has improved a lot this season. I admit I didn't see this improvement coming.
But like other posters eluded to, Rashford's critique was his wastefulness in front of goal. You can never criticize Rashford for being 'invisible' in a game. He'll always bust a gut trying. Can you say the same for Martial?
No one is asking for him(Martial) to play like Ronaldo Nazario up top by the way.
They're ignored by our fans, too. With Bruno misplacing passes left, right and centre, and no one else having the ability or confidence to play forward passes, he was doomed from the get go. Same as Rashford before him, the same as when Greenwood plays, and the same as when Ighalo will play.
He had a tap in ready in the 2nd half but Pereira opted for the shot just before being subbed.
Rubbish yesterday, he's Rashfords back up on the left for me, need a proper striker in the summer.
The epitomy of all what is wrong with the club.
Arrogant, overhyped and inconsistent
Arrogant, overhyped and inconsistent
We'll never win anything big with the likes of him in the team. Super talented but one lazy player. Doesnt work for the team.
Ive said it all along with him. As a forward you have to give defenders hell with your movement and be unpredictable. Martial is basically the opposite.
Ive said it all along with him. As a forward you have to give defenders hell with your movement and be unpredictable. Martial is basically the opposite.
Yeah but don’t you think if a player was completely doing the opposite to what he wanted, that he would do something about it? If not, then that’s an even bigger issue than Martial not doing it.
He wasted his talents.But i doubt it he cares at 250pw.
I get the impression that he's not particularly bothered if he scores a goal or not. He just doesn't have an urge or drive for wanting to score goals.
We need a goal machine up front that will put his body on the line for scoring goals. Martial is just not that player.
We need a goal machine up front that will put his body on the line for scoring goals. Martial is just not that player.
Lots of analysis around Martial but the truth is that he’s not very good.
I've always been a fan of his but I'm starting to lose faith, he simply doesnt do enough. If he doesn't up his game until they end of the season we should seriously consider moving him on.
Absolutely, their strengths and weaknesses are very different, and their limitations are exposed under difficult circumstances in distinct ways. Rashford was criticised for trying to do too much, Martial for too little. Rashford was very wasteful, Martial is very safe. There are all sorts of things Rashford was criticised for, and compared unfavourably to Martial on, so that's besides the point. Neither are afforded the explanation that they revert to those caricatures of themselves largely because of the situation they're placed within.
In the case of Rashford, people are talking about it as a remarkable transformation, rather than reframing the initial assessment. Martial might be particularly flawed and particularly inflexible, but this isn't the situation to make those assessments. As evidenced by Rashford having perhaps the worst run of form of his career in exactly the same conditions just this season, and many great strikers struggling in similar conditions over the years.
You were slagging off Rashford during his period of poor form. Now that he has proven you wrong. You are doing the same thing again with Martial.
Some people just love a good moan.
Out wide or through the middle he needs a foil, hopefully Ighalo can help with that. Yesterday the Wolves back 3 were taking it in turns to foul him knowing that we had nothing else up there. Where I will criticise him though is that a lot of the time nowadays he wants too long on the ball and gets caught. He needs to find his instinct again.
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