[Raven]

I genuinely don't get it, he didn't had a shit game today. It was an average game with some good things in terms of hold up play and positioning in the box and some bad moments with poor touches and at least two opportunities to start a counter with a run where he failed. But what I don't is why people feel the need to go over the top, to some when he has a good game he is supposed to be the future Ballon d'Or winner and for others when he has an average or bad game he is the worst player ever and has all the flaws in the world.

It's called objectivity. Which is sorely lacking on this forum. You'll notice that these last few weeks have been the busiest this thread has been since last season. People are waiting to jump on him. The team is misfiring all over the pitch and unfortunately Martial's form has dipped, partially due to Rashford's injury and partially due to fatigue. You seem to have watched the same game as me, his touch and movement were inconsistent and he was part of the problem today more than he helped.

I think the winter break will help the squad, it's been a hectic run of games and a lot of our players are visibly exhausted. After the break, we'll have better rested players, Ighalo coming in, Bruno with more integration in the squad and Pogba and McTominay returning. Once we have a fuller and fitter squad I fancy Martial and the team as a whole to hit much better form than we've seen lately.

 

[Focusmate]

We have a problem with Martial. Unsellable with the big wages he is now on, so getting rid is not an option.
We somehow need to get the best out of him, probably on the left. Im just worried his mentality will hold him back. Really should have kicked on by now with his talent.
Easy in hindsight but wish we had of sold him and brought a genuine winger in when Mourinho wanted to.

 

[Tomuś]

Me neither quite frankly. He's still living off his hype against that Liverpool match I presume. 6 years and he hasn't developed shit.

I've seen a lot of people here saying he's been a success or at least a good transfer. He's worse now than he was in his first season and even that wasn't world-class. Considering the amount we paid for him all those years ago it was a big sum. Failure. Far from the worst dealings we've made post Fergie but still.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I think the only way he can play as a striker is if we are counter attacking.

 

[M16Red]

I would moan, but it is pointless.

 

[Renegade]

We pay him like a superstar. This club is so backwards.

 

[the chameleon]

I said at the start of the season, this is his 5th season at the club. We gave him his big contract in 2019. Gave him his number 9 shirt back. This season for me is a make or break for him and Rashford. Rashford has come through and showed he has the mentality to be a leader for us. Despite some talent, I don't think he has the mentality to lead the front line for a team like ours.

He's more of a passenger, at the moment we need strong attacking players that will come in and take the lead. Especially, as we are a young team, he needs to be leader to the younger guys like Greenwood and James. He'll have had 5 years here and I just don't see why we persist with this guy.

 

[TMDaines]

Biggest challenge he put in today was on Mata at the edge of the Wolves box. Some centre forwards make the absolute most out of everything. Martial treats most moments with absolute indifference. Capable of brilliance, but defenders must feel in their comfort zone against him.

 

[Litch]

Very difficult showing up when probably 50% of the team wouldn't get into the Wolves, Sheffield Utd, Everton etc team.....

 

[TMDaines]

I genuinely don't get it, he didn't had a shit game today. It was an average game with some good things in terms of hold up play and positioning in the box and some bad moments with poor touches and at least two opportunities to start a counter with a run where he failed. But what I don't is why people feel the need to go over the top, to some when he has a good game he is supposed to be the future Ballon d'Or winner and for others when he has an average or bad game he is the worst player ever and has all the flaws in the world.

He just seems to play within himself. I wouldn’t even label him lazy, because he does everything you want of a centre forward, but it’s all done with 80% effort. Some centre forwards you look at and think they put absolutely everything into every run, into every 50-50, into every aerial challenge. I never think that with Martial. Defenders always look comfortable with him. I don’t see the fire, the absolute will to win, the sheer drive to always score.

Compare Aguero to him and how Pep has made him an absolute whirling dervish to play against. Defenders are never at ease and he get something on everything, and fights for every ball even if it wasn’t perfect.

 

[acnumber9]

I suggest you go back and read Rashford's performance thread during that period.

In any case, I think anything other than "he's shite" will fall on deaf ears, so I say drop him! At least it will save us all the hassle.

I don’t take the opinion of a number of idiots online all that seriously.

 

[JPRouve]

He just seems to play within himself. I wouldn’t even label him lazy, because he does everything you want of a centre forward, but it’s all done with 80% effort. Some centre forwards you look at and think they put absolutely everything into every run, into every 50-50, into every aerial challenge. I never think that with Martial. Defenders always look comfortable with him. I don’t see the fire, the absolute will to win, the sheer drive to always score.

Compare Aguero to him and how Pep has made him an absolute whirling dervish to play against. Defenders are never at ease and he get something on everything, and fights for every ball even if it wasn’t perfect.

Read what you just wrote and the vocabulary that you used, it's extremely subjective, you used unquantifiable intangibles and quantified them. We are in feelings territory here.

 

[VeevaVee]

A nothing game for him. It can be said that a lot of the team didn't look particularly keen on attacking well which will of course affect his game, but someone has to take some responsibility and Martial rarely does unless everything is going smoothly.

 

[3KDré]

Compare Aguero to him and how Pep has made him an absolute whirling dervish to play against. Defenders are never at ease and he get something on everything, and fights for every ball even if it wasn’t perfect.

While this is true, Pep rotates his players regularly. Jesus gets a lot of minutes. Martial's played a lot of minutes recently.

 

[TMDaines]

Didn’t realise Haaland scored twice today; he’s already scored as many league goals for Dortmund in 135 minutes as Martial has all season for United.

That’s after 8 goals in the CL group stages and 20 goals in domestic Austrian games in the first half of the season.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He just seems to play within himself. I wouldn’t even label him lazy, because he does everything you want of a centre forward, but it’s all done with 80% effort.

This is probably more accurate than just calling him lazy. He does alot of those things, just not very well as a lone striker. He'd do well at a smaller club that plays on the counter. Ironically he would probably look Better playing for Wolves today, and Jimenez for us.

 

[TMDaines]

Read what you just wrote and the vocabulary that you used, it's extremely subjective, you used unquantifiable intangibles and quantified them. We are in feelings territory here.

As much as you can assess footballers with statistics, and I am a big stats guy, you also need to assess with your eye and your brain.

If you prefer something concrete in numbers then consider, as I just posted, Haaland for Dortmund already matching Martial’s league total this season.

 

[JPRouve]

A nothing game for him. It can be said that a lot of the team didn't look particularly keen on attacking well which will of course affect his game, but someone has to take some responsibility and Martial rarely does unless everything is going smoothly.

For me the first thing is that for a striker to take responsiblity he needs to receive the ball and today I have seen him in positions to receive the ball but ignored because some of our players refuse to make passes in tight windows. One of the thing that the striker we use as reference have is teammates that actually make those speculative passes, try to chip the ball over a defender or try to twat the ball in small spaces. For us it's either an obvious easy forward pass without obstacles or a back pass.
Today and during the previous games Martial issue has been with his basic technique, he has missed touches that he doesn't have the habit to miss and he has been clumsy when running with the ball but he has also made good runs and found himself in dangerous areas just to be ignored.

 

[JPRouve]

As much as you can assess footballers with statistics, and I am a big stats guy, you also need to assess with your eye and your brain.

If you prefer something concrete in numbers then consider, as I just posted, Haaland for Dortmund already matching Martial’s league total this season.

This has nothing to do with eye or brain, the 80% that you decreted have nothing to do with your eyes or brain, they are totally baseless and made up. If you want to talk about some of the shortcomings that he had today, we can and I have mentioned them but they nothing to do with the feelings that you shared.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don’t take the opinion of a number of idiots online all that seriously.

That's fair enough, but at the time he was looking seriously poor.

But like I said, if it's ultimately that the tactics are fine and he's not good enough, I'm more than happy to have him leave or drop to the bench. Although he's been poor recently, I don't think he's the main reason why we're not scoring, and I'm loath to criticize the strikers under our very dire football.

 

[JPRouve]

That's fair enough, but at the time he was looking seriously poor.

But like I said, if it's ultimately that the tactics are fine and he's not good enough, I'm more than happy to have him leave or drop to the bench. Although he's been poor recently, I don't think he's the main reason why we're not scoring, and I'm loathe to criticize strikers under our very dire football.

I don't think that tactics were the issue today. It was a mix of Martial not excelling at certain things and the same applies for his teammates.

 

[VeevaVee]

For me the first thing is that for a striker to take responsiblity he needs to receive the ball and today I have seen him in positions to receive the ball but ignored because some of our players refuse to make passes in tight windows. One of the thing that the striker we use as reference have is teammates that actually make those speculative passes, try to chip the ball over a defender or try to twat the ball in small spaces. For us it's either an obvious easy forward pass without obstacles or a back pass.
Today and during the previous games Martial issue has been with his basic technique, he has missed touches that he doesn't have the habit to miss and he has been clumsy when running with the ball but he has also made good runs and found himself in dangerous areas just to be ignored.

He'd definitely benefit from us trying to penetrate more, yeah. So often we slow it down, either purposely or because we aren't accurate enough. The lack of urgency is ever prominent and almost always the issue when we can't score. Rashford improves this I think, which is probably one of the reasons Martial looks better with him.

 

[TMDaines]

This has nothing to do with eye or brain, the 80% that you decreted have nothing to do with your eyes or brain, they are totally baseless and made up. If you want to talk about some of the shortcomings that he had today, we can and I have mentioned them but they nothing to do with the feelings that you shared.

So you feel that Martial puts his maximum into every action he makes out on the football pitch? Do you think he compares favourably with other elite forwards in this regard?

 

[The United]

His movement was decent. He was coming from left and right. But, I think both Mata and James were not suited to the style we play. And, playing against 3 CBs didn't help. At least, with Rashford, we would have another threat coming from the left which would free up Martial a bit more.

We do need more good wingers/inside forward players really.

 

[kopviolator]

This guy will never be the bomb!

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don't think that tactics were the issue today. It was a mix of Martial not excelling at certain things and the same applies for his teammates.

I just didn't see an idea for getting the ball to our single danger man, Martial, to score.

Pereira on the left, no DM, easily bypassed in midfield, Fernandes playing as a 6, Mata all over the place, etc. It looked poor to me, and it ultimately didn't work. We didn't create a single opportunity, with several players putting in very poor performances.

Another thing I noticed is the freedom our players get is too much. Players like Martial, Pereira, AWB, Dan James, need strict instructions that they mould their style of play around. Right now everyone's just winging it taking up whichever position they please, and it ends up looking like a mess.

 

[Godfather]

Don't even think he was bad today. Good hold up play but never got into any dangerous positions.

 

[tjb]

A few of our fans need to start being objective with Martial. He is a passenger, offers little movement, gets pushed off the ball easily and barely creates anything. Sure he is good at dribbling the ball with his right foot and finishing to an extent, but the rest of his game is lacking and has been lacking. Hes not inventive and is not a hard worker off the ball. The thing with Martial is this, we have never actually seen him produce consistently in his career. We bought him young and assumed he would get to a place where he was a star. He is not. A winger cannot be as static and uncreative as he is. A striker cannot be as poor off the ball and lacking in strength or balance either.

Balls were finding him, particularly in the first half. The difference between our older teams and now is that some of the players could consistently outplay individual players one on one. They had the balance, anticipation, technique and drive to mostly get the better of the opposition and win their duels. Its not like he's great in the air either. So on the ground he has to make up for this with effort and drive to make things happen, even as the striker, and at this moment and point of the season, if the question posed to him was whether he could lead the front line at united, the answer would be an emphatic no. Remember he is one of the highest paid players in the premier league, this is not value for money.

 

[JPRouve]

So you feel that Martial puts his maximum into every action he makes out on the football pitch? Do you think he compares favourably with other elite forwards in this regard?

I don't think that a single a player put his maximum effort into every action and he isn't all that different from elite forwards in this regard, they all appear and disappear in games, all play at different intensities within the same game. The thing though is that Martial in my opinion isn't elite, he doesn't have the same technical or tactical proficiency. What I would agree with is that Martial doesn't know how to manage intensity, for example today he did something that some of the best attackers will never do, he lost the ball, sprinted iback nto our defensive third then we got the ball back and he sprinted forward but was obviously behind the action. This is dumb, people may like this type of "commitment" but he wasn't supposed to do that, in top teams when an attacker loses the ball in the last third his teammates bail him out while he stays in a dangerous area because otherwise there is a big chance that what happened on this occasion happens, one of your attackers is late in a counter attack. People will mention the likes of Rooney or Cavani has examples but these are freaks, these two players spent their careers doing extra things that attackers should never do.

 

[Andersonson]

Igahlo will take his place. He aint a striker, just not smart enough to play in that role.

He has the skills, but lacks smartness and bravery to play up top. I think he is a decent backup for Rashford on the left wing though.

Not the worst backup option to have, and hopefully he can still develop, he is only 24, but he needs to really kick on soon. Sadly I think he's already out of the euros for France.

 

[Jacob]

A trophy wife that sleeps in another bed.

 

[Lash]

Poor game, but it's kinda the state of things tbh. Was ignored for large parts, but when he did get it at points, made some poor decisions. Might be good for him to get ighalo in alongside. James, Shaw, Pereira all fecking rubbish at playing the first time pass.

 

[AndyMUFC]

I'm still not convinced he's actually an out and out centre forward to be honest.

 

[Bebestation]

People salivating over Jimenez

Wolves cuts through our midfield and our defence to LW, RW and CF like a knife through butter and the guy still doesn't score. Literally how many times did their attack find themselves in acres of space?


Yet we can't make a pass through a players leg not to martial who tries to make diagonal runs before dropping deep but neither to the average wider attackers, not even against Tranmere so we revert to shooting from long range - don't delude your self - we aren't tactically coached to break down a team & the only way Rashford has done well this season is because that left hand side of our attack naturally clicks much more than our right with our best attackers complimenting each other by literally creating chances by themselves ( martial & Rashford, James crossing to Rashford etc)

All the runs in the world playing Central for this team - give me a break. I watched Southampton lose 4-0 today but they still looked like they have a plan on how to attempt to break down the Liverpool defence with consistency - we always just look like we make an assumption on how to play football on the pitch & if it works - it works.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Gets paid like a superstar.

Plays like a pensioner in a charity game 90% of the time.

 

[Bondi77]

I cannot wait to see Ighalo play so i can compare him to Martial

 

[mu4c_20le]

A trophy wife that sleeps in another bed.

So, Melania.......

 

[Volumiza]

He looks like a player who doesnt have to fight for his place. Very little movement form him, poor touch nd caught in possession. Id trade him for wolves 9 any day.

You know what? To me, he looks like a player who doesn’t actually love his craft. I see no drive, I see no instincts, I see no will to be the strongest, fastest, best.

He has talent and he’s a big strong lad but just no will to come out on top of any duel or race.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Martial's best form for us was that period where he was coming off the bench and scoring against tired defences, rotating with Rashford essentially.

That's his ceiling. He is a squad option and not one you can strongly rely on. If we don't sign a top-class CF this summer to displace Martial, we're having another season of this shite next year.

 

[Rash Decision]

I still believe Martial's best position is on the left, like LVG used him at times (but not how Mourinho used him). But that would bring him into direct competition with Rashford, and spark more fan wars.