No he wasn't. These posts are as annoying as "martial is useless" posts.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 23
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
No he wasn't. These posts are as annoying as "martial is useless" posts.
So that’ll last season then eh? Rashford has really kicked on this season, been unplayable in some games.
No it's because of rubbish players in AM role and also lack of CM who can't create. So we have 3 players who barley create anything and FBs who don'tt offer anything in the attack. That's why we are struggling, not because Martial is considered as one of our better players.
Players do not develop in silos. It's amazing how we happen to be only top club where players with potential and new signings dont develop.
That's not what I'm saying and not what the conversation is about. The conversation is about players able to lift a team by themselves on a regular basis, Rashford was subpar when Martial was out and is form went up the moment Martial was back in the team. The reason for that is that they complement each others and work well when they can lean on each others otherwise their performances deep significantly. And in the case of Rashford this season it was very obvious when you consider his performances and output when Martial was out. During the stretch of five PL games that Martial missed, Rashford registered 1 goal and 1 assist during the following five games that Martial started, Rashford registered 3 goals and 2 assists.
I'm not sure how much of it can be attributed to Martial. Rashford seemed to be carrying a knock and was in dire form, his form for both us and England improved at the same time. His form also continued in games where Martial was rested since then. I'm not convinced it's their partnership as much as it was just Rashford finding form again.
With the amount we spent our forward line should not consist of two 21 year olds, an 18 year old, someone that failed on the wing so has been moved inside and an over the hill Mata. All of those players should be rotation options when their form is good, they shouldn't be saddled with being our entire attack.
I want to support all the players but he really should be doing better. Against Burnley they had a total of five chances and scored two goals. We have the better of the play and created more yet did not convert easier chances for the better players we have. I am off the opinion if your not scoring as a centre forward you should be working the back line. Martial played the way the centre backs were comfortable not making them have to defend deep. He kept dropping deep and not attacking the box.( I do not know if this was the tactics) but, the teams who drag defenders into places they are not comfortable are all above us with strikers who work hard for their team.
I think Martial has talent he is normally composed but the last few matches he has not been. He wants everything to feet and then to run and beat his man then take his shot. I think the team needs him to mix it up, play on the shoulder separate the centre backs and get in the box, which will give his teammates space. He may not score but he could help the team.
It's the role that Martial plays not Martial himself. And Rashford form hasn't continued in games where Martial was rested, there is no data to support it because they have almost exclusively started together with the exception of the Chelsea cup game.
League game against Spurs, Rashford scored twice when Martial was ill. Althought to be honest I thought there was three or four games instead of just two.
And that's my point. Rashford has been consistently good with Martial and has been inconsistent without him, that's the pattern. Logically these players still have good games without each others but not at the same frequency. And this applies to Martial too, he clearly is worse when Rashford is out or not in form, they are both worse without Pogba, they both seem to be better with Greenwood or an in form Shaw. At the end of the day, my point is very simple, players are better and more consistent when they are surrounded by good footballers. Rare are the players that aren't affected too much by it, we are talking about the likes of Messi, Cruyff or Maradona and we don't have a player like that.
Many would agree he’s amongst our best players, but he’s not actually that good. It’s symbolic of our overall decline. He’s not got the attitude or consistency. Bluffer.
I agree with this to a degree. But we have a bunch of players who constantly have excuses made for them. Players have a role to play in their own development as well and too many times over the years Martial has failed to do the business. He’s just simply an inconsistent but talented players on his day. Never going to be an important player for a top side.
I don't think Martials good enough to do the CF job without competition but you act like we have a full balanced team and this guy was failing to do the business for us like Forlan was.
He's got inflated wages & he has a niche tactical role of a support striker/False 9 striker that not every manager uses so his time at United is going to get hard - but I really don't get the hate for him.
People hate him like he's Pogba, like he's Lukaku talking crap about United.
I really don't get this fan club.
Why can't we have a good collection of players.
Martial is more useful to a team build up than Gabriel Jesus, Lacazette, Abraham, Origi - just support him until his time his up. You might disagree but I think he is.
He's a useful player & he's currently our only damn attacker - the chance against Liverpool he fudging literally had to play ping pong off pereira to try and create a chance and people are pissed that he missed it.
We get Pochettino in the summer - Martials time at the club is done. We get someone like Nagelsmann then Martial is going to become more important than ever playing like Poulsen laying off chances to Rashford like he's Timo Werner.
I don't think Martials good enough to do the CF job without competition but you act like we have a full balanced team and this guy was failing to do the business for us like Forlan was.
He's got inflated wages & he has a niche tactical role of a support striker/False 9 striker that not every manager uses so his time at United is going to get hard - but I really don't get the hate for him.
People hate him like he's Pogba, like he's Lukaku talking crap about United.
I really don't get this fan club.
Why can't we have a good collection of players.
Martial is more useful to a team build up than Gabriel Jesus, Lacazette, Abraham, Origi - just support him until his time his up. You might disagree but I think he is.
He's a useful player & he's currently our only damn attacker - the chance against Liverpool he fudging literally had to play ping pong off pereira to try and create a chance and people are pissed that he missed it.
We get Pochettino in the summer - Martials time at the club is done. We get someone like Nagelsmann then Martial is going to become more important than ever playing like Poulsen laying off chances to Rashford like he's Timo Werner.
I don’t hate him in the slightest.
He’s a talented but highly streaky player.
He’s nearing his mid twenties, has played about 200 games and scores about 1 in 4.
He better start improving soon.
He literally turned 24 a month ago, has played a lot as left sided attacker and has been used a lot as sub. You make it sound like he has bad stats but in fact his stats are actually pretty good in my opinion.
LvG signed him and Martial looked like a futute star in his first year. Mourinho came and Martial his role was changed and diminished because Ibrahimovic joined. Martial fought his way back into the team as left attacker but Mourinho decided he needed to sign Sanchez and bench Martial.
In my opinion this is the first season that Martial really plays as CF with the trust and support of his manager. Considering he has atleast two of Mata/James/Pereira/Lingard feeding him, i think he is doing fairly well.
I even think that someone like Dybala at 23/24 wouldnt have done much better than Martial is doing right now.
However i am not saying everything is perfect. He shouldnt have missed those chances against Burnley and if he had scored during the first half we would have won that game. I just think it was an incident because he usually doesnt miss chances like that.
Even when he grew up though he's never been a striker that lead the line - he played behind strikers and played deep trying to lay of chances to other strikers & this is obvious with his intentions with how deep he plays here aswell as his faults when he gets in to the box - he isn't quick or predatory enough, takes too many touches and thinks too much.
Even the article by the athletic showing how Ole wanted to use him as a false 9 - Ole hasn't played him as deep as firmino and plays him the furthest forward whilst playing the actual forwards like Rashford or Greenwood really far behind him due to his preferences of a counter attack in comparison to Liverpool's attack where Mane & Salah are the furthest attackers forward & Firmino is the deepest attacker interlinking play.
Martial wants to play deep but is never deeper than Rashford & Greenwood (if they even play together).
It doesn't really matter anyway - many fans see a striker as a striker & if your in the centre you have to score goals - but Martials' ability is to get the goals to come more from wider positions from other players whilst getting some goals and assists himself & that can improve if a manager comes in wanting to use that tactic.
The problem is the false 9 is hardly used & may be argued only the best may even contemplate using it (that's why I think Martials time at United is up) - Pep & Klopp have used it correctly whilst Ole has used it with a whole bunch of flaws even before shouting at the players (Daniel James on the RW as a winger , the defensive trident positions of players, the cam) etc.
Martial will get killed for not scoring again but again I don't really blame him - it's like telling Adama Traore why he isn't cutting in off the RW and scoring every week instead of only crossing and providing assists because all the other top wingers are doing it. Just because Martial is a striker doesn't mean he is the same striker as Van nistelrooy or Haaland.
Martial is a good footballer to have for a good tactical manager - because there is a niche tactical ability to get out of him that you can get out him that you can't get out of all strikers easily, the ability to drop deep to CAM and hold up play with ease and link up play and passes to the wider positions. That's why I say - go get that 20 goal striker to compete with him for our own benefit (should have been Haaland or whoever it is next) — but ultimately a manager who potentially sells Martial straight away may indicate them incoming to the club with a set tactic in their head than a tactic that is built around the players at his disposal, built around his opposition - something someone Nagelsmann does in comparison to someone like Jose who moved all our strikers to the left as a way to sell them to get only physical target men like Lukaku at the club. I wonder if Pochettino might do the same.
I feel as though his ceiling is Adebayor. Players that have the quality and magic inside of them.when they do it, they look like worldies but you know they are about 2 levels below the real worldies and will never break into that elite company. Every now and then they will do the skills or great goals to remind you it's there so you keep them and play them.
It’s a large fanbase - there’s also a massive contingent for whom Martial can do nothing right.
For there to have been substantial development or improvement on his first season he would have to be one of the standout attacking players in the league, such was his quality and explosiveness when he first arrived.
Martial is a good player and one of our three best along with Rashford and Pogba, for me. Sure, Martial and Rashford are not Rooney and Ronaldo and the fact that they are basically the equivalents in our current lineup does show where we are as a team in comparison to where we use to be. But this is where we are - why look to upgrade on one of our stronger players? Prioritise. Martial actually has a bit of quality so let’s get more quality in the areas where it’s lacking and then go from there and reassess next time. We are where we are because Martial is considered one of our better players - well replacing him means taking one of our better players out of the starting lineup. It’s surely better to upgrade in positions which are currently filled with those who are not amongst our better players, no?
He’s a way down our list of problems, but it may be a conversation for 18 months time I think. I love him as a player, one of the few ‘watchable’ players we have, and I always first check a United lineup to see if Martial or Pogba are in it, as that gives me an indication as to whether I will see something that gets me off my seat rather than just workmanlike graft. That said, as a 9, we will eventually need a ruthless goalscorer that drags us out of sticky situations. Turns these draws into wins regularly, and I’m not sure if Martial will be that man. I mean, when presented with a chance, I’d back him to take it, but I’d like a bit more aggression to sniff goals out.
If there’s any sort of deal to be done with Inter where we can get Lautaro in return, I’d take it. They have been interested in Martial for a while, along with every other living and breathing football player I suppose, and I’d swap him as I think Martinez has the desire and ability to be one of the best strikers in the world. He’d score a shit load on the PL, and be less reliant on ‘service’. He can feed off little.
If there’s any sort of deal to be done with Inter where we can get Lautaro in return, I’d take it. They have been interested in Martial for a while, along with every other living and breathing football player I suppose, and I’d swap him as I think Martinez has the desire and ability to be one of the best strikers in the world. He’d score a shit load on the PL, and be less reliant on ‘service’. He can feed off little.
Tranmere Rovers 0:6 Man Utd
He was fine but a technical player is never going to shine on a pitch like that. A goal and an assist was a great return.
A good goal, a deflection, but anyways a good goal. But he was weak besides that I think.
He doesnt have much impact in games lately. Goes missing and not much involved. Good that he got a goal though, hopefully he will kick on a bit.
He doesnt have much impact in games lately. Goes missing and not much involved. Good that he got a goal though, hopefully he will kick on a bit.
Everyone on here who is full or criticism about Martial, need to take a break and look at themselves.
When Rashford played CF earlier this year when we had Martial, Pogba injured he looked far far worse than Martial does.
When you play in a team, there are no runners behind, there is no creativity at all, what do people expect? I tell you what, they expect Martial to produce a world class moment every game to win it. It's not going to happen.
When we get better help and service into Martial, we will 100% be better.
When Rashford played CF earlier this year when we had Martial, Pogba injured he looked far far worse than Martial does.
When you play in a team, there are no runners behind, there is no creativity at all, what do people expect? I tell you what, they expect Martial to produce a world class moment every game to win it. It's not going to happen.
When we get better help and service into Martial, we will 100% be better.
Is it bad to score deflected goals? Was it not on target?
Where did I say bad goal??
Some people always look at players performances in a vacuum. In reality, this isn't how things work. There are a couple of instances where I think Martial should be doing better, such as his movement, highlighted against Burnley when Andreas put a good pass into the near post where he assumed Martial was going to be, but he had pulled back outside the box. The main problem though is that we don't have enough players that are his quality. The only players around his level are Rashford and Pogba so naturally when they're out, Martial's form will suffer.
People calling for Martial to go or saying he's not good enough in the long term are not seeing that adding more players of his quality is what we need, not get rid of our remaining good players. It's the same with Pogba, miracles are expected in every game because of their quality but when they fail to deliver in every game, due to the incompetence surrounding them, they are hounded.
To add to this, the concept of form seems to have totally gone out the window, players are either brilliant or they are shit depending on their last run of games. I remember RVP going a run of 8 or 9 games without a goal for us before, that didn't make him a bad player, it made him a world class striker who was capable of being inconsistent like almost every world class player player ever. Martial isn't quite world class but I don't think he's far off with a better team around him.
Agreed, these are the people who do not understand the metric of what a good forward is required to do.
How many goals do you think RVP will score in this team? I wouldnt think there would be a difference to what Martial has scored.
If you have players who keep playing the ball to Martial, like when we have him and Rashford playing they play one touch football, he will get goals.
Ofcourse there are areas he needs to improve but without any quality signings, Martial will not be performing miracles.
It depends which Van Persie, you are talking about. The 24 years old version wouldn't be better but the 29 years old version would probably transform our attack, he was creative, strong and lethal around and in the box.
He certainly wouldn't score as many as he actually did with us with the team we currently have.
I feel a tad sorry for Martial.
I look at the way he plays & how deep he plays & really wonder - do we really need a CAM at all when they particularly don't do anything?
Wouldn't it be better to have 3 CM & allow martial to drop deep as CAM? Would that be the way he progresses his game more instead of pushing him to get more and more in to the box.
Or when we play 352 — why didn't we play 3511 with Martial behind Greenwood so martial can play like the support striker who drops deep and interlinks play.
He does literally the same exact thing like players like Lingard & Pereira whilst occupying another role in front of them - yet does it with ease by dropping back only when there is space and when the attack is free.
Seems like such a backwards club sometimes in terms of tactically getting the best out of players.
The CAM currently is the most useless thing in our attacking game, you could argue that City are with playing with 3 attacking midfielders in centre midfield that drift forward in to space due to their CDM and Liverpool neither have a CAM either & have a False 9 type player yet their creativity is spread evenly across wide areas as well.
The 4231 is holding us back because the number 10 and number 9 are too similar. Martial gets as much creativity and interlinking ability front the front line as Lingard & Pereira - & the number 10 is purely used for pressing.
I look at the way he plays & how deep he plays & really wonder - do we really need a CAM at all when they particularly don't do anything?
Wouldn't it be better to have 3 CM & allow martial to drop deep as CAM? Would that be the way he progresses his game more instead of pushing him to get more and more in to the box.
Or when we play 352 — why didn't we play 3511 with Martial behind Greenwood so martial can play like the support striker who drops deep and interlinks play.
He does literally the same exact thing like players like Lingard & Pereira whilst occupying another role in front of them - yet does it with ease by dropping back only when there is space and when the attack is free.
Seems like such a backwards club sometimes in terms of tactically getting the best out of players.
The CAM currently is the most useless thing in our attacking game, you could argue that City are with playing with 3 attacking midfielders in centre midfield that drift forward in to space due to their CDM and Liverpool neither have a CAM either & have a False 9 type player yet their creativity is spread evenly across wide areas as well.
The 4231 is holding us back because the number 10 and number 9 are too similar. Martial gets as much creativity and interlinking ability front the front line as Lingard & Pereira - & the number 10 is purely used for pressing.
Man City 0:1 Man Utd
He is an expert at taking up all the wrong spaces when we have the ball in attacking positions.
One thing that stands out between Rashford and Martial when they both have a poor performance is you can never accuse Rashford of being invisible. He keeps on running and trying to force the ball in his poor days. Martial just goes fully invisible mode and sometimes you can hardly know he's actually playing. Today I noticed him about 2 times only in the second half. When he's having a poor day it's simply as if you're playing minus one player.
Anyway I'm still on my point. This lad will be upgraded in 2 years at best, might be next summer even. Too many flaws for a main striker. Him dropping deep all the time is a hindrance rather than helping anyone. Can't see Bruno enjoying playing with him that much.
Anyway I'm still on my point. This lad will be upgraded in 2 years at best, might be next summer even. Too many flaws for a main striker. Him dropping deep all the time is a hindrance rather than helping anyone. Can't see Bruno enjoying playing with him that much.
Looks like the lad is not fully fit. Not going to recover for the next game in the prem
Finding a first choice caliber striker in the summer must be a priority. He's far from good enough to be first choice, and Rashford has made the left wing spot his own. Still has a future here as a rotation player, but I'm afraid he won't ever be good enough to be a first choice player.
This. He might as well stand by the corner flag. He's got no idea where a centre forward is supposed to be.
He needs competition.
He's been absolutely appalling for the last few weeks now. Rashford was carrying that front 3 and now it's more evident than ever. Need a massive upgrade on him in the summer.
Fecking useless. When Martials shit, he's really really shit.
Still struggling to figure out if that’s the plan. It was exactly the same when he was injured with Rashford up front. And it’s the same when Greenwood plays there.
Really disappointing but unsurprising performances now he’s supposed to be the main man. Shrinking. Barely made any runs and was poor throughout.
Rubbish. Even straight-forward chest control seemed beyond him. Failed to link the play, poor shots, lost possession cheaply.
- Status