[roonster09]

You're still getting hung up on "excuses". I told you previously no need to think in that manner. When you start thinking about blame, defend, excuses, etc. then it means your mind is most likely already set and we're just wasting our time here.

True, maybe Auba will be able to anticipate those crosses better and score more goals, but then again Auba requires massive help in the build up play, so we're back to the "Lukaku" problem again.

There are always pros and cons with players, it's up to us to decide if the pros outweigh the cons. In our case, we decided the cons of a poacher type outweighed his pros, and thus we're using a F9 type in Martial. Since we decided this, we need to figure out how to get the best out of such a player, and I'm not convinced crosses to the far post is it.

How do you explain all the posts then? Everyone of them is just excuses, instead of pointing out the actual problem and where the players should improve. What you and others have done is, blame James who has done really well as the problem player, not compatible with Rashford and Martial when he has linked up very well with Rashford and both are on same wave length.

It's not crosses to far post, it's crossing with CF not making near post runs which is something so basic that you expect from any attacking player.

I also said to you previously that if Dan James was technically brilliant then it wouldn't matter, as such players can move wherever they want on the field due to their excellent technique. You just mentioned 3 technically excellent wingers who's close control is such that they can cut in from both wings. If Dan James manages to develop that then, sure he could be a goal scorer. But all evidence thus far points to him sticking to the outside and crossing when on the RW.

Sancho would fit in as he's not limited by his technique wherever he plays.

Likewise if we are talking about player of Ronaldo, Hazard, Lewandowski class we can talk about how to fit the team to get best out of the said players, but we are talking about Martial who has everything to prove. Forget those class players, even if we are talking about Firmino who is like a CM playing in AM/ST position then yeah, we can talk about how others around him are letting him down but that's not the case with Martial.

well the examples are to show, which footed player plays on which wing doesn't matter. Reason why they are goal threat even though they play as wingers is, they play for a team that plays dominant style, with lot of movement.

Right now, the discussion shouldn't be whether James can fit in, he has showed that he is good enough. Question should be, can Martial step up after him getting new bumper contract, playing in his favored position with 2 very pacey players playing next to him.

For me, I don't mind the way Martial has played this season. He has done well in most games with few poor ones. I just find it strange that people just throw everyone under the bus to defend the player they love, instead of criticizing them for not playing well.

James is not technically limited player, he has showed that he is good in tight space and has good ball control.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Likewise if we are talking about player of Ronaldo, Hazard, Lewandowski class we can talk about how to fit the team to get best out of the said players, but we are talking about Martial who has everything to prove. Forget those class players, even if we are talking about Firmino who is like a CM playing in AM/ST position then yeah, we can talk about how others around him are letting him down but that's not the case with Martial.

well the examples are to show, which footed player plays on which wing doesn't matter. Reason why they are goal threat even though they play as wingers is, they play for a team that plays dominant style, with lot of movement.

Right now, the discussion shouldn't be whether James can fit in, he has showed that he is good enough. Question should be, can Martial step up after him getting new bumper contract, playing in his favored position with 2 very pacey players playing next to him.

Agree with most of these except the bolded part. The way I see it, a goal scorer would fit in better on the right, although James has done well and is a good player. I've said this before, I've not slated James (or at least tried my best not to), and praised him as much as I can. I can only say the same thing so many times, in so many different ways.

For me, I don't mind the way Martial has played this season. He has done well in most games with few poor ones. I just find it strange that people just throw everyone under the bus to defend the player they love, instead of criticizing them for not playing well.

I think this is the crux of it. If you look in James' thread you'll see I mentioned these things a awhile back when Martial was widely regarded as playing well and there was no need to "defend" him. But I think you're hung up on this, so I can't change your mind.

I'll conclude with saying that if we can find a player who helps in build up and also runs to finish James' crosses then we should by all means go for him and replace Martial with him, but I think it will be more efficient and effective to use a goal scorer on the right instead who can play similar to Rashford. I'd like us to try Greenwood on the right for a few games and see what he can do in the first team attack. That's probably going to be my position for the foreseeable future unless something changes.

 

[roonster09]

Agree with most of these except the bolded part. The way I see it, a goal scorer would fit in better on the right, although James has done well and is a good player. I've said this before, I've not slated James (or at least tried my best not to), and praised him as much as I can. I can only say the same thing so many times, in so many different ways.



I think this is the crux of it. If you look in James' thread you'll see I mentioned these things a awhile back when Martial was widely regarded as playing well and there was no need to "defend" him. But I think you're hung up on this, so I can't change your mind.

I'll conclude with saying that if we can find a player who helps in build up and also runs to finish James' crosses then we should by all means go for him and replace Martial with him, but I think it will be more efficient and effective to use a goal scorer on the right instead who can play similar to Rashford. I'd like us to try Greenwood on the right for a few games and see what he can do in the first team attack. That's probably going to be my position for the foreseeable future unless something changes.

I don't know why you keep repeating "I said same thing in James thread" when my post wasn't directed at only you, it was in general for the people who started to play down James to defend Martial (like you did in few posts). You might have done it before and consistent with your views but others aren't. They just twist everything to suit Martial.

We should use Greenwood on the right as that's the next step in his development, I would love to see that as Greenwood is very talented player who can be our goal scoring winger from right side. He should start because he is superb talent, not because Martial can't cope with James' pace. That's my point. Not everything should revolve around Martial, he hasn't done anything to have that sort of importance.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don't know why you keep repeating "I said same thing in James thread" when my post wasn't directed at only you, it was in general for the people who started to play down James to defend Martial (like you did in few posts).

Well then you have to specify that, or else obviously I will assume a post addressed to me is talking about me. And as you can see, I was right in saying I can't change your mind with regards to the bolded, and my attempts have been futile. Thus, I'll leave you to that.

He should start because he is superb talent, not because Martial can't cope with James' pace. That's my point. Not everything should revolve around Martial, he hasn't done anything to have that sort of importance.

We should do what's best for the team. That's why we got rid of Lukaku for a much less proven Martial. That's not anything revolving around Martial, that's just trying to make the team better.

My posts have been to my views of making the team better, with regards to Martial, James, and the others. Again nothing to do with revolving around Martial, but like I've said countless times it seems you're stuck in that way of thinking so no way to change your mind.

 

[roonster09]

Well then you have to specify that, or else obviously I will assume a post addressed to me is talking about me. And as you can see, I was right in saying I can't change your mind with regards to the bolded, and my attempts have been futile. Thus, I'll leave you to that.



We should do what's best for the team. That's why we got rid of Lukaku for a much less proven Martial. That's not anything revolving around Martial, that's just trying to make the team better.

My posts have been to my views of making the team better, with regards to Martial, James, and the others. Again nothing to do with revolving around Martial, but like I've said countless times it seems you're stuck in that way of thinking so no way to change your mind.

Stuck in what way? Maybe you don't know, I always defend Martial when he plays well and always supported him when he was dropped. I dont have any set ways of thinking, I go by what they show on pitch.

Even in the post you responded to, I clearly said I have no problem with how Martial has played this season.

Maybe you are stuck in your own ways where you think any criticism on players means they are Anti-player. It's good to come out of that mindset and rate players based players based on their performances.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Stuck in what way? Maybe you don't know, I always defend Martial when he plays well and always supported him when he was dropped. I dont have any set ways of thinking, I go by what they show on pitch.

Even in the post you responded to, I clearly said I have no problem with how Martial has played this season.

Maybe you are stuck in your own ways where you think any criticism on players means they are Anti-player. It's good to come out of that mindset and rate players based players based on their performances.

Well, I try not to do that which is why I don't say people "defend", "attack", "make excuses for", players etc. I just try to give opinions without any of that kind of thing. It's a bit annoying when I'm trying to give an opinion and then I'm constantly accused of defending a player, even when there's evidence to the contrary from a while back.

I never used any of that language until you constantly kept saying that stuff, at which point I realized you must be already coming with that point of view and imposing it on me. No, I'm not defending or attacking anyone, so it's best if we both drop that mindset entirely, as I've already said a few times prior.

I think we both generally agree with regards to Martial's overall performance. It's just the balance with Dan James we disagree on. And that's not a matter of defending or attacking any player, just different viewpoints.

 

[roonster09]

Well, I try not to do that which is why I don't say people "defend", "attack", "make excuses for", players etc. I just try to give opinions without any of that kind of thing. It's a bit annoying when I'm trying to give an opinion and then I'm constantly accused of defending a player, even when there's evidence to the contrary from a while back.

I never used any of that language until you constantly kept saying that stuff, at which point I realized you must be already coming with that point of view and imposing it on me. No I'm not defending anyone, so it's best if we both drop that mindset entirely.

I think we both agree with regards to Martial's general performances. It's just the balance with Dan James we disagree on. And that's not a matter of defending or attacking any player, just different viewpoints.

Your opinion sounded like making excuses for Martial and downplaying James.

I'll just leave at this. Hopefully he will be back to his best, scoring and assisting goals.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He needed that goal. Happy for him.

 

[MikeKing]

He needed that goal. Happy for him.

Yes. He probably should have had another one too but he decided to not be selfish and passed the ball to Williams who had his shot blocked. I like the fact he is not selfish in his play but I would like him to be more lethal in certain positions and score more consistently from those. That would make him a lot better.

 

[He'sRaldo]

He needed that goal. Happy for him.

The beaming smile afterwards was brilliant. Seems he's been reading the internet.

 

[André Dominguez]

The beaming smile afterwards was brilliant. Seems he's been reading the internet.

I'm pretty sure most of them probably peek this forum. Or at least have someone that does the social network / internet forums research for them.

 

[Raven]

The only thing to discuss about Martial at this point is how much we can sell him for.
Its almost unanimous at this point that Greenwood is better.
It also seems we are looking for another striker or two possibly.

Martial's days are numbered. We are done with him. And good riddance is all I can say. Very frustrating player.

Pure unadulterated nonsense. Fair play.

 

[OldTrevil]

I have really enjoyed watching this guy's center forward play so far this season and can't wait to see him improve and master the position. Kudos as well to Ole for finally playing him in his natural position, where his talents can be maximized for the benefit of the team. A Benzema type striker, Tony is the perfect foil for creating a multi-dimensional attack that is a nightmare to defend against. He can do all you need at the point: hold up, build up, trickery and goals. He's certainly not a Rooney or Tevez type battering ram, and never needs to be one to become the best. I hope staying out of the limelight and the adulation of charlatans in the media will allow him to better work on his craft and improving his fitness, the only obstacle I can forsee in his quest to greatness.

 

[Andersonson]

He needs to score more, pure and simple. Hopefully that goal is a bit of a boost

 

[Bebestation]

He needs to score more, pure and simple. Hopefully that goal is a bit of a boost

Well it really depends on the tactic -

You play a player like Martial - you need a player like Rashford & Daniel James to lead the line and score the goals. Is James doing that?

You play a player like Daniel James at RW then you can't necessarily have Martial or Rashford at ST either because they aren't predatory for his crosses.

You buy a predatory central striker, you play a 433 and Daniel James out wide but you might find that Rashford & Martial struggle out on the left proving attacking support and being fluid like we occasionally saw with Zlatan or sometimes with Lukaku. Will they provide crosses from the left?

It's all about the system and the players included?

Martial isn't perfect & he might struggle & move on - but people seem to think that Haaland a left footed striker knocks Martial straight out of United. I don't think so. In my mind it actually makes Martial's role easier having players like Rashford & Haaland or Greenwood playing in partnership with Martial playing deeper to get the ball ticking towards them.

Haaland is a physical predatory footballer - but he is widely regarded as a complete striker at his age than just someone who relies on crosses to finishes of chances in comparison to Lukaku. I'd be surprised if Ole used James & Haaland as our Plan A when that sounds much more like a plan B option.

 

[Canagel]

He needs to score more, pure and simple. Hopefully that goal is a bit of a boost

Nope. And that goal is not a boost for him because he does far more for the team than scoring only. His mere presence makes the team play better and that's enough. Go and see Rashfords form with and without Martial etc.
The only thing it means is that it will be more quieter on this thread but his performance doesn't depend on goal scoring ,unlike the typical number 9.

 

[Canagel]

He needed that goal. Happy for him.

He didn't need it. But it's good for the scoresheet

 

[Hawks2008]

He needs to score more, pure and simple. Hopefully that goal is a bit of a boost

Pretty much, he has 0 presence in the penalty area and it shows in our attacking play. The excuses made for him are funny, especially now that martial fc are spinning the narrative that he is some sacrificial foil for our other forwards.

But hey he has nice close control so it's all good.

 

[Bebestation]

Yuck this Martial FC thing sounds like people who would be supporting Liverpool FC if they were born in this era and not in the SAF era. Gold diggers and winners.

It's United FC not Martial FC. If your not supporting your players until they wear a different shirt or say something wrong to the media or Twitter then let's not rub your fingers on other fans face for being a better supporter than them - because your not okay?

Disgusting rubbish. We have two strikers with one being under 20. When we get another then we can see if Martial is good enough. Ruining all the support for Martial whilst he is here and he needs it is a bit low & is very Liverpool FC.

Like all the new Salah Origi & Mane supporters at the kebab shops I see.

Literally the same rubbish said for Rashford and everyone on the pitch whenever they don't get to sleep with their gold.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He didn't need it. But it's good for the scoresheet

Of course he did, recent crticism, Haaland rumours on his back. Greenwood's form. He needs to be scoring and doing all he can.

 

[hmchan]

I guess Neville and Giggs have both pinpointed Martial's problem recently: sometimes he looks worldclass, but sometimes he can hardly participate in the game.

He is definitely more threatening when he plays near the goal, but he has to improve his center forward play to become a top striker. His lack of off-the-ball movement is one of the reasons why we can't break down tight defence, and his inability to create spaces for the "3" in a 4-2-3-1 system makes it worse. Benzema, Giroud, Costa may not score plenty of goals, but they could efficiently provide chances for their teammates, and Martial has to work on this aspect.

No doubt Martial is a great talent with loads of potential, but improvement is needed or he will just be another failed wonderkid.

 

[Andersonson]

Nope. And that goal is not a boost for him because he does far more for the team than scoring only. His mere presence makes the team play better and that's enough. Go and see Rashfords form with and without Martial etc.
The only thing it means is that it will be more quieter on this thread but his performance doesn't depend on goal scoring ,unlike the typical number 9.

Weird that our manager has said he needs to get in scoring positions more often then.....

Of course over all play is important, but he scores to little. Hence why our manager says he needs to be more in the right positions

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Had a fantastic opening 5 minutes.

 

[KennyBurner]

Good game from him. Team massively let him down today. Could have had 3 assists and a goal himself. He needs to continue playing in this manner consistently every week.

 

[Shejkus]

As I've said earlier he has no one two do one twos with except for Pogba. Rashford & James pace merchants it's impossible to ball when you're the only baller amongst players that rely on pace.

 

[Santoryo]

People will flock here to shit on him and Pogba easily created the most chance and was a threat when we finally decided to play when Pogba came in.

 

[HowYouDoin]

Came to life in the 2nd half. Was it because Pogba came on or because he was on the left or both?
Still, I am done with him. Sure he shows flashes sometimes but fool me twice....
Im done with him but he did look good in the 2nd half.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He was good for the opening 5 minutes, when invisible for 75 mins then had a few good moments when he came to the left. Really not good enough, why kid yourselves?

 

[acnumber9]

As I've said earlier he has no one two do one twos with except for Pogba. Rashford & James pace merchants it's impossible to ball when you're the only baller amongst players that rely on pace.

Baller....ball bag maybe.

 

[Red_toad]

People will flock here to shit on him and Pogba easily created the most chance and was a threat when we finally decided to play when Pogba came in.

Would seem it's the opposite, hs defenders have flocked on here.

Looked better on the left as he always had.

 

[poleglass red]

I'd gladly accept this pos never playing for us again

 

[Ludens the Red]

Thought he looked so much better on the left. I think we need to end the experiment of him as a cf. he doesn’t have the instincts and our rubbish staff don’t seem to be able to implement it into his game.

Apart from the city game I’ve not see him play that centre forward role like a proper centre forward.

 

[Nick7]

He’s absolutely not good enough up front.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Was okay today but he turns up when he wants and it can be a big problem as he doesn't often change games.

Maybe I'm being harsh singling him out but I want to see more as he has the talent.

 

[Sanchez7]

Had some good moments like the through ball for Lingard but has to do more.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Would say he was probably our man of the match but he cemented it once Pogba was on. It really goes to show what he could be if you can get people that can pass and move around him. He got caught offside twice because Lingard is trash and takes a few minutes to make a decision.
Flip that around as to when Martial slipped him through control and pass before Lingard had even decided there was space there.
Hold up was good, link up was good, pressing was good, created chances for himself and others overall a very good performance.

I quite like how he is developing in to the leader of the front 4. He’s the one always starting the press and making sure the others are following him up.

 

[Canagel]

People will flock here to shit on him and Pogba easily created the most chance and was a threat when we finally decided to play when Pogba came in.

The only footballers on this team. I hope that we get more players on their wave

 

[Dec9003]

I thought he was a lot better than when we played Everton.
The only real problem I had with him today is he’s offside a lot.
It’s probably partly due to Lingard feeding him, but he’s quick enough to not be offside so often.

 

[kouroux]

Always better on the left

 

[Vidyoyo]

People will flock here to shit on him and Pogba easily created the most chance and was a threat when we finally decided to play when Pogba came in.

Most are saying he turns up when he wants, which is genuine criticism I think.

He has moments of good as he's a decent player. Biggest issue is that he rarely changes games despite his elevated position in our squad (ie an automatic starter).

That said, not the worst player today at all.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It was a rancid display from the whole team. Martial was probably least bad player I thought overall.