[Andersons Dietician]

I've watched that back and I think if you're heralding those things as a good game the bar is just so low - to take the high road and accuse people of not being able to 'watch football' and talking nonsense is just laughably egotistical.

His movement for the goal is bare minimum stuff, he comes short to Matic, then turns and gets into the box, almost running on top of Rashford, it's Martial's man who actually gets the block on Rashfords shot so it doesn't really take anyone away and he's already beaten 2 other defenders at that stage, it causes Martial's marker to make a step to follow him but again, it's bare minimum stuff - that goal is 98% Matic & Rashford.

His assist is grand, he drops in and slips in Jesse, but it's an easy pass and AC had switched off.

Not to mention he was covering the crosser for their second goal and was so easily beaten then made a lame attempt at blocking the ball in, glossed over.

Again I don't want to come off harsh on Martial but I just don't see any objectivity in this thread! There's been lots of positive stuff from him during the Tour but I think there's still visible issues there that will be exposed during the season and it's fine to discuss those, objectively!

Spoiler: Goals

I don’t think anyone is saying his game is perfect but yesterday he did all the things you want a striker to do and unfortunately our team wasn’t at it so we literally created nothing for the likes of Rashford and he to feed off of.

Side not that defender that blocked the shot went with the run of martial then realised Rashford wasn’t passing the ball and the direct danger was Rashford. If that run doesn’t happen he maybe closes Rashford quicker or is able to get himself in a better position but he was moved by Martial and unable to set. You might see that as minimal involvement but coaches will see that as a big bit of involvement.

For the second goal yes it’s an easy pass for Jesse which makes you wonder why people like Mata, Rashford or Jesse can’t do the same thing for the positions that Martial picks up that are similar. Even Shaw got in a similar situation yesterday and Rashford ignored it in favour of a shot.

For the block that’s just a good bit of play to create that space. He is trying to get the block in as for objectivity in this thread you’re correct there isn’t much of it. But how people can watch yesterday’s game and watch what he was doing then slag off his effort or say he was coasting to me they either don’t know anything about football or weren’t watching what he and Rashford were doing. Because they made lots of runs, blocked passing lanes, pressed people when they had to and they were let down by people behind them. Any striker would have had a quiet game in terms of impact yesterday but too often we get people spouting rubbish because they don’t pay attention and notice our strikers whoever they are are doing the workm making the runs and no one picks them out.

If people are going to expect any of our strikers to score 20 a season when the team behind them performs like yesterday then you’re in for a shock.

 

[KennyBurner]

My main concern is our goalscoring ability, as much as we criticise Lukaku for his style of play, he will guarantee you 20 goals a season. Can you see realistically see Martial providing that many? I bloody hope so anyway..

He hasn't kicked on how I would have hoped but hopefully this central role will be the catalyst. He will now be playing his preferred position and HAS to be be scoring for us, there are no excuses now.

If we persist with Anthony down the middle rotating with Rashford I feel that we desperately need Dybala due to his ability to score outside the box.

If he plays as many minutes as lukaku Im pretty sure he will get more. The minutes to goal ratio for lukaku is pretty poor if we checked it out. These things matter.

 

[KennyBurner]

Yeah, I'm struggling to see what additional threat he brings ahead of Lukaku or even Sanchez. But the season kicks off next week so let's see how he really goes from there.

This is the reason people say there is an agenda against martial. How could you watch sanchez last season and struggle to see what threat martial brings to the side? Pace alone was enough before we even bring goals into the equation.

 

[VP89]

This is the reason people say there is an agenda against martial. How could you watch sanchez last season and struggle to see what threat martial brings to the side? Pace alone was enough before we even bring goals into the equation.

What did Martial do exactly? He was subpar last season and was suggested to improve his movement under 2 managers.

You don't just chuck players in for the sake of pace and nothing else. We have bucket loads without him. I want to know what he's bringing to the table that adds value to the team. I want to see him start this season in a position he prefers without any excuses and actually perform consistently. He hasn't taken to preseason as well as id have expected, but let's see how he starts the real games.

 

[Duafc]

I don’t think anyone is saying his game is perfect but yesterday he did all the things you want a striker to do and unfortunately our team wasn’t at it so we literally created nothing for the likes of Rashford and he to feed off of.

Side not that defender that blocked the shot went with the run of martial then realised Rashford wasn’t passing the ball and the direct danger was Rashford. If that run doesn’t happen he maybe closes Rashford quicker or is able to get himself in a better position but he was moved by Martial and unable to set. You might see that as minimal involvement but coaches will see that as a big bit of involvement.

For the second goal yes it’s an easy pass for Jesse which makes you wonder why people like Mata, Rashford or Jesse can’t do the same thing for the positions that Martial picks up that are similar. Even Shaw got in a similar situation yesterday and Rashford ignored it in favour of a shot.

For the block that’s just a good bit of play to create that space. He is trying to get the block in as for objectivity in this thread you’re correct there isn’t much of it. But how people can watch yesterday’s game and watch what he was doing then slag off his effort or say he was coasting to me they either don’t know anything about football or weren’t watching what he and Rashford were doing. Because they made lots of runs, blocked passing lanes, pressed people when they had to and they were let down by people behind them. Any striker would have had a quiet game in terms of impact yesterday but too often we get people spouting rubbish because they don’t pay attention and notice our strikers whoever they are are doing the workm making the runs and no one picks them out.

If people are going to expect any of our strikers to score 20 a season when the team behind them performs like yesterday then you’re in for a shock.

I mostly agree with all of that aside from I come down slightly more harshly on those things I suppose.

I just think it's important not to go too far down to line of, 'well those behind him didn't do enough for him'.

There is definitely an element of truth in it - our creativity and incision from midfield and out wide is diabolical, though slowly improving I think - but as I said yesterday, good runs make good passes, there has to be a similar onus on the striker to involve themselves and demand the balls/involvements with their running and general play - it's much more 50/50 than 'ah sure no one laid it on a plate for him when he made that 10 yard run off the defender's shoulder.'

Rashford, who was immensely wasteful yesterday still showed a little more desire to actually make things happen and his runs were certainly picked out more - though I think if you put Rashford 9 and Martial LW it would have been the exact same outcome - both just seem much more comfortable in that role coming off the wing, though they play it very differently.

 

[KennyBurner]

There are a lot of flaws in Martial's game but pressing is something I'd forgive for Martial, we aren't a complete pressing unit yet and it's pointless to waste energy to press a CB when your teammates aren't cutting out passing lanes/pressing other players, a lone striker running at a defender will get easily passed around.

This is pretty much the same reason I dont give him any flack for not pressing 100% of the time. We just dont know how to press as a unit. Compared to lukaku who never used to move at all and would rather point, martial actually makes the effort once our midfielders push up. You just cant expect a forward to run around in a triangle while the opposition defenders pass it around. He will tire easily.

 

[Grande]

The drop off wasn't that much but point taken and I guess our team was of the ability that arguably Real was a step down to playing here at that time.

Yes, not a big drop off, except maybe for Ruud, who went from being almost a one man attack at United (at his peak) to becoming a very good back up striker at Madrid. Still very good, though.

I remember when Becks left, I was disappointed in Fergie for giving up on him, as I didn’t buy into the ‘attitude problems’ angle that much. At the same time I felt that it was a bit of a hustle towards Real Madrid, as the sum they payed was (at the time) way above the player they got. It was perhaps the ultimate ‘Marquee Signing’, for a player that was largely displaced on the right wing by a striner the year before (Ole Gunnar Solskjær). Still thought Becks did great at Madrid though. Well, well, memory lane.

Back to Martial. If he puts in the shift he’s done this pre-season, and improves his runs and interplay further, which I expect him to, I think this will be his best season yet. Which it will need to be.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I just think it's important not to go too far down to line of, 'well those behind him didn't do enough for him'.

I do agree strikers need to position themselves and make the runs so they are making the decision for the player on the ball but as far as I can see Rashford and Martial are doing this and in pre-season it’s shown until yesterday when for whatever reason there was too large of a gap between midfield and our forwards where every game before hand they’ve been right up and in the faces of the opposition. For 20 minutes we did this and then the midfield retreated to something more akin to what we saw under Jose.

Rashford and Martial still continued to try but that midfield didn’t work and for me let down our forwards. I think things massively picked up once Mata and Matic were removed and we put more energy in the team with Fred, Gomes, James and the likes. They got up and moved us up the field and the midfield was closer to the attackers.

 

[Art Vandelay]

The game just passes him by.

He's the same player from 4 years ago. His short passing game is maddeningly poor too. He misplaces so many easy passes.

I'd sell him if given the chance.

The problem is finding someone who not only wants him, but will pay him the ridiculous wages for what he delivers. We are stuck with him so may as well make the best of it. Personally I don't think we will get anywhere persisting with him and Rashford, it has to be one or the other as neither seem to have enough of a footballing brain for the rest of the attack to have to make the decisions for them.

One of his non-event games yesterday. The game passes on by and he's there spectating it. He just day dreams through the match with the occasional burst of energy here and there. He's such an infuriating player because you know how talented he is, but his application is awful sometimes.

Also, his short range passing needs to improve dramatically.

This is one of the things that used to baffle me the most when people were imagining Martial being better in the positions we weren't playing him in. Evidence al along has been that he's not a very good short passer a lot of the time, he can be very sloppy with it. So why do people think he needs to be in the middle with people bouncing passes off him? He's a good finisher and occasionally a good dribbler, but the rest of his game is average to poor.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Yeah... but that's then the midfields problem, it still has to start from your forwards.

The difference in the last 20/30 after our subs was night and day in terms of the press although Milan's fitness and B team being on at that stage obviously has a lot to do with it.

I think Martial probably does fit into the second group, though I think this pre season he has shown more running and pressing that I can remember ever before, and importantly doing it the right way in angling his runs and closing off passing lanes. I just think he'll struggle to sustain it as at a base level he's not interested in it.

Again pressing doesn't really start from anywhere, its a collective responsibility. Yes as soon as possession is lost upfield, the forwards begin the press but when you know that your midfield isn't going to press, then really its a wasted effort from the start. No one here knows what Martial is interested in on the football pitch, my point is if your entire team is collectively pressing and Martial alone is not pressing then he will stick out like a sore thumb, that hasn't happened yet.

 

[BusbyMalone]

This is one of the things that used to baffle me the most when people were imagining Martial being better in the positions we weren't playing him in. Evidence al along has been that he's not a very good short passer a lot of the time, he can be very sloppy with it. So why do people think he needs to be in the middle with people bouncing passes off him? He's a good finisher and occasionally a good dribbler, but the rest of his game is average to poor.

Yeah, he's a strange player in the sense that it's hard to workout where best to play him. He has pace, of course, and i actually think his close control dribbling is very good. But his short range passing is poor and his off the ball moment is very average. His poor off the ball movement comes back to his day dreaming. He just lacks that sharpness of mind sometimes and just watches the game pass him by.

It's something he drastically needs to improve on. Don't know if it's an attitude thing or lack of ability. I assume it's the former.

 

[ManchesterYoda]

Martial last season

Playing on the left: 14 starts, 8 goals, 2 assists, average rating 7.26
Playing central: 4 starts, 2 goals, 0 assists, average rating 7.07

Better than 7/10 in both positions over the course of a fecking awful season, so that's a reason to be optimistic.
He is better playing from the left and always has been.
I believe he should start the season as our inverted left sided attacker.
14 starts and 10 goals+assists is equivalent to 28 starts and 20 goals+assists.

 

[Adisa]

He will improve in the position. We have to persist.

 

[Litch]

Yes, not a big drop off, except maybe for Ruud, who went from being almost a one man attack at United (at his peak) to becoming a very good back up striker at Madrid. Still very good, though.

I remember when Becks left, I was disappointed in Fergie for giving up on him, as I didn’t buy into the ‘attitude problems’ angle that much. At the same time I felt that it was a bit of a hustle towards Real Madrid, as the sum they payed was (at the time) way above the player they got. It was perhaps the ultimate ‘Marquee Signing’, for a player that was largely displaced on the right wing by a striner the year before (Ole Gunnar Solskjær). Still thought Becks did great at Madrid though. Well, well, memory lane.

Back to Martial. If he puts in the shift he’s done this pre-season, and improves his runs and interplay further, which I expect him to, I think this will be his best season yet. Which it will need to be.

Agree, the other great teams like the one RVN played in, he knew there also were goals throughout that team so less pressure for him to score to win games, the biggest problem for the modern Utd forward is it's down to them with maybe some help from Pogs. Also RVN had Giggs and Becks crossing along with Scholes creating. Massive, Massive difference.....

 

[Canagel]

 

[charlenefan]

I hope he does it because this really does have to be his last chance this season

 

[spiriticon]

Give back to him the No.9 for the new season.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Give back to him the No.9 for the new season.

Is there any news regarding this? When are the squad numbers confirmed?

 

[Prodigy24]

Switched to number 9 again. He's about to destroy the league again.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

AM9 is back

 

[Swiss_Red89]

good news! Hope he hits the ground running again as our number 9. Have really high hopes for him this season.

 

[VeevaVee]

Bit of a joke really. Hasn't done a thing to earn it. He better show he's worth it. Even if he does it shows he's a sulky bastard though.

 

[bosnian_red]

Taking it back right away, feel like it's pretty clear he always wanted the #9 and was annoyed at losing it. Maybe back to #9 Tony martial (but even better) in performances too!

 

[Zoo]

Jose shouldn’t have taken it off him in the first place. Good for him that he's willing to embrace it again.

 

[ash_86]

AM9

 

[FootyGirl88]

Switched to number 9 again. He's about to destroy the league again.

Yay! Good for him, shouldn't have taken it from him in the first place.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

feel like him as a 9 will be much better. it was just too obvious how we had him playing before. Teams knew we couldnt do jackshit over on the right side of our attack, and everything went through the left. Not many runs in behind the defense so teams could contract things even more. We played it in to martials feet, and tried to see if he could beat 2-3 men with the ball at his feet while everyone else barely moved. Hopefully this year is different and we actually make a LB defend each game. Swear i could play LB against united most games last year, literally no joke.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Best finisher at the club, really hope this is his season.

 

[bosnian_red]

Think hes going to have a great season.

 

[ChaddyP]

Bit of a joke really. Hasn't done a thing to earn it. He better show he's worth it. Even if he does it shows he's a sulky bastard though.

Think it was a bit of a joke taking it from him in the first place. Did everything right in his first season then was stripped of it to facilitate Zlatans ego

 

[Renegade]

Jose shouldn’t have taken it off him in the first place. Good for him that he's willing to embrace it again.

It’s petty but he should have at least asked him before taking it off him.
Especially as Zlatan wore 11 for Milan so doubt he would have been bothered.

 

[Silas]

For those that haven't seen the tweet.

 

[Canagel]

For those that haven't seen the tweet.

Fantastic. The number 9 shirt returns to it's rightful owner.

 

[VeevaVee]

Think it was a bit of a joke taking it from him in the first place. Did everything right in his first season then was stripped of it to facilitate Zlatans ego

If we're going there, he probably shouldn't have been given it anyway. Regardless of whether that's the case, he's done absolutely nothing under Ole to show he should have it.

 

[Canagel]

Martial FC we eating good tonight.

 

[friendlytramp]

9

 

[VeevaVee]

Martial FC we eating good tonight.

You all died of starvation months ago

 

[ChaddyP]

If we're going there, he probably shouldn't have been given it anyway. Regardless of whether that's the case, he's done absolutely nothing under Ole to show he should have it.

Why not. Its not like its some holy grail shirt. He did well in his first season and proved he had what it takes to be an important player for us.

 

[podurban2]

Number 9!

 

[VeevaVee]

Why not. Its not like its some holy grail shirt. He did well in his first season and proved he had what it takes to be an important player for us.

Doesn't matter now. The point is he's been pap for years