Anelka was great at dropping deep as he got older and matured. What are you on about. His little flicks and neat touches at Chelsea.
very complete forward
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 23
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
very complete forward
Maybe. The problem with the Henry comparisons is Henry was quite aggressive in burning people and skinning them down the channel. He loved that left channel and looked to take people out of the game
covid-19 or no covid-19, football or no football, thank baby jesus we can always bash Martial
Don’t worry, I believe there’s zero chance of the club giving up on Martial. They’re not as nutty as some people in this thread seem to be.
Benzema, if anything.
Thank you so much. Showing a video exactly why Anelka is nothing like Martial, not a single pass in that video, not an ability to drop deep and an intent to interlink the wider attack - just score goals like Haaland and co.
No flicks and tricks. No back towards goal.
Find a better video for me.
Watch this and tell me how this looks like Anelka to you except from him having the same passport and same smile to his haters.
Try find a video where anelka plays like that for me.
There was a video of Martial where you could see his vision that I posted literally 2 weeks ago but it's gotten deleted on YouTube so I had to just find you a random one now.
I hope you can see it. If not then continue with the anelka rubbish.
You realise that several goals in that video involved Anelka dropping deep which is the thing you initially argued against? You're now moving the goal posts demanding back towards goal, tricks and flicks and an intent to interlink the wider attack from a time before Youtube compilations of every touch a player makes were a thing.
Mate I've been talking about Martial dropping deep from a strikers position which is a completely different kettle of fish to a striker who starts in a deep position which anyone like Anelka or Haaland can find themselves in
So what now Firmino is like Anelka because both find themselves deep? Note I didn't say anything about martial there.
Very poor understanding of football. The hatred for this guy is just abysmal. Not a single assist.
So now @Art Vandelay let me give you the benefit of the doubt because your football knowledge is questionable- anelka and Martial is similar yet , two managers use him as a left winger and one manager use him as a false 9 only to use him as a proper CF when out goal scoring left winger is injured
So tell me - you are right and I was wrong, i initially asked for just for dropping back deep and you showed me videos of Anelka dribbling as shooting from deeper positions which included nothing more than pace
Now let's check your understanding further - tell me what else anelka could do to be similar one to one with martial, I will give you starting deep because I am feeling extremely nice today.
What else?
Mate I've been talking about Martial dropping deep from a strikers position which is a completely different kettle of fish to a striker who starts in a deep position which anyone like Anelka or Haaland can find themselves in
So what now Firmino is like Anelka because both find themselves deep? Note I didn't say anything about martial there.
Very poor understanding of football. The hatred for this guy is just abysmal. Not a single assist.
So now @Art Vandelay let me give you the benefit of the doubt because your football knowledge is questionable- anelka and Martial is similar yet , two managers use him as a left winger and one manager use him as a false 9 only to use him as a proper CF when out goal scoring left winger is injured
So tell me - you are right and I was wrong, i initially asked for just for dropping back deep and you showed me videos of Anelka dribbling as shooting from deeper positions which included nothing more than pace
Now let's check your understanding further - tell me what else anelka could do to be similar one to one with martial, I will give you starting deep because I am feeling extremely nice today.
What else?
I will tell you. Both can walk and both can run. Both can kick a football and both can head a football. Both are French. Both are male. Both played or plays professional football. Both are human beings and do similar things a human being does.
But as for their playing styles they are not similar at all but very different.
Anelka never drops deep. he just plays on the defenders shoulder apaprently.....
So one striker finds himself in a deep position to receive the ball, the other striker finds himself in a deep position to receive the ball?Mate I've been talking about Martial dropping deep from a strikers position which is a completely different kettle of fish to a striker who starts in a deep position which anyone like Anelka or Haaland can find themselves in
So what now Firmino is like Anelka because both find themselves deep? Note I didn't say anything about martial there.
Very poor understanding of football. The hatred for this guy is just abysmal. Not a single assist.
So now @Art Vandelay let me give you the benefit of the doubt because your football knowledge is questionable- anelka and Martial is similar yet , two managers use him as a left winger and one manager use him as a false 9 only to use him as a proper CF when out goal scoring left winger is injured
So tell me - you are right and I was wrong, i initially asked for just for dropping back deep and you showed me videos of Anelka dribbling as shooting from deeper positions which included nothing more than pace
Now let's check your understanding further - tell me what else anelka could do to be similar one to one with martial, I will give you starting deep because I am feeling extremely nice today.
What else?
God you are trying to be a football manager here and over complicating things. you need some rest. Having watched Anelka play I am old enough to verify his interlink was high standard. He played on a previous time when as Art said, they didn't youtube compile every touch a player makes. Anelka basically played more game on the wing for Chelsea than CF but this was probably before your time.
One of the issues with Anelka in 2010 for France was that he was playing too deep and Domenech hated that. Anelka was more a second striker than someone that plays on the defenders shoulders.
Right okay now get my age in to it which you have no idea about. I saw Anelka struggle all day at Chelsea and the guy just got worse and worse in comparison to someone like Henry who started off as a winger and turned in to a striker at Juventus.
Messi, Firmino, Totti, Martial and Anelka
All could play false 9 because they are off the same mould of player apparently.
Just forget it mate.
Anelka sticks out like a sore thumb out of that lot.
Goodnight.
Are you ok? You seem to be having some sort of breakdown because not everyone agrees with you on a football player. Calm down you fecking lunatic.Mate I've been talking about Martial dropping deep from a strikers position which is a completely different kettle of fish to a striker who starts in a deep position which anyone like Anelka or Haaland can find themselves in
So what now Firmino is like Anelka because both find themselves deep? Note I didn't say anything about martial there.
Very poor understanding of football. The hatred for this guy is just abysmal. Not a single assist.
So now @Art Vandelay let me give you the benefit of the doubt because your football knowledge is questionable- anelka and Martial is similar yet , two managers use him as a left winger and one manager use him as a false 9 only to use him as a proper CF when out goal scoring left winger is injured
So tell me - you are right and I was wrong, i initially asked for just for dropping back deep and you showed me videos of Anelka dribbling as shooting from deeper positions which included nothing more than pace
Now let's check your understanding further - tell me what else anelka could do to be similar one to one with martial, I will give you starting deep because I am feeling extremely nice today.
What else?
If you want to boil football down to boring old stats, you go right ahead. I prefer to watch games.
Why would you entertain someone who thinks Anelka was a poacher? Someone that thinks he could never assist? That he didn't have a great all round game?
Funny enough what was questioned about is the same as what's questioned about Martial. His desire, workrate and movement. Questioning the 'footballer' is crazy talk.
I'm it's up to him and the club whether he'll go down as an Anelka or Benzema or whether he'll down as a Fenomeno part 2. What differentiated the great Brazilian from the other guys was his movement and positioning. I really wish Anthony would watch his old games.(from Madrid onwards hence I write part 2, part 1 was something else completely)
Careful now, you're going to have a load of emoji's thrown at you and your football knowledge questioned if you keep up this outrageous disregard for the correct opinion.
I think there are similiarities. Anelka, as good as he was, never did reach the heights his early explosion into the game suggested he might. He was a bit of a victim of his own hype and mentality, which he did eventually overcome to have a good career. Just probably not as good as it could have been. I don't see Martial as 100% comparable to any of the players he's getting compared to though, he has similarities to a few, but I don't think even he knows what kind of player he is yet.
People lose all track of nuance in here anyway and you get the craziness we've had on the last few pages.
I can see what you're saying, but I think that's still vastly underselling just how good Ronaldo was. His positioning and movement were absolutely world class, but so was almost every other facet of his game. He could score any type of goal you wanted, he was unbelievably quick and seemed to get even quicker while dribbling. His dribbling was ridiculously good, his movement so graceful yet he could simply bulldoze defenders he was that strong. The guy was simply the perfect centre forward and I'd rate him as the best striker I've ever seen before the knees went. He was that good.
It's setting him up to fail to even mention Martial in the same breath as Ronaldo, as it would be for most players.
Anelka is United legend.
Actually I made the comparison to a young Anelka becuse he was a swift, deceptively strong runner in behind defences. He was exceptionally skillful too and like Martial was always a bit satisfied with one goal and rarely pushed for a second or a third goal. No idea why posters like Bebestation act like weird angry little internet gnomes when I'm not even slagging Martial off.
Henry is the easy comparison but he was a tad quicker, stronger and far more aggressive. For all of Henry's technical skill at dribbling he could be pretty kick and rush (Not unlike what Rashford often does) Martial's control of the ball in tight spaces is better than Henry's ever was. He has a rare skill in modern football, the ability to dribble through the centre.
In terms of talent I'd go so far as to say no young forward in the league touches him. I bet anything that he's up against Wan Bissaka in training all the time.
Does he have Erling Haaland's desire to score 30 a season? Well probably not but we can compensate for that.
No one compares to Ronaldo. He could do kick and rush and he could dribble at speed. He could muscle defenders off the ball, he could ghost past them. He was both a poacher and not. The way he could stop, then dribble at speed before stopping and accelerating again was unreal. It was a bit like watching a child operate a toy RC car. No one compares to him. O fenomeno for a reason.
Funny isn't it. Doesn't matter if he wins us games, scores in big games, his form being brilliant, football or no football, someone just got to find some way, something to bash Martial
Every player can be criticised and he is nowhere near the level to not face criticism. He is a good player but talked about like he is the GOAT in the making. He has talent and is one of the least of our issues at the moment. Would like to see him being fed by both Bruno and PogbaFunny isn't it. Doesn't matter if he wins us games, scores in big games, his form being brilliant, football or no football, someone just got to find some way, something to bash Martial
I'm good with Martial for now. His goal scoring tally this season is similar or better than the likes of Jimenez, Dembele Martinez and some others that part of the caf want and this is only his first season as a striker in a long while. Also add to the fact that Lingard and Pereira were the ones feeding him.
With Ighalo Martial Greenwood Rashford and Bruno, we don't have a problem with goals. There's no point splashing money on a striker when there are other areas that need addressing
Although, i honestly don't see Martial as the no.9 in a team that's challenging for the big titles. But then again we're still a few seasons (2 maybe) from challenging for the biggest trophies so we can make do with the attackers we have now while we address other pressing positions since they are not short of goals anyways. But when it's time to go for the big trophies, we would need a consistent and improved Martial or a new striker
With Ighalo Martial Greenwood Rashford and Bruno, we don't have a problem with goals. There's no point splashing money on a striker when there are other areas that need addressing
Although, i honestly don't see Martial as the no.9 in a team that's challenging for the big titles. But then again we're still a few seasons (2 maybe) from challenging for the biggest trophies so we can make do with the attackers we have now while we address other pressing positions since they are not short of goals anyways. But when it's time to go for the big trophies, we would need a consistent and improved Martial or a new striker
There's a borderline obsession with having a go at certain players no matter how they perform.
It's just lack of intelligence, same with the number of users that constantly had a go at Ole for playing Lingard and Pereira when we had no other alternatives due to injuries. Behold, as soon as we had alternatives Lingard and Pereira were out of the team.
Martial has had a fine season, it's hardly a surprise that it wasn't smooth sailing when Rashford was out injured and Lingard and Pereira was supposed to be the creative outlet in the squad. This forum was full of people calling out Rashford when Martial was out injured as well...
You missed out both are black as that also tends to be the lazy comparison aka Pogba is the new Viera/Yaya.I will tell you. Both can walk and both can run. Both can kick a football and both can head a football. Both are French. Both are male. Both played or plays professional football. Both are human beings and do similar things a human being does.
But as for their playing styles they are not similar at all but very different.
Totally agree with you mate, Martial May have talent but he is nothing like Anelka and he is a million miles from Henry or Benzema.
Hence I made the distinction of comparing Martial to Ronaldo post surgery. Obviously before the surgery he was out of this world. What people seem to forget is that he was an amazing player after the surgery.
His game however somewhat changed. He was still fast but wasn't unbelievably quick off the mark. Probably why he focused his game more on his positioning as opposed to running around the place being an all round menace. At that time(Madrid years) he was a true striker.
Martial seems to have the movement if the team is penetrating through the middle. That needs playmakers who can move central defenders out of position, before Bruno was here no one was capable of doing that.
However when were deep he also has to run the channels which he doesn't do. He also is confused as to where to be when we have the ball in wide areas. If he sorts that out he'd be much more effective.
True but players can still be pulled up on their individual game which is part and parcel of watching and analysing sport. Nout to do with intelligence. People regularly criticise Salah and he scores bucket loads!
Of course it's nice to see Martial improve his goal tallies, and I'm glad that he's moving towards the right direction.
However it's also undeniable that he's deficient in some areas, which are important in modern football. His (lack of) center forward play is one of the reasons why we struggle to break down smaller teams, and his consistency is still a debate. When other top strikers are in bad form, they can still create chances and spaces for their teammates; but when Martial is having a bad day, it's like we are playing with a man down.
Having said that, I don't think it's urgent for us to sign a striker, especially with Ighalo as a reliable backup. But if Martial can't improve on his off-the-ball play, we have to reconsider our choices. Chicharito was a potent goalscoring poacher but he was poor in other areas and failed, I'm reluctant to see Martial follow his path.
However it's also undeniable that he's deficient in some areas, which are important in modern football. His (lack of) center forward play is one of the reasons why we struggle to break down smaller teams, and his consistency is still a debate. When other top strikers are in bad form, they can still create chances and spaces for their teammates; but when Martial is having a bad day, it's like we are playing with a man down.
Having said that, I don't think it's urgent for us to sign a striker, especially with Ighalo as a reliable backup. But if Martial can't improve on his off-the-ball play, we have to reconsider our choices. Chicharito was a potent goalscoring poacher but he was poor in other areas and failed, I'm reluctant to see Martial follow his path.
This is what I disagree with.
I think Martial is diffecient myself to be the only striker to play as a sole striker in the team but asking him to create chances for players like James, Mata is different to asking him to create chances for Rashford and Greenwood because he is so clearly a system player.
I thought he was bloody fantastic when Rashford was in form and was playing an all round game that he isnt doing now even though now he is scoring more goals nearly every game.
The difference now is that the goal scoring ability of our forwards have reduced without Rashford and it's just Martial left and he has had to step up and he has stepped up to an 'okay' level whilst the rest of his game that requires a system and players like Rashford making runs off him is no longer there.
Greenwood is the only one who is of the same mould of Rashford & Martial but he's not ready to start every game in my opinion.
I think when Ole gets Rashford back he puts Rashford back on the left and makes Martial play the way he was playing during the period when Rashford was scoring goals non stop - back towards the goal, wonderful first touch, flicks behind bringing runs behind him and hopefully by then Greenwood will be ready do take over James on the right forward spot. Make Martial the False 9 we saw for only 2 months until Rashford got injured.
Rashford & Greenwood are our real forwards in that formation and martial is a glue that drops deeps and try to interlink and make passes inbetween them. I think it will even get the best out of Bruno Fernandes because Martial can hold on to the ball to lay off chances for Bruno Fernandes and Pogba rather than trying to be this 'Haaland type forward' he isnt whilst they also create chances from wider but centralised positions to players like Rashford and Greenwood to finish chances.
We do need a more traditional striker when the Martial false 9 tactic doesn't work - but people act like this sh*t has failed when we haven't even tried it out. Rashford got injured in to 2 months of trying it and Greenwood is still a young player and apparently according to the athletic we were outscoring Liverpool in that formation even with CAM's like Lingard and Pereira.
Why do u bother some people don't just like Martial
What exactly did @hmchan say that implies he doesn't like Martial? He offered praise and hope along with mild criticism and his view of what he feels must happen in the future. Yet you feel it doesn't deserve a response and should be dismissed as someone that just doesn't like Martial because it wasn't glowing praise?
M
If people give up the ghost of wanting Martial as a box player then we can really start to appreciate him.
Martial is scoring damn sight better than at an ok level.
If people give up the ghost of wanting Martial as a box player then we can really start to appreciate him.
He gave a clear analysis of the job Martial does in our team,i meant why did he bother writing all that when most anti martial fans would simply raise their nose up at it
Martial needs to have the stamina and running of Fred, the tackling of AWB, the heading of Maguire, the passing of Bruno, the ball control of Pogba, the pace of James and the shooting of Greenwood and yet people will have something to moan about Martial.
I'd rather watch them play football together.
I wouldn't classify that as an analysis of anything, parts of it were crossing over into fan fiction territory.
I don't mean to have a go at you or anything. I'm genuinely baffled by some of the weirdness that goes on in this thread(and went on in the Haaland thread). I just found your seeming willingness to dismiss a fairly mild critique as "someone who doesn't like Martial" or "an anti Martial fan" interesting. I find the fact that you would use those terms interesting.
I mean I think Dan James might eventually be a good player for us, but I feel no real need to dismiss the opinions of anyone that thinks otherwise. I like Rashford as a player(as long as he stays the feck away from freekicks), but I don't need to find a way to explain away people that don't rate him now or didn't rate him when he was off form. It's just a mindset I don't understand.
I really don't understand what's happening here. Is this a place where we can only priase and flatter players? I have a printed Martial shirt on my own and I want him to be success, suddenly I become an anti-Martial fan? Every player has some flaws and weaknesses, even our arguably best player Pogba receives plenty of criticisms every day, why we can't comment negatively on Martial? Is he really so perfect that he has nothing to improve on? I've read multiple player performance threads but I've never seen something like this.
I don't know, mate. It's been going on for ages. It comes across as a subset of people caring more about Martial than the club then acting like teenage girls that have had their favourite boyband disrespected when they see anything that's not praise or is outside of their narrow definition of what kind of player they think he is. It's bizarre in here and has made the thread a bit of a farce.
He did what a lot of people do in this thread, parroted the sentiments they hear on Sky Sports, I'm sure they don't even realise they're doing it. Unfortunately critical analysis is dying in modern society and people are more and more frequently just repeating the tired old cliches that the people on tv tell them. It's only this easily noticeable because we all watch the same thing.
We talk about the low level of punditry and media in Britain yet continue to spew the same propaganda they want us to. This has become an issue of huge annoyance to me over the last 5 or so years, not just I football, but politics and current affairs as well.
When people start banging on about Martial's lack of work rate, desire and mentality it's almost as annoying for me as people parroting Boris or Trump.
So he said something that doesn't fall within your opinion of the player essentially? You know why a lot of people say those things about Martial? Because that's what they see. He's a divisive player. People are going to have different opinions on him. You're seeing what you see, they are seeing what they see. Football is about opinions. Someone's hard working midfielder, is someone else's clogger with no skill. You lot are acting like anything outside of your field of view is wrong and needs to be dismissed immediately as only praise can be tolerated. Then it gets bitchy. You don't even know if he's from the UK to be listening to Sky Sports.
He wasn't even dismissed as someone repeating what they heard on Sky Sports. He was dismissed as someone that "doesn't like Martial" based on nothing. It's a with us or against us, we are Martial FC thing in here.
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