It's a bit strange how it's come to these sort of discussions with Martial, really. We're talking as though he's a kid that is just finding his feet, but he's already performed brilliantly under Van Gaal, starting games every week. It's almost as though he's somehow moved back in his development and I don't think this is entirely down to the player.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
It's down to the system aswell. Mourinho is renowned for demanding more defensive work from his attacking players than almost all other coaches, barring maybe Simeone.
This means that Martials starting position has been deeper than under LVG and last season he struggled to figure out how to play it.
He seems to be grasping it this season, (and I include the Leicester game in that) as he was being more careful in possession and tracking full backs more often. The key now is getting those goals he's grabbing off the bench when he starts and then I think we'll see Mourinhos full trust in him.
I agree a bit. All this talk about he shouldn't be starting games, he needs space is nonsense imo.
Imo, this is one of our best players we're talking about.
That's not the problem really. The problem is under LVG the team strategy was built completely on Martial. LVG was doing with him as he did with Robben in Netherlands national team : strict all the team with keeping possession while giving full freedom to a wide forward to unlock defenses. Martial always has the ball in his feet and always isolated with his keeper. LVG built the team system around Martial strength points.
Under Mourinho, Martial is no more the focal point of our attack as he was under LVG. He's not always getting the ball under his feet and not always isolated with the full back. The focal point in Mourinho's team has been the striker ( Zlatan/Lukaku ) and Pogba, while Martial as the rest of the players is a part of the team, so it's normal he'll struggle a bit in the start imo, especially to improve his movement and asking the ball to do his tricks.
He's getting there now and starting to adjust to his roles in Mourinho's system. The defensive roles are here for sure but it's not a problem really considering the rest of the team isn't struggling with it. It's just Martial moving from a role to another under a different manager, from the focal point of the team to part of a successful system imo.
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I've been so impressed with Martial this season. He had the opportunity to flirt with leaving but instead ended the rumours with a few words. He wants to be here, and it's showing on the pitch. He has had an impact in most games he's played, and his goals to minutes ratio is great. He has shown a growing maturity in his handling of being benched, and is taking his opportunities to impress. I'm sure he won't be happy with being on the bench, but he is a substitute that is capable of regularly opening up defences all on his own, which to my mind is quite unique in the Premier League. If he keeps developing the way he has done this season, he is going to be an absolute star.
Shame that he and rashford are fighting for same position. I still think that rashford can be excellent right winger so they both would be in squad at the same time
I think Lukaku will always play centrally as he opens space. He has more pace and power, and given size, he is intimidating to defend against. Martial is more technically gifted than Rashford, but Rashford has pace/fitness/workrate. Given that Jose favors a more dynamic style, Rashford can play under demands of Jose's style. Martial hover is being utilized in the most effective manner. At the Apex of game where opposing team has tired Jose subs Martial in. That last 20 to 10 minutes is where Martial can shine given Jose's style.
Yeah so they don't all feature in one 11. Eventually if they all develop as they should that will become a problem.
Rashford is perfectly capable of playing on the right, and has a surprisingly mean cross. Also spent most of his time in the youths playing as a no. 10. Probably not far off how versatile Lingard is.
It's definitely possible, if risky maybe?
Lukaku up top and Martial/Mkhi/Rashford behind, that's some frightening pace bombing on looking for overlaps.
I don't think Jose rates him that side at all though. Sure he rates him there more than Martial, but he hardly ever plays either of them there. It's unbalanced in that it requires an ultra creative AM which we don't have
You think before a ball was kicked LvG intentionally built the team around a last minute signing, a teenager who hadn't completed 90mins for his previous club?
I'm struggling to find the logic behind your question tbh. Him planning it during the preseason or not doesn't negate what actually happened during the season. Anyway, l'll answer and say : nope he didn't plan it but did it later during the season when he found the opportunity.
LVG planned many things during his both 2 pre seasons and changed them later. He planned to play 3-5-2 during his full first pre season and threw it later on. He planned to depend on Depay and Rooney as an attacking pair during the second preseason and threw it once the season starts so your questions doesn't make a valid argument. I only judge by what I had seen on the pitch and what I saw was our style of play was making Martial our focal point and we were planning to always isolate him with his man to take on and score or create chances. LVG found Martial to be his new Robben.
Is LVG making Martial a focal point of his team is a bad thing to argue otherwise ?
Just an observation but I think were it the other way around and an English player with Martial's talent where being kept out of the side by a French player with Rashford's comparative ability, there would be uproar
I think it's obvious to everyone that Martial has far more talent than Rashford. Rashford might be a good player, Martial could be a great one. It's time to find a place for him in the XI again imo
I think it's obvious to everyone that Martial has far more talent than Rashford. Rashford might be a good player, Martial could be a great one. It's time to find a place for him in the XI again imo
Mou watches them both in training as well guys, if the difference was as huge as some here suggest, Martial would be the undoubted #1 and Rashford a squad player most likely. They are very close to eachother, but have very different qualities. You are taking the piss if you think Martial has Ballon d'Or potential and Rashford is championship quality (the most extreme case).
I ask because Martial hit the ground running didn't he? He was maybe our best player right from his first game. That was before, as you agree, there was any gameplan to structure the team around him.
So putting his great first season down to team tactics doesn't really explain why he was so immediately good.
I think the biggest problem for some players is they don't play consistently. They seem to have to play well all the time to get a start where others play irrespective of their form. Martial needs a run of 15+ and I think we would see a very different player from that consistency.
It does annoy me that Martial seems to be always given less chances than Rashford.
I mean Rashford had an absolute stinker against Everton, if that was Martial we wouldn't see him for a month. So when he's playing poorly and he gets subbed he chooses Lingard instead? I just didn't understand that.
He could have done with those 30 mins, instead within 5 minutes he creates a chance and scores a pen. I have no problems with Lingard coming on but it should have been the other way around.
I hope Martial get's a run of games now, if we can just get regular top form out of him he will be our most dangerous attacker IMO.
I mean Rashford had an absolute stinker against Everton, if that was Martial we wouldn't see him for a month. So when he's playing poorly and he gets subbed he chooses Lingard instead? I just didn't understand that.
He could have done with those 30 mins, instead within 5 minutes he creates a chance and scores a pen. I have no problems with Lingard coming on but it should have been the other way around.
I hope Martial get's a run of games now, if we can just get regular top form out of him he will be our most dangerous attacker IMO.
Lingard's movement and energy changed the game for us.
Don't think he made much difference TBH, Herrera was the momentum swinger. Everton seemed to run out of gas also which helped.
I'm not saying oh Lingard is rubbish bla bla, but when Martial's been in the best form since he first joined why not continue that? He's doing something positive every game so far.
Because the manager doesn't see it that way. Rashford, Lingard etc. offer things that Martial doesn't, the same way Martial offers things they can't. Whoever the manager sees fit will play. It's not the first or last time a manager will prefer certain players. Cast your mind back to the battle between the hardworking Valencia and the inconsistently brilliant Nani under SAF.
Martial will get game time, for now he's doing very well for us when called upon. He was gifted a start against Leicester and apart from a few dribbles didn't look nearly as good as he has been coming off the bench. Movement is a very important attribute for a Mourinho side, something both Rashford and Lingard are streets ahead of Martial in.
We are winning games and thumping opponents, if Jose wins the title preferring Rashford, his decision has ultimately been vindicated. If not, then his decision will be rightly questioned. That being said, I don't think he has a preference for either, he seems very happy to have both options and both have already played a lot of football this season and will continue to do so.
Both Rashford and Martial are top, top talents who offer us very different things. Both will be very important to our hunt for trophies this season, people need to relax. You'd think Martial was demoted to the reserves and hasn't had a sniff of football. He's a young player who's playing very well and is an important part of our squad. As Jose said, he has spoken with Martial on his role this season and Martial obviously is content with it. He will play from the start and sometimes he will start from the bench, that's the benefits of having a very talented squad with depth.
That doesn't contradict the point. Martial was great from the start, and the team system helped him even more during the season.
I'm always sceptical when posters think they can detect these very subtle differences. So Martial was great right from the off but you're sure LVG's system made him even better. You detected that difference. Then Mourinho's didn't work for him but now it does. All this deduction about a player nobody knew much of a couple of years ago.
I think it's much simpler. Nothing to do with systems or having a team built round him. He's just a very talented player going through the ups and downs most young players experience whilst they explore and tweek their game.
Martial started the season as a striker, and over the course of it he has been switched to the left forward position and that's when our system was starting to shape quickly to making him the focal point like Robben in Netherlands. I don't think that's a " very subtle difference " imo. It was clear that the ball is always reaching him on the left flank and he's always the one who creates the chances and you can't watch a game and think he's invisible. That's not like the last season when the ball was always built for Zlatan or down to the right flank for Valencia. The pattern we were attacking with is different and choosing other targets and that made him appears invisible in some portions of our games. Martial needed to cope with him not having the ball all the time but rather asking for it and I think he's doing pretty fine this season,
I don't think him having ups and downs also contradict my point. Martial's off ball movement has been a problem, but if you're focusing the play on him and supplying him with the ball every attack you'll never notice it, but when you switch the attack to other targets and make Martial a part of the system rather than being the focal point of it, he doesn't have the ball all the time and hence his off ball movements problem becomes clearer to be noticed. That's also the part he's improving a bit this season.
I think Martial has stamina issues when being told to play on the left wing and perform defensive duties at the same time. In LvGs first season, he played very high up the field and had little/no defensive responsibilities. His turn of pace and dribbling abilities were at an impressively high level throughout the 90 mins in matches that season.
Now, he seems faded after 30-40 minutes on the pitch, and his burst of pace + tight control seem to be hampered because he lacks the energy and focus to do so. Once he starts picking his moments by conserving energy and Jose makes his role more attacking, I think we'll see the best of Martial when starting games.
Now, he seems faded after 30-40 minutes on the pitch, and his burst of pace + tight control seem to be hampered because he lacks the energy and focus to do so. Once he starts picking his moments by conserving energy and Jose makes his role more attacking, I think we'll see the best of Martial when starting games.
But as already agreed he was doing the business upfront, left wing, right at the start of his Unitedcareer, six months into the seaaon. He was playing well wherever and whenever.
I think he'll flourish whatever the system. He just needs time, a manager who is confident in him and regular football.
Man Utd 4:1 Burton
He's taking the piss out of their defenders which you can tell is pissing them off and they're trying to rough him up off the ball.
He's only in 2nd gear, expect him to do more damage next half.
He looks really confident right now which is good to see. He is bossing them and have had a good half.
His close control dribbling is sensational.
Upon occasion Martial just does things that are incredible and makes it look easy. If he could put all of his game together he'd be phenomenal. Still has plenty of time just wish he'd be more forceful in his runs and stuff.
Had a feeling that the last 15 minutes of that first half was him trying to get level with Rashford and his 2 goals. Looked on a mission and at times maybe trying too hard to score.
Had a feeling that the last 15 minutes of that first half was him trying to get level with Rashford and his 2 goals. Looked on a mission and at times maybe trying too hard to score.
Only goal is missing in this performance, I hope he will get one in the second half, just to continue with scoring.
Wow I can only say thank God we didn't buy Perisic or Inter didn't want to sell him to us 
I feel like good things will come from Martial this season.
I feel like good things will come from Martial this season.He's taking the piss out of them now
I hope Jose doesn't complain about Playstation football as Martial is in pure FIFA mode
I hope Jose doesn't complain about Playstation football as Martial is in pure FIFA mode
That ball roll
Gif me
Finally. What a player.
Thoroughly deserved goal for Martial.
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