That may well be the case, but he played for France pretty recently (up top with Mbappe & Dembele) and didn't grab his chance. Had he done something in that game he'd be in the squad. Martial's got massive talent, but Deschamps isn't really a fan, and Mourinho clearly feels he needs to do more. People seem to assume that Poch, Pep, or Klopp, would see the qualities we see, and magically tell him what it is he needs to improve to reach that next level... as though Mourinho and Deschamps wouldn't know how a player could improve, or wouldn't want a better player. I hope he stays and reaches his potential here. He's going to get better over the next couple of years regardless of who his manager is... if both he and Mourinho stay, then I imagine Martial (or whoever the next French coach is) will get the credit, if he goes, it'll be his next manager.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
That may well be the case, but he played for France pretty recently (up top with Mbappe & Dembele) and didn't grab his chance. Had he done something in that game he'd be in the squad. Martial's got massive talent, but Deschamps isn't really a fan, and Mourinho clearly feels he needs to do more. People seem to assume that Poch, Pep, or Klopp, would see the qualities we see, and magically tell him what it is he needs to improve to reach that next level... as though Mourinho and Deschamps wouldn't know how a player could improve, or wouldn't want a better player. I hope he stays and reaches his potential here. He's going to get better over the next couple of years regardless of who his manager is... if both he and Mourinho stay, then I imagine Martial (or whoever the next French coach is) will get the credit, if he goes, it'll be his next manager.
Yeah I agree with you, the Sanchez purchase seemed more of a "don't want City to get their way, I want that toy" kinda purchase. United seemed to stack a lot of similar players, first nr 10's (Even Fellaini is a 10 imo), Mata Mhki, Rooney, Lindgaard etc., and then moved to stack on the left forward role. One thing has to give, and since Rashford is from the academy and Sanchez won't be going anywhere with his wage it seem to be Martial.
How much money is he on btw?
Not relevant at all.
I know as much as you about our manager and the club but I do know a few things about management.
If you ask any successful C-level manager with experience in M2M management about how to handle problems the majority will give you similar answers.
- separate your personal feelings from your challange (making a difficult decision)
- value trust
- nothing is set in stone
Sir Alex made his success by using these rules. Mourinho has a similar approach.
Don’t for a second think that they don’t want their players to succeed. Martial is a huge talent but there's question marks regarding his mentality. If you don’t see this then future argumentation is pointless.
I trust our manager 100% regarding making the right evaluation, Martial including. If he is willing to adapt and learn he has a future with this club. If not his days are numbered. It’s not personal, it about what’s best for the club short and long term. You maybe think different but Josè Mourinho doesn’t have the luxury you have. He’s accountable for every result and decision so his perspective isn’t about making a minority of our supporters happy by keeping favorites. Maybe he has other plans we don’t know about.
Trying to put blame is short sighted. Probably agenda driven.
Now I wait for the KdB and Salah arguments even if those decisions was correct at the time they where made.
Bayern have Ribery and Robben for another year along with Gnabry and Coman as their future wingers (and James can play there too). I doubt they'll be in for Martial anymore.
Lol, he has a better mentality than Rashford.
One lost his place and fought by playing well every time he came on to get it back.
The other lost his place and started playing shit by overrunning the ball and not passing to teammates in better positions. Never came close winning it back.
People have resorted to saying bad and untruthful things about Martial to console themselves because he’s leaving. Poor cafe members.
One lost his place and fought by playing well every time he came on to get it back.
The other lost his place and started playing shit by overrunning the ball and not passing to teammates in better positions. Never came close winning it back.
People have resorted to saying bad and untruthful things about Martial to console themselves because he’s leaving. Poor cafe members.
Can’t believe people have managed to convince themselves Jose has handled Martial well
Perhaps those people deserve it when he leaves and becomes the next KDB/Salah. I for one am looking forward to what they have to say when that happens.Lol, he has a better mentality than Rashford.
One lost his place and fought by playing well every time he came on to get it back.
The other lost his place and started playing shit by overrunning the ball and not passing to teammates in better positions. Never came close winning it back.
People have resorted to saying bad and untruthful things about Martial to console themselves because he’s leaving. Poor cafe members.
So the pro-Martial side has actual facts to present while the anti-Martial side keeps harping on his allegedly poor mentality without having sufficient evidence for it. That shows you everything you need to know.
People have resorted to saying bad and untruthful things about Martial to console themselves because he’s leaving. Poor cafe members.
I agree, it has become the new Super Red stance to downplay Martials abilities, bring out the "no one is bigger than the club" cliché, question his attitude and side with the manager when all evidence shows he has treated him poorly at best during his time here.
We have/had a potentially World Class player on our hands, one of the most exciting young talents who we got for a relative bargain and who has already proved himself minus the consistency that he has shown when given an extended run.
I know it doesn't necessarily mean everything but Thierry Henry by comparison had scored 31 goals to Martials 51 at the same age, playing in a similar position, but with Martial playing at a higher level. I still think he can go on to be a similar standard of player to Henry, and that we will have egg on our faces for the next 10 years.
Don't kid yourselves people, fact is we are losing our best outfield talent since Ronaldo and have handled this situation terribly.
I remember him showing up and scoring goals away at west ham as a teenager in a crucial league game to qualify for champions league when half our squad pissed themselves after the team bus was attacked on way to the ground.
He has plenty of mental strength and then some. This arm chair psychology by people who are unaware of day to day business is getting a bit tiring.
Watch out, you'll be told to feck off along with him soon.People have resorted to saying bad and untruthful things about Martial to console themselves because he’s leaving. Poor cafe members.
It truly is incredible how people seem to be able to deny or wilfully turn a blind eye to the talent Martial has. I sometimes wonder if they are watching the same player as me. Does he need to improve? Sure - but the raw materials are very much there. Really hope it works out here and he stays, megastar in the making.
I agree 100% it is in my opinion deluded to suggest that allowing him to leave isn't a terrible decision for the club in both the present and future. in this 'average, inconsistent season' he has been our second most productive player with limited opportunities at times.
This exactly. We lost top 4 under Van Gaal that season because our defenders shit themselves under pressure. Martial knew what he had to do and he did his job perfectly by scoring 2 goals that should have won us the game.
I can give at least 3 other instances where Martial has done things that only players with excellent mentalities are capable of.
But folks here would say he has a shit mentality because he does not run a lot or he's weak emotionally because he does not smile. I hope they bringing up their weak arguments.
When you put the timeline of events involving Martial on paper though it's almost impossible to say it's fair and just treatment. Martial's mentality can be questionable at times which is probably why Mourinho for the majority hasn't favoured him, but his ability on the pitch and his potential future importance and value to our team and club completely outweighs all of that. If he's told Mourinho to feck off to his face then fair enough but I highly doubt anything like that has happened.
Mourinho's stubbornness has cost him dearly in the past and it looks like things haven't changed. I'm starting to feel like he's going to fade away like Wenger rather than burn out like Ferguson, and it'll be down to his unwillingness to adapt and adjust his tactics and what qualities he prioritizes in a player, especially his wingers.
Pretty much
So many players that deserve to be shipped out ahead of Martial:
Felliani, Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Blind, Rojo & Juan Mata.
We'll regret selling Martial if it happens. Mourinho has a history of being unable to develop young players.
Felliani, Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Blind, Rojo & Juan Mata.
We'll regret selling Martial if it happens. Mourinho has a history of being unable to develop young players.
Lots of emotions and rightly so. We talk about a extraordinary talent.
Like I said none of us supporters has the overall picture and inside knowledge about the Martial situation. We all see what we see. I perfectly understand supporters who’s frustrated and think he’s mismanaged. That’s one way to look at it. Some of us see attitude problems, others see a shy guy who doesn’t express his emotions so often. We see what we want to see.
But for me this isn’t a question about his talent. I was surprised that Mourinho didn’t put Sanchez on the right side and kept Martial at the left. I’m also disappointed that we haven’t played a 352 formation more often with Lukaku and Martial/Rash upfront. My other concern is that for me Martial isn’t a left sided winger, maybe a left side forward, but I think his best position is as a second striker coming from behind.
I’m also perplexed that Rash is chosen above Martial after Christmas. Strange to say at least. But for me to have strong opinions about things I don’t have full knowledge about is a little bit rich.
But taking all into concideration I continue to trust our manager.. If he decideds to sell Martial it must be for a good reason. He has the power and if we reinvest the money and buy, let’s say, another top talented player, then I’m all for it.
Deep deep inside of me I have questions about Martial’s mentality, just judging from what see on television. Thats why I will support whatever our manager decides to do.
Important pre-season ahead for him and Sanchez. Both not going to the World Cup, which hopefully means they start early and will be raring to go. Is there a way both of them can play together? Would probably mean Sanchez on the right but I don't see that happening on a regular basis.
I will not have any trust in Jose if he wants to sell Martial just because he is not Jose's type of player. Jose has to improve him instead he seems to be taking the easy way out.
Mental attitude and stuff is all bullshit, Martial has shown what he is capable of. Jose has side lined him and then fed him scraps and expected him to win matches.
Mental attitude and stuff is all bullshit, Martial has shown what he is capable of. Jose has side lined him and then fed him scraps and expected him to win matches.
It's pointless to speculate and take sides when we don't know anything for sure. Martial might start next season with a bang and then all this Jose vs Martial debate will have been for nothing.
Let's wait for concrete developments and use the World Cup to distract us. Till then, no news is good news.
It's a shame, but as Martial looks lazy on pitch, Jose is in having any patience with players like this, with the right manager and bit more motivation Martial could really be the real deal, but this will never happen under Jose, he just won't give him the time, or patience to have any chance at succeeding, so for Martial's sake I won't begrudge him a move, and assuming he goes abroad I hope he does well.
Jose is lazy with players, and the players we are been linked with this summer only shows this up even more.
To sum it up, people calling out others as arm chair psychologists then do the same analysis in other opposition. We don't know the whole depth of thing that's for sure, however from the ITK: Jardim, some random scout reports during his Monaco days (http://outsideoftheboot.com/2015/07/30/scout-report-anthony-martial-monaco/), before we arrive at today discussion.
One statement stands out:
"Certainly a confidence player, Martial blossomed once he was given a consistent run in the side and was able to better establish a rapport with his teammates."
Armchair psychology aside, this is what I didn't like last season. Even when Martial and Rashford were playing, it was very stop-start. They weren't getting more than two starts in a row (I may be wrong about this but certainly felt like it) and never settled in their role. Next season, I would like them to get an extended run whenever they break into the starting eleven.
Thanks for that link. The writer seemed pretty convinced that he should be developed as a striker. Interesting to know that his first touch used to be pretty poor. He must have improved in that regard as I don't think it's been an issue here.
We saw this at United too for a brief period:
@SirMattBugsby @SS
While there are points that's obvious and people can agree (like I think Martial is best partner with Lukaku in a striker duo), there are other points that shouldn't be ignored as it explored other aspects of the same picture:
" ...
there are aspects to Martial’s mental game that could be improved. Too, as regards his passing, although a lack of selfishness is to be praised, it is too often overly ambitious or shows a lack of cohesion with teammates.
Because of these issues, and a seeming lack of desire to do much in the way of defensive work, Martial almost has to be used as a center forward with regard to his career trajectory. Not currently a negative, I mention this only as regards how it could affect a potential move, as these kinds of weaknesses could make some managers think twice, especially as Monaco’s system is more forgiving in this regard..."
Here and there you can see info touched on how Ranieri, Jardim had to look at Martial's mentality part. It's not the case, Martial naturally has the right mentality. What I meant we can say Mourinho can be wrong in managing Martial, but it's not like we can draw conclusion it's the reason and not involved Martial's part.
While there are points that's obvious and people can agree (like I think Martial is best partner with Lukaku in a striker duo), there are other points that shouldn't be ignored as it explored other aspects of the same picture:
" ...
there are aspects to Martial’s mental game that could be improved. Too, as regards his passing, although a lack of selfishness is to be praised, it is too often overly ambitious or shows a lack of cohesion with teammates.
Because of these issues, and a seeming lack of desire to do much in the way of defensive work, Martial almost has to be used as a center forward with regard to his career trajectory. Not currently a negative, I mention this only as regards how it could affect a potential move, as these kinds of weaknesses could make some managers think twice, especially as Monaco’s system is more forgiving in this regard..."
Here and there you can see info touched on how Ranieri, Jardim had to look at Martial's mentality part. It's not the case, Martial naturally has the right mentality. What I meant we can say Mourinho can be wrong in managing Martial, but it's not like we can draw conclusion it's the reason and not involved Martial's part.
Never ever thought this to be true. He’s actually pretty good at getting back and covering even sometimes doing the jobb of the fullback. There have been recent games and many before where he has been the man getting the tackle or block in in our box. I was looking at him compared to William recently and I’m sure martial had more tackles and block than the perceived workhorse.
When people refer to him as lazy I think it’s more offensively because he doesn’t tend to make the option in behind as much as he should do. He always wants it to feet.
However there was a performance with Lukaku where they played as a two and the movement from both was fantastic, they worked for each other and I think it’s evident when they play they look for each other and compliment each other’s game.
He has improved since in this aspect, but it did span into his defensive workrate as I personally remembered him in his early Monaco days.
Agree. Lukaku and Martial has a natural understanding. The problem is still the same that we lack any kind of creativity to support them and with Martial not up his workrate (attacking sense here) to help stretching the play, constantly threatening, it doesn't help.
Wasn’t he mostly a striker at Monaco, mostly deployed with Berbatov. Also kinda weird that probably two of the biggest striking characters he has probably learned off of happen to be Berbatov and Zlatan, both not really known for workrate on the pitch, and here we are discussing Martials poor attacking or languid attacking workrate.
He was used wide left. He's only deployed as central forward toward the end of his time there.
No, he was deployed narrowly on the left as an inside forward, he was also used mainly upfront as a substitute. When Monaco wanted width on the left it was Carrasco that would start. Martial wasn't expected to defend much or create width that was Kurzawa or Carrasco job.
From what I can see on Transfer Mrkt which lists every position for all his games he has mostly played as a CF with 2 games at LW and more at RW. He does sort of drift out wide when he starts centrally and on one of the few occasions I saw him play for Monaco he was out on the right.
Here’s the data
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/anthony-martial/leistungsdaten/spieler/182877/plus/0?saison=2014
If we take it back to when he joined us we sort of deployed him as a LW out of necessity as Depay just wasn’t cutting it. He has the ability to play out wide but i’m Sure I read he would prefer CF. He was bought as a future project and most likely the back up to Rooney.
I’d be more willing to blame Martial and dismiss his abilities if it wasn’t for the indisputable fact that every attacker we have has been a shadow of themselves under Mourinho. You can say Martial has a bad attitude or whatever you chose to believe from the next “inside info” tweet, but how do you explain Sanchez playing like Park at QPR when just a few months before joining us he was considered world class. Or why Rashford went from a future star to Welbeck MKII. Lukaku been our most consistent attacker, but I thought his all around game was better at Everton.
Personally I never use those examples as I felt Jose was spot on at the time.
I am not saying Martial is blameless but Jose has ruined the good form he was displaying in the season.
We will never for sure if this is the case here but I don't believe that personnal decisions aren't taken into account when using or axing certain players. Managers are human after all and there is no such as a robotic type manager who doesn't make things personnal at some point. Even the greatesr of all time, SAF, did it.
All Martial needs is a consistent run of games in an attacking set up with a manager who believes in him. I don't believe he's played more than 3 games in a row in these last two years. How can the player build momentum like this? Give him to a attacking manager who'll do that and then we'll be able to see what he can do.
The treatment stinks of Mourinho all over as well. He's done it times before with young talent, it's so blatantly obvious he's doing it all wrong.
Even last season Rashford went on a run of 20 something games without scoring but was never dropped. Martial many times has forced his way into the team by coming off the bench and making a difference the latest being the recent Arsenal game at OT but if he doesn't score or assist the next game he gets dropped back to the bench and then is reduced to short cameos in which he has to do well in to be in contention for the next game. I've always felt that he is judged in a different way to all our attacking players and isn't given the same leeway as others have had. I can't even remember any bad games from Martial this season. Whenever he's played he's done well. Sanchez has had plenty of appalling games. Rashford at times has been diabolical with decision making but they don't get the same treatment.
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