9
That was about a number 9.
Does he have the right application and mentality though? His off the ball movement and work rate still isn't good enough. He may become world class because he has the talent. He wont become world class if he doesn't have the correct mentality. That's the problem with Martial.
If he had the movement and work rate of Lingard he is the first name on the team sheet because he would be world class.
I agree with that, but does Jose. One of the main struggles for me in being consistent at LW is that he is not a natural wide player, what I mean by that is every-time I see him play LW he doesn't look natural. He looks like a natural CF though, his movement is good there and he is a cold finisher.
Saying that though Rashford is no wide player either.
Obviously he would as he is at the club right now and has mentioned Martial as a striker option before.Mentioned Martial as someone who can play the number 9 position. Pretty clear that he had him in his plans.
Remember the period in which Rashford was reduced to bench playerand Martial was starting every game, which was opposite to what happened at the beginning of season. They were both getting similar treatments of being a regular for times and bench warmers for times.
Obviously he would as he is at the club right now and has mentioned Martial as a striker option before.
Lukaku is 24 and is improving rapidly. Why not give Martial a couple more years and see if he is mentally strong? Martial has talent and age on his side.
Martial is not 29 like Mkhi that we can sell him because he is mentally weak. He is also not limited like Depay despite the latter's youthful age. He requires guidance for the next 2-3 years and that is Mourinho's job. Not doing that is failure in my eyes, and winning the EL, LC and possibly the FA Cup is not enough to gloss over the sale of a potentially WC player.
I think Jose just likes the option of a big man up top incase something happens. It’s also a defensive weapon. If we go under pressure out of the 3 choices we have I don’t think Martial or Rashford would give that post man performance Jose seems to like.I was surprised in the post game he mentioned the intensity dropped off because players were coming off the international break. Lukaku obviously played two games for Belgium so I don't understand why he won't substitute him even at 2-0 and the game in the pocket. 30 mins for Rashford and Martial against a tiring Swansea defense would have been great.
You have Sanchez as the better player and a very talented younger player in Rashford as well though. Right there you are looking at the present and future of Manchester United.
Just because we have one talented player, we can let the other go? So hypothetically one only needs either Salah or KDB and if both played for the same team we would be happy to let one go?
Sorry, that isn't sound logic.
Salah and KDB dont even play in the same position. If Martial was a RF it's a different situation.
It was an example. And Sanchez can be accommodated on the right.
If Martial worked like Sanchez did yesterday every time he lost the ball to win it back, we probably would've have even signed Sanchez.
I'm willing to bet views have changed after Sevilla, TBH though Mata should be the one exiting, if we're bringing in someone more experienced.
It's not a good example. If Rashford was LF and Martial was a RF then there is no reason to think about selling either. Salah and de Bruyne play in different positions so you can keep both.
It's clear Sanchez is going to play on the left.
Only cited two players of WC potential to highlight my point but you are stretching it to defend Jose. Point is simple, you don't just accept the sale of one talented player just because there is another at the club.
Yes, clearly Jose wants Sanchez on the left but he should play on the RW as he is good there as well. Martial should be on the left.
The only attacking player that has delivered in virtually every game this season is Lukaku and even he had been criticised by the fans for a barren spell. We brought in Sanchez and he's been the same as Lingard, Rashford, Martial... probably even worse form wise until he produced yesterday.He’s a good player, but not top tier. Yet. And that’s the problem, for Jose’s ambition and the ambitions of the club, we need top class players that will deliver in virtually every game.
It's not just one talented player though is it... Sanchez is here as well, that's my point. Your example is poor because if Martial was not a LF we don't even think about selling him. You are removing context from the situation...
Yeah I agree, he'll probably just do it anyway. Juve think he'll alienate a huge number of fans who are currently undecided and the atmosphere could turn toxic if results start to drop off next year.Dont think he would give a feck, he is thick skinned enough to sell anyone if he thinks its for the best. problem is what he thinks is best will be best for him and the short term rather than the clubs long term.
Sanchez is 29 and more flexible than Martial who is the future. Sanchez can play atleast 70% as well on the RW which is enough if Martial is given chances.
Also, Sanchez has literally had his first decent game for United, while Martial was scoring before being unfairly shunted to the right and then dropped for Sanchez.
Face it, Jose is too lazy to manage Martial and help him overcome his weaknesses. I like Jose but this is a glaring weakness of his which is costing the club.
Yeah Jose is too lazy to push Sanchez to the right so Martial can play on the left. Just like he was too lazy to push Rashford to the right so Martial could play on the left. In reality, pushing Rashford to the right just unbalances the team, and the same might happen with Sanchez.
Martial is not nearly as good as some people think.
Nobody denies that, but he is also not dispensible as you seem to think.
I said Jose is too lazy to develop Martial, not that he is lazy to shunt Sanchez to the right. A simple point, Martial is a complicated personality and Jose doesn't have it in him to properly manage him. I hope that changes of course.
I get you idolize Jose. I love him to bits as well, but he's not a mangerial god that he has zero flaws. No manager is perfect.
Those comments were two months ago. Since then Martial has gone from being a starter to not even being a sub. In our biggest game of the season against Sevilla he was only put on after we were losing, he was seemingly one of the ones criticised against Brighton, didn't come off the bench against Swansea and unlikely to play against City.
There doesn't seem to be a huge deal of trust in anyone on the right so his views may have changed since then.
The only attacking player that has delivered in virtually every game this season is Lukaku and even he had been criticised by the fans for a barren spell. We brought in Sanchez and he's been the same as Lingard, Rashford, Martial... probably even worse form wise until he produced yesterday.
There comes a point where the players need to stop being blamed and the attention be on the coaching and attacking tactics. Will it come after we spend £100M, £200M or £300M more?
I don't idolise Mourinho.
Is Mourinho too lazy to develop Rashford and McTominay? There are so many excuses for Martial it is getting ridiculous. I never said he didn't have flaws, I have acknowledged he has made mistakes. So does every manager. This is my opinion, just like you have yours. Just because you dont agree with it doesn't mean you can just throw accusations.
I don't idolise Mourinho.
Is Mourinho too lazy to develop Rashford and McTominay? There are so many excuses for Martial it is getting ridiculous. I never said he didn't have flaws, I have acknowledged he has made mistakes. So does every manager. This is my opinion, just like you have yours. Just because you dont agree with it doesn't mean you can just throw accusations.
Martial IMO has shown alot of improvement this season from last season. Saying that though he isnt a wide player. Id really like us to sign a true wide player and move to playing one of Rashford/Martial off Lukaku.
Also you mention Rashford but he is also stalling under Jose
Precisely my point. Why do you assume I think Jose can't develop anyone? This has nothing to do with the "he can't develop youth" cliche. This has everything to do with the fact that he can't seem to manage Martial and only Martial properly. Unfortunate, as Martial has the highest ceiling of all our young players.
So who is the anomaly here then? Martial or Mourinho?
Lukaku gets played every minute through his barren spell until he finally hits form. Rashford last season played virtually every minute through his barren period until he hit some form later in the season. Martial becomes player of the month and gets binned for a January buy(who incidentally has been utter crap) and make no mistake Sanchez will be played through his bad form until he hits some form.
Seems unfair to me. Martial should leave IMO, we might as well sell him off and get back most of the money we spent instead of letting him waste another year of his contract and let him leave for cheap. Or better yet we should try to exchange him for Alex Sandro.
LOL Sane under Mourinho will be utter crap than Martial has been.Martial is talented but if someone comes with a good cheque club should cash in because he has made 0 improvement as far as movement and we need a pure winger as an attacking option. Look at Sane at City. We should buy Mohammed Elyannosu from Basel as he had the beating of City defenders time after time in their recent win so much that even Guardiola congratulated him.
In all cases the players went through periods of poor form (worse than any period Martial has ever been afforded) yet kept their place in the side. In the case of Ibra and Lukaku Jose even refused to sub them.
I assume Jose would too, which is why I said the player would likely evaluate the managers trust in him.
Depends tbh, I actually think he is a better striker than a LW myself, but I don't have a preference. Also of course he could play as a striker for others sides, Juve isn't the only side he could go to.
The main reason I bring up the CF role is for historical context, it seems like this is something which is important to him or has been in the past
Mourinho. Because Martial has good stats this season and was doing well before being jarringly shunted and dropped for Sanchez.
Different players have different personalities. Managers should learn to deal with all. Ok to do thos to Shaw as I don't think he has great potential, but when its' a player with potential like Martial, you can't just up and sell him, especially with the stats he has this season.
Even if they are out of form for an extended period?No. That's not how it works. The anomaly is Martial. Now the excuse for Martial is he has a 'complicated' personality. Sanchez will be first choice LW because he is the best player. The same way Lukaku is first choice number 9 because he is the best player.
Beyond that, it's probably Rashford vs Martial. I dont want to get into that, but there you go.
Even if they are out of form for an extended period?
No. That's not how it works. The anomaly is Martial. Now the excuse for Martial is he has a 'complicated' personality. Sanchez will be first choice LW because he is the best player. The same way Lukaku is first choice number 9 because he is the best player.
Beyond that, it's probably Rashford vs Martial. I dont want to get into that, but there you go. Either both play back up LW or play on the right. What do you do now?
The manager is responsible for developing our best asset who - 1) has done well for his age this seson, 2) was unfairly pushed about and dropped after Sanchez came.
Sanchez has been our best player for all of one game against a poor Swansea side. I think even Martial would have finished that Lingard pass, one decent game and now Sanchez is our best player?
Martial has been very good for us in his first and third season (so far) under two managers who don't know how to best use him and yet apparently class will prevail only for Sanchez
No relevance. Rashford is not good enough to stake claim for a starting LW spot. This has nothing to do with overall youth development, its' just about Martial.
