Obviously, but I think it's definitely flaws that can be improved on and fixed, or worked around. No young player is perfect. Like I said, I'm not too worried about them because I'm pretty confident that they'll both iron out their issues with enough time and develop into top players, and I'm pretty confident that Mourinho has full faith in both long term. Obviously doesn't mean they are amazing players yet, far from it. I will always be way more forgiving of them though because they're our 2 most promising players, and they can have great performances, they can have shit performances, but at the end of the day, they should learn from every single one of them to develop into better players. It's not like it's a case of both being players who are expected to be in their prime now but are underperforming. Both have been productive, both quality in spurts and then shit at times too. Expected from young players because of inconsistency and flaws in their game that they have to improve on. If they both have Ronaldo type of perfectionist mentalities (highly unlikely), then they'll both become world class irrespective of system/manager because of the natural talent they have, which they show now, albeit inconsistently, even though we have issues with our attacking system, a lack of enough world class attacking players, or our only world class creative player being unavailable for large spells.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Status
Nobody is going to call for them to be sold or shit like that. Or nobody in their right mind at least (just saw @Number1 's post so I guess there are some).
I honestly believe chances are he will be sold in the summer. Either through him wanting a change or him not being deemed 'not good enough', so I'm not sure what all this "no body in their right mind" (wants him sold) as he's been sat on the bench for 75% of the season and specualtion on him leaving went all on last summer too, even a loan move got mentioned after his performances last season.
I believe he's the most overrated young player in the Premier League, he's not a patch on the likes of Sane in terms of potential.
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Poor performance. More excuses are fabricated to bash the manager. 'donkey' Lukaku was doing one touch football and taking on players, frozen out of the squad Mkhitaryan was moving the ball faster. But this guys the best player in the team.
Luke Shaw had a good performance, so they can't talk about the left back not supporting him. He's had a run of games so they can't talk about him not being given time to get into form. Its becoming more obvious that when the team isn't built around him he's just a decent player. When the team is built around him he's a good player (nowhere near world class).
The only saving grace was that Rashford, Darmian and Blind were even worse.
Luke Shaw had a good performance, so they can't talk about the left back not supporting him. He's had a run of games so they can't talk about him not being given time to get into form. Its becoming more obvious that when the team isn't built around him he's just a decent player. When the team is built around him he's a good player (nowhere near world class).
The only saving grace was that Rashford, Darmian and Blind were even worse.
He was our best player alongside pogba in the first half - second anonymous
Think you're right.
I'm a big fan and don't believe we play a way that suits him best BUT he does need to toughen up. Relish the fight a bit more. He's a bit too slick or at least wants to be.
Sit him down in front of a George Best compilation.
Fecking useless tonight. But he’ll get a pass cause sometimes he can dribble a ball.
Seriously the only time he’s good is when he’s brought on against tired defenders. And don’t mention his first season. We were useless till Rashford came on the scene and we finished fecking 6th.
If we want to win Premier Leagues again, we need better. The sooner people stop settling for the average, the better. We were better with the likes of Nani and Chicharito in the squad. Martial isn’t even close to them.
Seriously the only time he’s good is when he’s brought on against tired defenders. And don’t mention his first season. We were useless till Rashford came on the scene and we finished fecking 6th.
If we want to win Premier Leagues again, we need better. The sooner people stop settling for the average, the better. We were better with the likes of Nani and Chicharito in the squad. Martial isn’t even close to them.
The same Chicharito who can’t get a game for West Ham.
Yes Nani was amazingly consistent too.
We should sell him? Are you completely out of your mind?
Yes, Chicharito and that Ronaldinho'esque technique.
I wouldn't even bother responding to comments like that, it's nonsense not worth the attention.
Weren't you one of those bigging up Lukaku before we signed him?
What do you mean rest your case? He was sold by Leverkusen for a pittance too.
He’s not as great as you think he is. Otherwise he wouldn’t be playing for West Ham.
Who’s talking about now? I’m saying we were much better with the likes of Nani and Hernandez back THEN. And we were.
Martial is overrated cause of a stupid Ballon d’Or clause he’s never gonna win. He’s not much different to the likes of Memphis Depay. Another Van Gaal signing that doesn’t fit the philosophy of the club. The sooner we get rid of all them, the better.
What is this mystical philosophy of the club mediocre players like Lukaku fit yet martial cannot live up to?
What are you jabbering on about?
We were better back then due to Fergie and the squad we had. Not because we had Chicharito who couldn’t control a ball or Nani we didn’t know what version was going to show up.
If Martial had played in those squads under Fergie with a winning mentality he’d have been doing a lot better. But he’s not done bad so far.
Played like a striker forced to be a winger.
Both Martial and Rashford are central players and not wingers. Their best football comes as strikers who have freedom to drift wide. Lukaku is not really the type of striker suited to their football. With lukaku we need wide players who's primary role is to cross the ball in.
He's not developed as he should have. Looked a much better player in his first season. The manager and set up don't suit him.
Both Martial and Rashford are central players and not wingers. Their best football comes as strikers who have freedom to drift wide. Lukaku is not really the type of striker suited to their football. With lukaku we need wide players who's primary role is to cross the ball in.
He's not developed as he should have. Looked a much better player in his first season. The manager and set up don't suit him.
Jesus the state of this post
How does Martial not fit the philosophy of the club? A young, exciting, creative, fast and direct attacking player? Isn't that the type of player United has always aimed to have? Martial isn't overrated because of a ballon d'or clause. He's rated as highly as he is because of his natural talent and being capable of some ridiculous pieces of play that very few in the world are capable of. Also because of what he's produced so far, and notably scoring 17 goals playing as a winger mainly in his first season in the prem at the age of 19. It's not because of some clause. It's because of the shit he's done on the pitch.Though it's probably no use saying any of this to you. Hell, you were probably one of those fans who were super critical of Ronaldo in his early days and said he was nothing but a primadonna who was all tricks and nothing else and wouldn't amount to anything. Or that you wouldn't want someone like Hazard at the club because he sometimes gets lazy or doesn't have the same drive that Ronaldo has
I love how talented young players on here are regularly written off after any display of inconsistency befitting their age.
Especially given they are attackers playing in a not so attacking set up. There's barely a consistent world class attacker around the game nowadays that's playing in such a side yet our ones who are young and dumb are expected to be. Shocking to see how some people cant see how much talent this boy has.
Indeed.
Me thinks some on here are just dumb really. Even If you watch Manchester City, even in spite of performing well, the likes of Sterling, Sane and Jesus regularly show their inexperience and that they are still young players. But on here folks slaughter our boys at the sight of any flaw. Its maddening.
I’ve been a Ronaldo fan since Day 1. He’s still my favourite player to this day and I can honestly tell you Martial isn’t even in the same bracket as a young Ronaldo.Jesus the state of this post
Though it's probably no use saying any of this to you. Hell, you were probably one of those fans who were super critical of Ronaldo in his early days and said he was nothing but a primadonna who was all tricks and nothing else and wouldn't amount to anything. Or that you wouldn't want someone like Hazard at the club because he sometimes gets lazy or doesn't have the same drive that Ronaldo has
There’s a lot of things that sum up why Martial isn’t a United player. But if you honestly can’t see them when looking at him on the pitch then there’s probably no point in me elaborating further.
I’m not the only one that’s said it either. Scholes has criticised him in the past.
Even Messi would struggle in a Jose side
The Mourinho philosophy for a start.
Mourinho always had a physical strong striker up front. Drogba, Ibrahimovic, Costa, etc. But it’s clear to me that Martial doesn’t fit in this philosophy and he feels under pressure to play him.
This in turn is hurting our chances of winning silverware.
If he sold Martial and bought Perisic, he risks criticism and resentment from the fans. But guys like me know it would probably be for the best because A. Martial doesn’t fit his system and B. If Mourinho had complete control, we would win more trophies. And that’s all I want to see.
The only thing scholes said about him was he didn't react much if he scored or missed. So a body language expert type thing, which is of course a load of bollocks. He's also praised him plenty of times. As have Gary Neville and especially Rio Ferdinand.
Is Martial in the same bracket as Ronaldo? No, but almost none are. It's ridiculous 5o say he isn't a United type player when he's actually the exact type of player that Fergie would turn into a brilliant player.
Come on. Mourinho feels pressured to start him? What a load of crap. Mourinho has never cared about that and if anyone played anyone out of fear of fan reaction, they aren't fit to be manager in the first place. Mourinho doesn't give a feck about fan opinion and rightly so. He does what he thinks is best, but that isn't always the best decision.
So you say the only type of striker Mourinho likes is a big physical striker? So thatds just a Mourinho preference and not a Manchester United philosophy. Are you saying someone like Messi wouldn't succeed under Mourinho because he isn't the type? Aguero? Don't be ridiculous.
So that settles it, Ronaldo is the better player
And yet two of your favourite United players are Moyes signings. You can't have it both ways.
Lukaku was incapable of controlling a perfect ball from Pogba last night and has already endured a period where he scored 1 goal in 9 league games. He's the undisputed first choice striker at the club. In what world is Martial more of a problem? Vague justications like not 'getting it' are not valid criticisms.
He would almost certainly play Messi as a RW.
And I do believe Mourinho feels pressured to keep up “United traditions”.... look at all the young players he’s playing compared to his time at Chelsea and even Real. Could you see guys like McTominay, Shaw, Martial, or even Rashford getting a look in during his stints at those clubs? He would be too busy jumping into the market and buying match winners. I have a suspicion that he really wants to do that at United but knows if it sells some of these youth players off, the media will jump on his back about it.
I wouldn't bother about @Jaybomb guys. He's not gonna give an inch about what he considers 'Utd player' as if he's the only one capable in the whole fan base.
Young players have bad games. Nani was serving up the occasional stinker even in his 18 months of good form here, but sure, it's all down to Martial or Rashford for that matter that we fail to beat Bristol City, or hanging on for dear life against West Brom, or struggle to score more than a goal at home against Bournemouth.
This squad has no confident whatsoever to impose themselves and play freely for months already now. That comes from the top down.
Young players have bad games. Nani was serving up the occasional stinker even in his 18 months of good form here, but sure, it's all down to Martial or Rashford for that matter that we fail to beat Bristol City, or hanging on for dear life against West Brom, or struggle to score more than a goal at home against Bournemouth.
This squad has no confident whatsoever to impose themselves and play freely for months already now. That comes from the top down.
As they should. United traditions should never be abandoned. Mourinho can feck right off if he chooses to abandon all that in favor of going full negative, physical football. Thankfully, I doubt he even wants to do that or is actually feeling pressured into doing it. Genuinely think at Chelsea they always demanded instant results and didn't care about youth so he just played the old heads. Here he didn't hesitate to play youth. You adapt to the club's traditions.
And yeah, he'd play Messi as a winger and demand he tracks back and does his role defensively just like he did with Hazard (and then dropped him, the most talented player in the league), instead of realizing that some players you just need to let them do their own thing as they are that talented on the ball. Can't man manage everyone in the same way, you need to be able to adapt to your players.
Good post. He had a bad match, which is expected at his age, specially in a team with no proper attacking identity.
All three of those players were established Premier League players with international caps when Mourinho took charge. Shaw even turned down a move to Chelsea when Mourinho was in charge. If McTominay was sold tomorrow I don't think anyone would be losing sleep over it.
It's comical how often you talk down legitimate talent to promote nothing players.
At the same time, we also have the comical jizzing over Sterling and Sane, two admittedly good/great talent, but made to look much better playing in Pep's system. Those people should take a look at Coman and Douglas Costa now before shitting on our own players.
Indeed, a good system makes the players shine. I don't know what the hell is Mourinho coaching them when attacking but it surely ain't helping them. I feel like there is too much expectation on individual brilliance rather than something collective. It's hard to see where Martial/Rashford have clearly improved since their respective introduction to the team.
I personally think that this criticism isn't limited to Mourinho. In Fergie's latter years post 2010, we've become increasingly reliant on individual brilliance rather than any noticeable, fluid pattern of play, hence no youth player has made any progress in the team, since they aren't taught to abide by a system but thrown into the deep end and has to rely on instincts. It also doesn't help that most of the promising youngsters we have since were/are no.9/10 by trade and the pressure of delivering at Utd means we often shunned them to the wings to get game time instead of playing in their natural positions. This even applies at the defence with Smalling/Jones/Evans all playing their fair share of games as fullbacks.
We are now stuck in this weird no man's land between trying to blood the kids and competing for silverware. Between 04-06 Fergie was prepared to stick by Rooney/Ronaldo even at the expense of veterans like Ruud because he was comfortable in his own job safety. Any Utd manager now is burdened with the pressure of winning silverware, especially the PL so we will see a lot more of taking shortcuts from Mourinho or whosoever follows him regarding the quality of our attacking play.
I thought the ref did not protect him at all during the game, he was getting kicked around after about 15 minutes.
A bad day at the office, like most of our guys today but what is really bizarre is his off the ball movement when he isn't in the final third. It is really really weird and I don't understand it, I found myself glancing down at the screen when we had the ball in our own half and seeing him standing around and not moving forward at all. It must be some form of instructional disconnect because when there is space in front of him he doesn't even try to run into it and make himself available.
Strange stuff, but sure as a young lad will need to grow, time is on his side.
A bad day at the office, like most of our guys today but what is really bizarre is his off the ball movement when he isn't in the final third. It is really really weird and I don't understand it, I found myself glancing down at the screen when we had the ball in our own half and seeing him standing around and not moving forward at all. It must be some form of instructional disconnect because when there is space in front of him he doesn't even try to run into it and make himself available.
Strange stuff, but sure as a young lad will need to grow, time is on his side.
The problem with him which not many seem to put is his off the ball movement. How many times I have seen him just stand when he doesn't have the ball. I have never seen an attacker with such lack of movement. Most of the times even the midfielders out run him and are almost inside the oppositions box and I see him walking slowly. That concerns me.
Now coming to the manager. I don't think Jose is working enough with him. I see more emphasis is given on overall play which is fine but you have to do your job well first which most of our attackers are not doing.
Whenever Martial starts I get excited and want him to score and do well because I don't trust Jose. I really hope Jose doesn't freeze him out again because He said most of the players starting today won't start against Leicester. Whenever such statements come I fear for marital.
Now coming to the manager. I don't think Jose is working enough with him. I see more emphasis is given on overall play which is fine but you have to do your job well first which most of our attackers are not doing.
Whenever Martial starts I get excited and want him to score and do well because I don't trust Jose. I really hope Jose doesn't freeze him out again because He said most of the players starting today won't start against Leicester. Whenever such statements come I fear for marital.
Not defending him entirely as he was not good but he must have got 5 certain fouls against him last night and Dean just waved play on. One of them was almost comical.
Exactly my point. Nobody mentions them anymore on these boards
I wish I could call out those silly people advocating we sign an average player like Douglas Costa to replace Martial.
Then the other ones who were claiming Kingsley Conman was definitely more talented than Martial too. All of them with egg on their faces.
@Son Of Sam is making similar silly claims about Sane and Sterling being world class already while Martial and Rashford are shit and we struggle due to them.
Someone is gonna look a fool soon.
Still think Pogba and Martial were our best players last night (not that thats saying much). The only time we looked dangerous was when those two had little interplay's together. Martial still needs to impose himself on games more but hes a million miles better than Rashford who is shocking at the moment.
Edit: Martial really isnt the problem in our team. Start him for a top team and he would be world class. We just have no attacking plan whatsoever and its stifling genuine talent. Of course most of our fans are too blind too see that and can look no further than individual performances in a team game.
Edit: Martial really isnt the problem in our team. Start him for a top team and he would be world class. We just have no attacking plan whatsoever and its stifling genuine talent. Of course most of our fans are too blind too see that and can look no further than individual performances in a team game.
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