Evidently.
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Evidently.
Fair point, my point is the same though, Jose is handling the two players really well, it's paying off and both players are happy.
That post about Martial "may" be unhappy later ? I don't read the future so I have no comment.
The team will continue to evolve. I expect signings and outgoings. Mata might even leave (contract expiring) and there could be a shift. It seems as if Mourinho might want to shift to 352 as well. We have options and Martial will get his fair share of games. We shouldn't think too far ahead, and I dont think it will get to the point where Martial isn't playing enough. Both him and Rashford will get to a level where they simply both have to play in the more important games, they look like two of the best young talents in world football with great potential. To be fair CSKA was an important game.
You can't say this isn't planned though. Its almost to a T as to how he treated Mkhi last year, all the way to posters crying about how he was dropped after a good performance.
This is such an extreme example with Rashford playing so well so he may as well stick with what works. Theres no point in rocking the boat in the hope of only being in the situation we're already in.
This is such an extreme example with Rashford playing so well so he may as well stick with what works. Theres no point in rocking the boat in the hope of only being in the situation we're already in.
I'm not necessarily talking about performance level, but the type of things they can offer to Mourinho. Im sure Fellaini has shown a lot to Mourinho without being that 'special' on the pitch. I only mention training because the team will be working on systems and tactics and Mourinho probably see's that Rashford carries out instructions etc better. Also stuff like dedication, attacking work rate etc comes into play. Rashford is on freekicks because he's probably great at them in training.
This is a good point. The more we win and progress the more games we play. There would be too many games for a player for a position. It's a good problem to have. Unless a player is thick and can't understand, then it should not be the problem between them especially younger players.
Not really, Mkhitaryan was completely out of the team for a couple of months, to the extent that people wondered if things had gone on behind the scenes. Martial is still playing regularly, starting every other game, contributing and looking confident.
I don't have a big problem with how things are going at the moment, as you said, it's working for us and both Martial and Rashford seem to be enjoying themselves. Big teams need to have squads full of quality, and that means that sometimes you have a great player who doesn't get to play. Ideally I would like to see both of them starting, and maybe we will see that pretty soon
Can Martial really sit there and be aggrieved considering the results and Rashford's form and dedication? I think Martial knows he is playing well and is getting chances he may not have got last year. It's an interesting dynamic and it's great that we have 4 competitons we can really go after where they can both share the burden.
There's truth in that.
We never know I guess. I think with Mkhitaryan, a key difference is that Mourinho signed him. I think he would always give him a chance.
Perhaps it's just all tough love with Martial. What I do know is that Mourinho sooner or later has to find a way to get him in his team. It's counterproductive not to. The only players in the squad with a real claim to being 'better' than him all play behind him in my opinion.
You keep saying this over and over again. Fine he is happy and all is well.
Maybe Jose was testing his mental strength too because that is something he likes in players, last year Martial was a bit fragile but this seasn seems so much more confident and disciplined as a player. He has come out publiclly saying he is happy and has won silverware under Jose and probably realises he can win more, he is still playing games and the season is early but this competition is good because both realise if they have a poor game then next week there rotated which keeps the levels high as well as there goals/assists and points for the team.
I agree. I think Martial looks really hungry and Mourinho is repsonding to that by giving him more playing time.
@Ibi Dreams
But Joses treatment of Martial started last season when Lingard even kept him out, this is the tail end of the process.
The main point is this clearly works. If Jose continues then its because he has more to give.
We shouldn't change a thing for now.
But Joses treatment of Martial started last season when Lingard even kept him out, this is the tail end of the process.
The main point is this clearly works. If Jose continues then its because he has more to give.
We shouldn't change a thing for now.
Strange. Some here can't stop talking about him must playing every game and that he may leave every match leading to the thread reaching 109 pages in September but same posters can't withstand the opposite being repeated.
Is this thread open for moaning only ?
how did you reach that assumption? as in what makes you think this is the most "focused" he's ever been in our colours? and what do you mean by focused?
I wouldn't say he's aggrieved per se.
Perhaps it's a difference in how high we rate the player I guess. All you are saying makes sense in terms of logic, but I don't believe it's enough for a player of Martial's ability. All that 'plenty of games' stuff is true, but is more relevant for some players than others - take Blind, Darmian, Lingard and co. Yes, 'we play four competitions'. With Martial, I'm looking at a player who, if allowed, will be amongst the very best forward players in England. Not 'in the future' even. This season. It makes little sense to me that he should not be in the team unless injured or fatigued, in the same way I don't expect Pogba to return to the bench because Fellaini or Herrera are 'playing well'.
I don't know all that goes on behind the scenes, and perhaps his level of performance is partially linked to his motivation to get a place - but this is a player I think is our best attacker. If anyone is to be rotated in attack, it shouldn't be him. So perhaps it's simply a case of Mourinho and a section of posters not thinking he's as good as I do. He's a super talent, was the most expensive teenager in the world, and one we were lucky to sign, as those players usually go to Spain. He should be the one providing the 'difference' for us. Just let him. Maybe Jose will, in due time.
I agree and your point is strengthened even further by our Perisic chase for the entirety of last summer.
@Scorpy
Jose himself said Perisic would be playing in basically Youngs role if we signed him.
Jose himself said Perisic would be playing in basically Youngs role if we signed him.
What, full-back?
@Rozay
"I have faith in [Anthony Martial]. Probably, the [fourth] player I was looking at in the transfer market was not a pure winger. As a pure attacking option, Martial is a good player. He is one of the players who will have a better season than last season. I have pure wingers. The player I was looking for would allow me to play three at the back and play with wing-backs."
"I have faith in [Anthony Martial]. Probably, the [fourth] player I was looking at in the transfer market was not a pure winger. As a pure attacking option, Martial is a good player. He is one of the players who will have a better season than last season. I have pure wingers. The player I was looking for would allow me to play three at the back and play with wing-backs."
I see what you mean, perhaps you're right. In fairness Lingard does have his uses and some of the time he probably merited his starting spot over the Martial of last season, but I understand you. But yeah, it's working great and we don't need to change it at the moment
We've resigned Ibra to be the man to replace Lukaku should the need arise. Not sure it'd be Martial's job to step in there.
If anything we should be reducing Lukaku's (and Matic's) workload now, not wait till they are fecked like we did with Ibra last season. Ibra played every single minute, never being subbed off until his performances really started to dip before his injury. And I still don't understand why it's always the same players coming off even after the game has been practically killed. What was the point of keeping Lukaku and Matic on the pitch for full 90" after the 3-0 today? God knows.
Anyhow, back to Martial, the rotation should be extended to other players too. If Mkhi is off form, put Mata at #10 and start Rashford on the RW and Martial LW for example. At the moment Mkhi and Mata seem automatic picks with only Rashford and Martial Rotating. Or maybe give Lukaku a rest in an easy game and play Martial and Rashford up front.
This is my biggest gripe with Mourinho. Herrera could easily have replaced Matic at 60' and Martial could have replaced Lukaku with Rashford moving centrally.
This lack of rotation will come back to bite us sooner or later.
Well that's strange, because Perisic is basically the definition of a pure winger, but I guess Mourinho wanted to convert him to a wing-back and switch to a 3-5-2 formation.
It's definitely interesting. I think switching to 3-5-2 is Jose's long-term plan and signing Griezmann would be another step in that direction.
@MadMike
We might not see Ibra until Jan though, its not like he's in the wings waiting.
We're rotating enaugh as it is, Im not sure rotating 7/8 players every other week by the end of September is really necessary
We might not see Ibra until Jan though, its not like he's in the wings waiting.
We're rotating enaugh as it is, Im not sure rotating 7/8 players every other week by the end of September is really necessary
Rashford has always been the back up 9. Both when Ibra was injured and even when Lukaku didn't play against Burton.
I like Martial as a 9, but think Rashford has played his best stuff for us through the middle.
Sure, but the argument of "keeping Martial fresh in in case of injuries to Lukaku" doesn't really hold, as even in the case where Lukaku breaks a leg (touch wood) Martial will only have to play all games till Ibra's back. He doesn't need to be kept fresh for that. Watch Lukaku play every single game till January anyway, with 0 concerns from Mourinho about keeping him fresh for the end of the season.
Also let's not confuse rotation with subbing people off to be rested. Lukaku, Matic and Valencia are not only not rotated, but they are never taken off for rest when the game is dead. Same as what we did last season with Pogba and Ibra and backfired.
Just based on how he looks when he is out on the pitch, the determination when out there and hunger to create an impact.
Yeah clearly Mourinho values Lukaku over Martial. But he is happy to rotate Martial, Rashford, Mata around Lukaku.
Excellent performance when he came on. Does anyone think Jose should start him more often . . . . .
Mourinho always got some of his men that are undroppable on the pitch and won't sub them off because his system is fully depending on them. Pogba, Matic and Lukaku will play the 90 minutes in each league and CL game they're available for no matter what.
I find that quite strange too but it definitely seems to be Jose's way. He has certain key players that play every minute of every game no matter what.
Fergie was the complete opposite and whenever a game was won, his first reaction was to sub off his best players.
I can understand the Lukaku one yesterday in isolation as getting the late goal keeps his scoring run going and is great for his confidence. But I agree that both Zlatan and Pogba were massively over played last season.
Well the guy he replaced seemed to have created multiple assists.
Are people just blind to the fact Martial and Rashford are doing really well? It blows my mind.
Calm down, just because he thinks Martial should start more often doesn't mean Rashford is the one he thinks should be sent to the bench. Really, the decision shouldn't have to be either/or - especially in games like against Palace.
You've got a player who half limped off midweek not starting a game and this thread goes into meltdown because he didn't start against Palace at home and we're obviously selling him in the summer. It's quite something.
Agreed, Palace at home isn't a game to risk an injury.
Good lord!
Townsend reaction
Glad he has the week off after seeing him get a knock there at the end
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