The thing with the Liverpool match, I thought he was decent. He had their RB on toast, and then he started getting double teamed, triple teamed. The problem is, when that was happening, it was creating spaces elsewhere and we didnt take advantage. Also doesnt help we dont have a really good LB to overlap and take advantage either.
9
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Exactly this, but the press make it out that Martial went AWOL without consent and it was because of a huge bust up, idiots.
True, tho this is down to our MF being pretty poor.
@Esquire no player is bigger than the club, that I totally agree. We'll move on if Martial does leave. It'd be gutting to see him flourish at another club, however.
I do think Jose had been a bit extra tough on Martial because of the stuff with his agent. What is frustrating is scoring V Middleborough and then getting dropped. Playing okay V Liverpool (hardly worse than any other attacking player) and then getting dropped.
Mourinho has definitely earnt the right to manage his players how he sees fit, however. I just really hope Martial uses this to work hard and get back to what we know he can.
I do think Jose had been a bit extra tough on Martial because of the stuff with his agent. What is frustrating is scoring V Middleborough and then getting dropped. Playing okay V Liverpool (hardly worse than any other attacking player) and then getting dropped.
Mourinho has definitely earnt the right to manage his players how he sees fit, however. I just really hope Martial uses this to work hard and get back to what we know he can.
Mourinho seems to be fairly consistent in his treatment of players I feel. It's clear he values work ethic and harmony over talent. As @Cantona_Forever points out, players (and whose agents and entourage) who bitch and whine and don't put in a shift (based on his expectation of their appropriate level gets short shrift.
We saw it with BFS, we saw it with Rooney, we saw it with Mhiki and now Martial. I think it is suggesting that it is less to do with Martial's form but his general behaviour (which honestly none of us know for certain).
People questioning why Lingard is ahead? It's simple really. Maybe Mourinho sees Lingard as a 75/100 player and Lingard always puts in a shift at 70 at least. But perhaps Martial is a 90/100 player but only putting in 75. So in absolute terms Martial is still better but relatively Lingard deserves a place more.
This way of managing players in nothing new. SAF has also done this before. If we want Mourinho to turn things around, we need to give him the authority to do as he see fit. It may be unfortunate but if Martial needs to be shipped out ultimately then so be it. No player should be bigger than the club - we have seen the effects at Chelsea, we have seen it with Rooney. This club has lost great players before and we can cope, especially if the manager is the right one.
Personally I think Martial and his entourage will get the message, learn to shut up and buckle down and it will be ok.
We saw it with BFS, we saw it with Rooney, we saw it with Mhiki and now Martial. I think it is suggesting that it is less to do with Martial's form but his general behaviour (which honestly none of us know for certain).
People questioning why Lingard is ahead? It's simple really. Maybe Mourinho sees Lingard as a 75/100 player and Lingard always puts in a shift at 70 at least. But perhaps Martial is a 90/100 player but only putting in 75. So in absolute terms Martial is still better but relatively Lingard deserves a place more.
This way of managing players in nothing new. SAF has also done this before. If we want Mourinho to turn things around, we need to give him the authority to do as he see fit. It may be unfortunate but if Martial needs to be shipped out ultimately then so be it. No player should be bigger than the club - we have seen the effects at Chelsea, we have seen it with Rooney. This club has lost great players before and we can cope, especially if the manager is the right one.
Personally I think Martial and his entourage will get the message, learn to shut up and buckle down and it will be ok.
lol
I think this could be it. And I think Deschamps has criticized Martial's effort too hasn't he?
Still worried though. Martial is such a special talent. Hope it gets sorted.
Id rather keep JM.
What happens if you get another Davey Moyes type manager that has great players and doesnt know how to manage them ?
If our other attackers showed half the skill and drive to create against Liverpool we would have won easily.
He was not poor against Liverpool at all.
He was not poor against Liverpool at all.
apparently Kingsley Coman has been less than impressive too. Maybe playing a full season and then the euros affected them.
Yeah but this particular manager has a typical shelf life of about 3 years and there isn't anything to suggest Martial has done any wrongdoing.
From where you and everyone of us is sitting we don't see much of what is genuinely going on and assumes a lot. We base on 90+ minutes of a game every week or few days and decides how Martial is being mistreated or has fallen out with the manager. That's barely 10% of the time the players spend around the manager and who knows what the rest of that time is like between Jose and Martial.
Agreed, if he doesn't fancy him wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to send him out on loan. Selling him would be a disaster.
Hypothetical but I am almost certain Martial would be on course to become a star if SAF was still our manager. Every player is different and SAF knew just exactly how to get the best out of each player playing under him. At the very least he'd be playing him almost every game some for 90 minutes some for 30, sometimes on the left, other times on the right, swapping wings during the game to just about do anything to give the boy some confidence.
Mourinho is a good manager but I am afraid Martial will end up like Memphis come next season. He's just so talented that it would be criminal to waste such a player in his formative years.
Mourinho is a good manager but I am afraid Martial will end up like Memphis come next season. He's just so talented that it would be criminal to waste such a player in his formative years.
Mou said himself his attitude is not in question at all. One assumes he just doesn't like what he's seen (so far).
I think the LB situation doesn't help. First need to get Shaw/Blind at LB. I think we'd see a lot more productively in Martial's play if this change was made.
This is a fantastic point. Darmian might be solid enough defensively but he is brain dead when it comes to going forward and timing his runs. You see How fantastic we look on the right side it's largely because of Valencia being great at both attack/defence. Always a good outlet for us.
He's not been terrible, but he has been ineffective for the most part this season, aside from a couple of games. If you don't play well enough you shouldn't get to play every game, so I don't get why some people are having a go at Jose about that. He's had plenty of chances to perform better.
We really need someone effective on the left side if we want to up the goals, so it's up to Martial whether he can step it up very quickly and be consistent about it, or we get someone new in and he's second string til they move (I'm thinking either Griezmann could move into the striker role after Ibra, or Sanchez would be retiring age if we got him).
For me that's the top and bottom of it. I like him and he's got bags of potential, but you can't just keep playing someone when our attack is struggling (I know he's had a few performances where he's been the catalyst in attack too).
Agree that the LB situation hasn't helped either.
We really need someone effective on the left side if we want to up the goals, so it's up to Martial whether he can step it up very quickly and be consistent about it, or we get someone new in and he's second string til they move (I'm thinking either Griezmann could move into the striker role after Ibra, or Sanchez would be retiring age if we got him).
For me that's the top and bottom of it. I like him and he's got bags of potential, but you can't just keep playing someone when our attack is struggling (I know he's had a few performances where he's been the catalyst in attack too).
Agree that the LB situation hasn't helped either.
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They were not married
Don't get the moaning. No one has cemented that spot so it's being rotated, same as left back.
The moaning is because people feel Martial has been dropped when he was actually beginning to show some of his best form this season. This gives the impression that Mourinho is not handling him correctly, although it now looks like actually Mourinho still expects more from Martial, and wants him to fight more for his place - Far from the rift suggested in the media. No one has cemented that spot, but no one (unless you're of a certain quality) will cement that spot either if they are subject to rotation that easily. I can't complain about Martial being dropped many times, but at this moment is imo the wrong time. Anyway let's see if he starts tonight. I have a good feeling.
Hard to disagree with that.
I honestly view this situation as a manager trying to inspire a player to go from being a promising talent to a world class player. Martial will come out a better player from this type of management.
He is hardly 21 years old, give him some breathing room for fecks sake.
Give him a consistent run of games and let him enjoy his football.
Give him a consistent run of games and let him enjoy his football.
F
Fantastic article. Might I add Martial playing would give miktaryan a better target than an immobile ibrahimovich after all miki is a midfielder not a striker
We don't have any transparency into the daily ongoings of the team. So all things being equal shouldn't the manager have absolute discretion of who he plays?
Not according to this.
In our last five games only Lingard has played fewer minutes than Martial.
Yes, would be ridiculous to force a manager to play someone.
I agree Martial is definitely a talent and we should not push him out. I also agree that Mou has been pretty tough on him. In this case, I think Martial can use a little tough love. I know I may be living in fantasy land but today's players are definitely self-entitled. It should be a privilege playing for United and to bitch and moan through your agent about not getting playing time is not going to endear you to fans or the coaching staff. If Martial was an average player like Lingard you think most of the people in his camp on here would put up with him? Of course not. That said, I don't think just because he is an outstanding talent he deserves to be baby sat but Mou.
Hope so. Mourinho did something similar with Joe Cole and that ended up taking his performances to another level. Until he fell of the face of the Earth at the age of about 26...
Why on earth do you not read through the pages to see there are many who think he should be the LW by default because others are deemed not as good or have been putting in similar performances.
I am questioning your rationale in challenging Mou's thought process, which he has explained time and again - that Martial has not been capitalising on the chances the manger hands out.
Probably, but he's a bit of a knobhead
I pretty much actively participated in this discussion in the last 15 pages mate, trust me lol ik what I'm writing. Majority of people are questioning Mourinho's decision to drop him just when he started to build up his form.
He should be given a run of games when he's playing good, because what's the point of having him performing good in one game only to have him dropped from the squad altogether in the next?
Which of our players that are playing on LW position have exactly been having eye-catching performances? He played great vs. Middlesbrough, Reading and West Ham yet everytime he got dropped.
Against Arsenal and Liverpool he was good, so unless Mourinho thinks he should be pulling out Messi -esque performances everytime he's on the pitch, than it difficult to explain what exactly he means by "not using his chances".
Agreed. He looked really sharp and up for it but Liverpool set up to protect the full back at that side and as a result very little ball came near him. Almost everything went down the other side.
The idea that he was poor is only coming from people who didnt really watch the game or are trying to justify Jose's decisions regarding him.
Not in the squad again tonight
We are Manchester United not Martialchester United.
Nice knowing you.
Hopefully see him in the FA Cup. Getting a bit annoying.
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