[R300k]

Training has not got anything to do with what I wrote.

So does what i wrote, if SAF didnt allow Tevez to take it easy, he would have benched him for the reason lacking of attitude, but SAF didnt because he knew from the beginning pushing too much could destroy Tevez (which truly happened in 2012 when Mancini put Tevez in competition of 4 strikers fighting for starting role alongside Aguero, Balotelli and Dzeko, he couldnt take it and angrily flew back to Argentina for the whole first part of this season), then SAF just gave Tevez an automatic starting role, let Tevez worked and played the way he wanted with freedom in his mind, he simply superbly exploded on the pitch. The same with Nani, heard somewhere before SAF never shout at him because he knew Nani's mentality couldnt deal with it.

An environment where players are never allowed to take it easy sometimes doesnt work with some specific players, De Bruyne couldnt deal with it at Chelsea as he always need starting role at his every clubs, but is he a bad player or not a winner? then Mou was wrong or right in his case? Sometimes when a player already does well in the pitch, giving him a comfortable mind to play, to create (especially important with attacking players) is more necessary, putting in his back many weights could become anti-infective, as long as this player still plays well and he is better than any other replacements, he simply automatically deserves his place in the squad, there is no reason putting more intensity forcing him to fight for what he already deserves

 

[Pexbo]

So does what i wrote, if SAF didnt allow Tevez to take it easy, he would have benched him for the reason lacking of attitude, but SAF didnt because he knew from the beginning pushing too much could destroy Tevez (which truly happened in 2012 when Mancini put Tevez in competition of 4 strikers fighting for starting role alongside Aguero, Balotelli and Dzeko, he couldnt take it and angrily flew back to Argentina for the whole first part of this season), then SAF just gave Tevez an automatic starting role, let Tevez worked and played the way he wanted with freedom in his mind, he simply superbly exploded on the pitch. The same with Nani, heard somewhere before SAF never shout at him because he knew Nani's mentality couldnt deal with it.

An environment where players are never allowed to take it easy sometimes doesnt work with some specific players, De Bruyne couldnt deal with it at Chelsea as he always need starting role at his every clubs, but is he a bad player or not a winner? then Mou was wrong or right in his case? Sometimes when a player already does well in the pitch, giving him a comfortable mind to play, to create (especially important with attacking players) is more necessary, putting in his back many weights could become anti-infective, as long as this player still plays well and he is better than any other replacements, he simply automatically deserves his place in the squad, there is no reason putting more intensity forcing him to fight for what he already deserves

It was Ferdinand who made those comments about Tevez's approach to training not Ferguson. It's likely the reason Tevez spent so much time on the bench in his second season was his half assed approach.

 

[R300k]

It was Ferdinand who made those comments about Tevez's approach to training not Ferguson. It's likely the reason Tevez spent so much time on the bench in his second season was his half assed approach.

Just check it bro, in chapter 16 of SAF My Autobiography

So Berbatov’s arrival relegated Tévez to more of a backup role. And around December in his second season, we started to feel he wasn’t doing especially well. The reason, I think, was that he’s the type of animal that needs to play all the time. If you’re not training intensively, which he wasn’t, you need to play regularly. During that winter, David Gill asked, ‘What do you want to do?’ I felt we ought to wait until later in the season to make a decision. ‘They want one now,’ David said. I replied, ‘Just tell them I’m trying to get him more games so we can assess it properly, because Berbatov is in the team a lot.’ Tévez did influence plenty of outcomes in the second half of the 2008–09 campaign, especially against Spurs at home, when we were 2–0 down, and I sent him on to shake things up. He chased absolutely everything. He brought huge enthusiasm to the cause and was the one responsible for us winning that match 5–2. His impact changed the course of events.

 

[Janson]

So does what i wrote, if SAF didnt allow Tevez to take it easy, he would have benched him for the reason lacking of attitude, but SAF didnt because he knew from the beginning pushing too much could destroy Tevez (which truly happened in 2012 when Mancini put Tevez in competition of 4 strikers fighting for starting role alongside Aguero, Balotelli and Dzeko, he couldnt take it and angrily flew back to Argentina for the whole first part of this season), then SAF just gave Tevez an automatic starting role, let Tevez worked and played the way he wanted with freedom in his mind, he simply superbly exploded on the pitch. The same with Nani, heard somewhere before SAF never shout at him because he knew Nani's mentality couldnt deal with it.

An environment where players are never allowed to take it easy sometimes doesnt work with some specific players, De Bruyne couldnt deal with it at Chelsea as he always need starting role at his every clubs, but is he a bad player or not a winner? then Mou was wrong or right in his case? Sometimes when a player already does well in the pitch, giving him a comfortable mind to play, to create (especially important with attacking players) is more necessary, putting in his back many weights could become anti-infective, as long as this player still plays well and he is better than any other replacements, he simply automatically deserves his place in the squad, there is no reason putting more intensity forcing him to fight for what he already deserves

What has Tevez to do with Martial, how do you know that Martial is anything like Tevez and what kind of treatment he needs?

As for De Bruyne, he was garbage whenever he got the chance at Chelsea. Yes, in hindsight Mourinho obviously got it wrong. But at the time he didn't warrant a run in the team. I remember him looking totally lost whenever he got the chance playing either on the left wing instead of Malouda or LCM a few times.
Seeing him play at the time, I didn't see anything special in him. He looked like a boy amongst men.

Mourinho has all these trophies and records to his name for a reason. Not allowing mediocrity is one of those.

 

[sunama]

Was excellent today and surely has that LW for the next few games at least. Love Mou shouting Go Go when he received the ball.
What did Mou say in his post match about him ?

LVG would ask his players to slow down their attacks. Think first. Take an extra touch to buy extra time and slow down the attack. Then implement the decision.
Jose is telling his players to bomb forward and attack with instinct, ie. no extra thinking time necessary.
It's chalk and cheese.

 

[Dobbs]

What has Tevez to do with Martial, how do you know that Martial is anything like Tevez and what kind of treatment he needs?

As for De Bruyne, he was garbage whenever he got the chance at Chelsea. Yes, in hindsight Mourinho obviously got it wrong. But at the time he didn't warrant a run in the team. I remember him looking totally lost whenever he got the chance playing either on the left wing instead of Malouda or LCM a few times.
Seeing him play at the time, I didn't see anything special in him. He looked like a boy amongst men.

Mourinho has all these trophies and records to his name for a reason. Not allowing mediocrity is one of those.

Well that's how it is with young players. They will let you down, they will underperform. You have to allow them mediocrity upto a certain age. If you don't you end up flogging a talent that in just a few years could be special.

 

[Hawks2008]

Played a blinder today, but this situation is win/win for Jose. If Martial comes back on fire then Jose is proven right, if he comes back and is still underperforming then jose is proven right. The reluctance of some to criticise Jose is very similar to the dippers with Klopp and Benitez.

 

[Janson]

Well that's how it is with young players. They will let you down, they will underperform. You have to allow them mediocrity upto a certain age. If you don't you end up flogging a talent that in just a few years could be special.

There is always a plentitude of kids touted to be the next big thing and only a tiny percentage of them actuallly make it. It's very difficult to distinguish the good ones from the bad ones. Giving them time could cost you.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I would love to see more games with Mata - Martial - Mkhi behind the striker (be it Ibra, Rashers or somebody else).
Those 3 + Pogba and Herrera have the potential to give us some amazing fluid attacking Football for years to come.

 

[Dobbs]

There is always a plentitude of kids touted to be the next big thing and only a tiny percentage of them actuallly make it. It's very difficult to distinguish the good ones from the bad ones. Giving them time could cost you.

Yes and that's always been the case with young players. The alternative is you just don't bother with them. Which sounds really boring.

 

[R300k]

What has Tevez to do with Martial, how do you know that Martial is anything like Tevez and what kind of treatment he needs?

As for De Bruyne, he was garbage whenever he got the chance at Chelsea. Yes, in hindsight Mourinho obviously got it wrong. But at the time he didn't warrant a run in the team. I remember him looking totally lost whenever he got the chance playing either on the left wing instead of Malouda or LCM a few times.
Seeing him play at the time, I didn't see anything special in him. He looked like a boy amongst men.

Mourinho has all these trophies and records to his name for a reason. Not allowing mediocrity is one of those.

I mentioned about Tevez's case because of many similarities related to Martial's situation now. Both already showed how talented they were here, both have problems because of their representatives, both confusedly lost their place to replacements having worse form than them Berbatov + Lingard/Rashford (as LW not ST).

Also that highlight is enough for me, a fault is a fault. The job of great managers has that part seeing something special in young talented players which not anybody can see. Jose used to drop a super name Kaka for new face 21 years old Oezil just coming from the average club Bremen you know, so when needed Mou could possibly go with young talents, gave these players a starting role for whole first season. In De Bruyne's case, it's simply that Mou couldnt see his potential or he ranked Oscar's quality above De Bruyne and decided not to take risk using him regularly. Mou chose wrong approach, played it hard against De Bruyne instead of using a tender approach like he did with Oezil and he missed it, that's it

 

[Ash_G]

Played a blinder today, but this situation is win/win for Jose. If Martial comes back on fire then Jose is proven right, if he comes back and is still underperforming then jose is proven right. The reluctance of some to criticise Jose is very similar to the dippers with Klopp and Benitez.

Guess we'll have to see at the end of the season. If we make top 4 then think Mou will get away without the criticism. If we don't then I think it's a fair question to ask if the way we've approached Martial/Mikhi during the season was really the best way or a bit ott given the number of draws we've had where these two could have made the difference, even in one game given how tight it is at the top.

 

[Ban]

Mou said he was good in the training last 2 weeks and that's what he wanted to see and yesterday game was a result of that.

 

[Moiraine]

So we have to pay 10 more million for him if he scores another goal. What kind of stupid deal we have signed ?

 

[LouisDanGaal]

I know some people on here believe he has been playing well for a month or 2 months or whatever period but its generally been in the cups and he has had stutters, yesterday was different, he has clearly impressed in training and his desire to get at his man and also defend was excellent yesterday, as it has been in certain matches throughout the season, coupled with his obviously directed celebration and social media use makes it pretty clear a page is being turned. That was a great performance and he will start the next game i'm sure.

 

[hubbuh]

You can't decouple his lack of confidence with his lack of goals. Mourinho recognized that and prioritized a training regime to rehabilitate his confidence and bring him back to his best. While random people here were moaning that Martial wasn't in the lineup and screwed up their points in lineup prediction game, Mourinho was busy taking a longer view to get him back to his best so he can remain there for a protracted period. That is precisely what should be expected of a world class manager.

Exactly. Not every player can play themselves into form. In fact it'd be rather detrimental to their development if they continued to get picked despite giving consistently mediocre performances. It also looks as if it has worked, at least for the moment. How is it a point of contention?

 

[hubbuh]

I remember one of the pundits mentioning it and it's not something you'd notice on Tv but his movement really could be better. Always coming towards the ball wanting it at his feet and only very rarely looks to run in behind. Which can make him a bit predictable. He also has a habit of shaping to run, then not fully committing, which can make a decent pass look very poor.

A minor gripe, though. Overall he played well and I'm really pleased he scored. Good to see Mourinho making a fuss of him on his way off too.

Definitely. There was a moment against Watford when there was an opportunity to make the move in behind Cathcart and wait for the ball to be played through but he did the opposite and went back looking for the ball. As a team though we haven't played those sort of incisive through balls behind defences in a while.

 

[Cantona's Collar]

I remember one of the pundits mentioning it and it's not something you'd notice on Tv but his movement really could be better. Always coming towards the ball wanting it at his feet and only very rarely looks to run in behind. Which can make him a bit predictable. He also has a habit of shaping to run, then not fully committing, which can make a decent pass look very poor.

A minor gripe, though. Overall he played well and I'm really pleased he scored. Good to see Mourinho making a fuss of him on his way off too.

Was at the match yesterday as well and this is something I noticed a couple of times, I think one was a pass from Pogba and the other from Blind where he shaped to run behind and then didn't commit which made the passes look poor. Thought he had a great game on the whole though and the excitement in the stands was palpable every time he got on the ball. Hopefully whatever Mourinho's issues with him were are a thing of the past now and he manages to cement his place in the starting eleven and hit the kind of form he was showing last season.

On another note it was kind of frustrating seeing him make some nice runs and then find himself with nobody in the box to pass to due to Zlatan playing so deep at times. I think there were three or four occasions in the first half where Martial managed to get past his marker and he ended up having to pass the ball backwards back into midfield due to nobody making runs into the box. I'm sure he must have found that annoying.

 

[Terminator]

Played a blinder today, but this situation is win/win for Jose. If Martial comes back on fire then Jose is proven right, if he comes back and is still underperforming then jose is proven right. The reluctance of some to criticise Jose is very similar to the dippers with Klopp and Benitez.

True, the blind trust a few supporters show in Mourinho is frightening.

 

[Ban]

True, the blind trust a few supporters show in Mourinho is frightening.

True. Same as pure hate few supporters have for him.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Played a blinder today, but this situation is win/win for Jose. If Martial comes back on fire then Jose is proven right, if he comes back and is still underperforming then jose is proven right. The reluctance of some to criticise Jose is very similar to the dippers with Klopp and Benitez.

Exactly the same situation with Mkhitaryan. It's win/win or lose/lose depending on your bias. If he comes back on fire then think of all the extra points we'd have now if he hadn't been unfairly frozen out? If he underperforms then it's Mourinho's fault for ruining such a talented player. Take your pick, basically.

 

[Dante]

IMHO, United's two most fluent attacking displays were against Sunderland and this last game against Watford. In both instances, the most telling difference was the way Zlatan dropped deep and drifted out to the wings. I reckon that really helps his wingers. I don't think it's a coincidence that Mata and Martial both scored. I hope it continues. It's the only way to get the most out of the types of attackers we have. Mata, in particular, had a field day in terms of finding space. Martial doesn't have the same instincts, but his pace should open up the channels.

 

[Grunge]

I was hoping to read a bit about his game today but of course only thing I can see is crying about weather he should have played before and Mourinho criticism.

I know, it's been quite silly in here over the last few days!

My take on Martial's game today is this; 1st half he really only had possession of the ball a handful of times before the goal. As good a player as he is (& will be I think) he's no Ryan Giggs yet. His instincts cause him to drift inside too much imo. This may be why Jose keeps trying Rashford on the left as he tends to stay wider longer?

Did have a couple of good runs but also a couple where he ran out of ideas. One great dummy that could've led to a goal and one he made a right mess of. Also had a fresh-air shot when again he should've done better.

Sent in the ball that Ibra missed & Mata finished with aplomb but we should probably have been up a goal or two by then, as Ibra missed a couple as did Mkhi and Herrera (although his was tough).

Martial did drift back to help out the defense a little in this game, but in fairness there wasn't much defending needed on his side of the park today.

He had another good cut-back before the end of the half including one very good one that Herrera really should have put away & another into space but no United player saw the chance and it ran harmlessly across the box.

He ended the half with a great run from halfway all the way into their box with only the CB to beat but zigged when he should zagged and the move was snuffed out.

Second half was more of the same; He started well getting open wide & running on goal only to pull his effort wife of the far post. If 'm sounding a bit critical it's because his angle for a shot with his left foot was poor while the square ball to Mata on the 6 yard box would've been a tap-in.

That said he finished his goal nicely when he got the chance & it will do his confidence no harm but again, his move to take the pass from Ibra was an inside rather than outside run, which almost got away from him as a result.

His last meaningful contribution was shortly after the goal when he tackled back really well and drove forward making a good pass inside. For the next 20 minutes or so barley got a touch looked a little tiredd? And was replaced by Rashford who fared only slightly better in the 10 minutes he saw on the park.

Best LW option we have but its a learning curve for him. I think he has to stay wider longer to make space & pull their RB out from the middle to give Ibra more room.

 

[Janson]

I mentioned about Tevez's case because of many similarities related to Martial's situation now. Both already showed how talented they were here, both have problems because of their representatives, both confusedly lost their place to replacements having worse form than them Berbatov + Lingard/Rashford (as LW not ST).

Also that highlight is enough for me, a fault is a fault. The job of great managers has that part seeing something special in young talented players which not anybody can see. Jose used to drop a super name Kaka for new face 21 years old Oezil just coming from the average club Bremen you know, so when needed Mou could possibly go with young talents, gave these players a starting role for whole first season. In De Bruyne's case, it's simply that Mou couldnt see his potential or he ranked Oscar's quality above De Bruyne and decided not to take risk using him regularly. Mou chose wrong approach, played it hard against De Bruyne instead of using a tender approach like he did with Oezil and he missed it, that's it

Of course there are similarities between their dilemmas but that isn't evidence of anything regarding this case, just speculation. How can we know if this treatment is good or bad for Martial? For all we know it could be Mourinho's treatment that has helped him come good lately. I'm not stating that's a fact, we can speculate all we want but we won't know how Martial actually feels about the situation until he leaves the club. For now I choose to trust Mourinhos judgement until proven wrong.

Of course he can go with young talents, you don't have too look further than Rashford to see that. Not every manager looks for the same traits in players, obviously he saw something in Rashford that Martial doesn't have, or rather didn't have.

Mourinho has made mistakes in the past in this area but if you take into acount what he acheived in his career, you can safely say that all the good decisions he has made enormously outweighs the bad.

 

[Janson]

Yes and that's always been the case with young players. The alternative is you just don't bother with them. Which sounds really boring.

Boring or not, at this level, the pressure for instant succes is huge on managers. If you want to be succesfull, you have to go with your best players/players that will work hard for you at any given time.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Played a blinder today, but this situation is win/win for Jose. If Martial comes back on fire then Jose is proven right, if he comes back and is still under performing then Jose is proven right. The reluctance of some to criticise Jose is very similar to the dippers with Klopp and Benitez.

I think it is more win/lose. The first part of what you say is right in that if he reacts like Mkhi has done Jose will look great. However, Martial is a player with a ton of potential and if he left and performed somewhere else Jose would look a bit stupid - think KDB.

Some of the dippers had started to see sense until they beat Spurs...

 

[Janson]

IMHO, United's two most fluent attacking displays were against Sunderland and this last game against Watford. In both instances, the most telling difference was the way Zlatan dropped deep and drifted out to the wings. I reckon that really helps his wingers. I don't think it's a coincidence that Mata and Martial both scored. I hope it continues. It's the only way to get the most out of the types of attackers we have. Mata, in particular, had a field day in terms of finding space. Martial doesn't have the same instincts, but his pace should open up the channels.

I agree, hence Mourinho's comments about giving Zlatan more freedom. I think we were pretty fluent in the home game vs Stoke as well, where we played with a similar setup as yesterday. Basically the same formation only with Rashford and Lingard instead of Martial and Mikhi. And no Fellaini or Carrick.

 

[Janson]

Exactly the same situation with Mkhitaryan. It's win/win or lose/lose depending on your bias. If he comes back on fire then think of all the extra points we'd have now if he hadn't been unfairly frozen out? If he underperforms then it's Mourinho's fault for ruining such a talented player. Take your pick, basically.

That's basically why this discussion never ends.

 

[lonelyred]

True. Same as pure hate few supporters have for him.

Badges should always be on the right side of the shirt, so there's no dilemma whether a player's tapping his heart or the club badge.

 

[Acole9]

Pleased for him, hopefully this performance will help him push on now.

 

[3KDré]

Badges should always be on the right side of the shirt, so there's no dilemma whether a player's tapping his heart or the club badge.

Well your heart isn't on the left side of your body anyway. It's in the middle but slightly lopsided because there are bigger muscles on the left than that right side of the heart.

 

[RedDevilUnited369]

Next goal he scores, we have pay up another £8.5 mil to Monaco

 

[ash_86]

Next goal he scores, we have pay up another £8.5 mil to Monaco

Worth every penny

 

[Smores]

Am i the only one who thinks his absence has made people rate him even higher than when he was playing?

Its a bit much to be honest, lad still has plenty to prove and you'd think he was having a Ronaldo breakthrough season the way people talk.

 

[AltiUn]

Am i the only one who thinks his absence has made people rate him even higher than when he was playing?

Its a bit much to be honest, lad still has plenty to prove and you'd think he was having a Ronaldo breakthrough season the way people talk.

Maybe a little, worth remembering he was very good last season, Golden boy good, I think more it's just he's our best option on the wing and it's frustrating not to see him played.

 

[AgentP]

He needs to really improve his off the ball runs! He has shown that he is a good finisher. But he hardly gets into good scoring positions from the wing compared to players like Mata and even Lingard. With Pogba and Mkhi in our team, we know that if a player makes a good run, more often than not, either of the two will find them.

 

[SteveW]

Am i the only one who thinks his absence has made people rate him even higher than when he was playing?

Its a bit much to be honest, lad still has plenty to prove and you'd think he was having a Ronaldo breakthrough season the way people talk.

Who's talking like that? weird comment

 

[Santoryo]

He's actually gotten underrated from being constantly dropped this season. Given he hasn't played much this campaign, some people are starting to think he's not that good.

All of a sudden people claiming there are hundreds of talents like Martial out there and plenty more unbelievable claims.

 

[snk123]

Its a bit much to be honest, lad still has plenty to prove and you'd think he was having a Ronaldo breakthrough season the way people talk.

He already had that last year.

 

[Janson]

@Dobbs Maybe my memory fails me but when have I said l'm strongly in favor for Martial to be dropped. I said he had a great game and am hoping we finally, potentially could have the devastating trio of Martial/Zlatan/Mikhi we thought we would at the start of the season.