Well I'm glad that I've had an insight into the entirely logical world of the half-time substitution. It's scarcity would suggest you don't quite have the hotline into football's inner sanctum that you've alluded to but you've made your points and we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Well I'm glad that I've had an insight into the entirely logical world of the half-time substitution. It's scarcity would suggest you don't quite have the hotline into football's inner sanctum that you've alluded to but you've made your points and we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
He was spectacularly bad. Threw the ball away literally every time he got it.
Don't understand why we can't admit it. He's an amazingly talented player who we're lucky to have. And today he was atrocious and by far the worst player on the pitch. Glad he got that game out of the way at the Euros rather than in the red shirt.
It's not that scarce at all mate, and as I mentioned earlier, Mourinho is a big fan of it so get used to it.
If a player has a very poor first half and you've got players like Pogba or Griezmann on the bench, of course you make the substitution.
Looked like Nani on his worst day today. Hopefully it was just a blip....
Hard to complain about him getting subbed (he was very poor), but I do feel he was slightly hard done by. Surely those two sentiments aren't mutually exclusive?
Off the top of my head by the way this season @Eckers99
Valencia v Wolfburg.
Mata v Everton.
Darmian v Southampton
Darmian v Arsenal? Not certain of that one but surely he was.
John Terry quite famously this season by Mourinho, can't remember the opposition.
Ramires subbed for Matic (who then did get humiliated with being sub subbed
)Benteke v Norwich City is another I remember.
It happens alot when players have a poor first half. As I say, with Mourinho especially, he loves it and Özil often ended up on the end of it:
"Similarly, if we talk about league games, the German player has been subbed off 9 times (3 of them at half-time) of the 13 games he has played in."
Oh yeah... and Di Maria v Sunderland too last season is one that sticks out.
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Or for tactical adjustments, which was the case here.
feck sake. I didn't watch the match but it's not good hearing Tony played shit.
Most often tactical adjustments as they are easier to make at half time.
So you can think of 4 occasions out of, what, 60 games that someone was subbed at half time in United games last season - 1 in every 15 games - and you wouldn't describe that as scarce? And 2 of them were Darmian having genuine, white-knuckle, cover your eyes, shockers.
Anyway, we're disappearing down a rabbit hole with this one - I thought Martial was one of many poor performers in a disjointed looking France side (partly because of Deschamps original line up, partly because he was one of many who didn't do enough), you think he deserved to go and was man enough to take it.
Not having it, but fair enough!
Poor performance, could have easily been given another 15 minutes second half but in a team with an attack as strong as France there's no reason to leave him on. He's a top class player and already close to world class in my opinion but all players have bad days at the office and he's more than good enough to bounce back with a goal next game and get right back in the team. That's the beauty of football...you just never know...
The knee jerk reactions at times on here tho can actually go to hell.
The knee jerk reactions at times on here tho can actually go to hell.
Off the top of my head to be fair, reckon there's a tonne more throughout the league.
As mentioned by another poster above, subbing at half time makes tactical changes (like tonight), much easier. Happens loads, weirdly enough I don't remember every sub we make
Off the top of my head to be fair, reckon there's a tonne more throughout the league.
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As mentioned by another poster above, subbing at half time makes tactical changes (like tonight), much easier. Happens loads, weirdly enough I don't remember every sub we make
Must try harder
He was woeful. But he is fecking 20.
I think people expect unrealistic amount of consistency because he's our best player.
At his age, a lot of Man Utd fans wanted Ronaldo sold for example.
You guys need to relax. He had a bad game and he will have many more.
I think people expect unrealistic amount of consistency because he's our best player.
At his age, a lot of Man Utd fans wanted Ronaldo sold for example.
You guys need to relax. He had a bad game and he will have many more.
I know every half-time substitution since William Prunier V Spurs in 1996 but refuse to name any of them as they'd undermine the point I'm trying to make!Reckon I named 4 more than you could, so RAB 4 - 0 @Eckers99
I wonder whether Martial is a little jaded physically after last season. LVG played him into the ground - 4663 minutes is an insane number for a 19/20 year old player. For comparison, Coman played 2476.
I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world for United fans if he didn't play much the remainder of the tournament.
I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world for United fans if he didn't play much the remainder of the tournament.
It wouldn't. I mentioned it before, but I saw somewhere that no footballer played more matches than Martial the past season.
No need to go too hard on him. Griezmann and Pogba were just as bad, if not worse, in the first game and they are two of the most sought after players in the world. He's only 20 and even the best have off days.
Doubt it is true. Suarez or Neymar im sure have played more minutes. Those guys barely got rotated at Barcelona this year and Barcelona as a team played more games than us.
Might have included international matches as well.
I get where your coming from he did have a bad game but like I said I thought the whole team was terrible in the first half, also I agree it's better that it's in a blue shirt rather than a red one.
Expected reaction from Caf after such performance.
Anyways, I think this experience should do him good for long term. Last season, He became our main attacking outlet right away and often had to carry the team. He did well, but our state is bad and that's not good for a young attacker's responsibility to have to shoulder the responsibility of the team in his first season. We basically made him to swim and that has some bad influence on his development. He still have so much to learn which IMO, we failed to assist him. Today game shows that when he is to take a lesser role to Payet, and to be a provider for a static forward in Giroud, he struggled. He has less freedom to move inside, both by Albania tight defense and the different tactic and movement by France team (Giroud just camps in the box, while as bad as Rooney was Rooney did move out to create space and link up).
Martial's crossing and passing is not up there to help him out. His off ball movement is still dull at time. Sided with Evra who rarely put in a good cross & liable at time caught up high up field also didn't help. As bad as Rojo, Rojo keeps width well, put useless/inaccurate cross (good technique to make stretching cross/ stretch the defense line a bit) that helped freeing up some room for Martial...
With that in mind, this helps keeping him grounded to further development. He had a very good season, but still a long way to be a top player. He should realize the needs of adding more dimension to his game, so he is not cornered the same way, in case the team needs to adjust tactic/ approach and can't afford him his preferred style.
Anyways, I think this experience should do him good for long term. Last season, He became our main attacking outlet right away and often had to carry the team. He did well, but our state is bad and that's not good for a young attacker's responsibility to have to shoulder the responsibility of the team in his first season. We basically made him to swim and that has some bad influence on his development. He still have so much to learn which IMO, we failed to assist him. Today game shows that when he is to take a lesser role to Payet, and to be a provider for a static forward in Giroud, he struggled. He has less freedom to move inside, both by Albania tight defense and the different tactic and movement by France team (Giroud just camps in the box, while as bad as Rooney was Rooney did move out to create space and link up).
Martial's crossing and passing is not up there to help him out. His off ball movement is still dull at time. Sided with Evra who rarely put in a good cross & liable at time caught up high up field also didn't help. As bad as Rojo, Rojo keeps width well, put useless/inaccurate cross (good technique to make stretching cross/ stretch the defense line a bit) that helped freeing up some room for Martial...
With that in mind, this helps keeping him grounded to further development. He had a very good season, but still a long way to be a top player. He should realize the needs of adding more dimension to his game, so he is not cornered the same way, in case the team needs to adjust tactic/ approach and can't afford him his preferred style.
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Martial had a season where he was the only one capable of making something happen. He was a 19/20 year old in his first season in the league and at our club. Yet, he was the one responsible for running at people and creating chances. He did that for United, tried things every time he had the ball. This should never be the case. No player should have this kind of responsibility(assumed by himself or given by the manager).
I really hope this changes this season. I want a threat on our right and through the middle too. This is very important for Martial's balanced growth as a player.
Last night Martial, assumed a similar responsibility. Did not work very well for him, too big an occasion to try things out every single time. He had a bad half, and I was not surprised to see him taken off, but in the first 25 minutes of the second half, France were missing that player who could do what Martial was trying.
I am not too disheartened by Martial's game last night. I just hope he is the first attacking substitution France make in the remaining matches of this tournament. He deserves it.
I really hope this changes this season. I want a threat on our right and through the middle too. This is very important for Martial's balanced growth as a player.
Last night Martial, assumed a similar responsibility. Did not work very well for him, too big an occasion to try things out every single time. He had a bad half, and I was not surprised to see him taken off, but in the first 25 minutes of the second half, France were missing that player who could do what Martial was trying.
I am not too disheartened by Martial's game last night. I just hope he is the first attacking substitution France make in the remaining matches of this tournament. He deserves it.
He didn't have a good night but some overreactions from the caf. Still looks very much the unpolished gem that you'd expect at this age
Wanna swap?
I would like to see him gain even more confidence from this experience at the Euros, but as long as he's in form for us at the start of the season, I'm not that bothered. He's only 20. His international career is in its infancy right now. It's the next 4 tournaments that are his big ones.
With whom? Sandro or Munir?
Time, takes time. The thing I liked with him is that he kept at it even after failing a few times - never seemed entirely defeated. Albania did a nice job denying him space that he's used to in the Premiership and he looked to use his strength & speed to try and get past. His dribbling and decisionmaking will improve, hopefully Mou won't break him though
My previous post agreed with your first 2 paragraphs. However, I disagree on your assessment (3rd paragraph).
France created an early scoring chance in the second half from a cross on their left wing. Then few more followed up chances from left wing within first 25 minutes IIRC. Martial was out of sync with the team rhythm in the first half. He seems to play his own game, and trying too hard on his own with no end product. Martial was supposed to play second fiddle to Payet in creativity yesterday, and second fiddle/feeder to Giroud (who is static and solely camped in center). This is different from Martial role for United, where Martial is the main outlet. Our #10, even Rooney as #9 and Rashford were supposed to make movement to create space for Martial. Martial was not afforded the same privilege last night and his weakness in crossing, passing showed.
Agree with your conclusion, too.
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He has a great mentality. In fact, this was the first time I thought he might be feeling a bit of tension. All season, he's dealt with the pressure of his price tag and responsibility of being our main attacker, at the age of 20, wonderfully. Usually, he seems like one of those "in the zone" players, who are unfazed by little. I like players of that mould. Who just go on and do their talking on the pitch and dont get involved in confrontations or drama.
My only worry with him, at this stage in his career, is him being overly harsh on himself. I remember he posted about his performance being disappointing once during the season, so I hope he doesn't let this affect him throughout the tournament. I could see him being very disappointed in himself for blowing what he would see as a big chance. Luckily, that didn't happen with us and he just got on with proving himself further.
He's played a silly amount of games for someone so young adjusting to a physically demanding league. I'd rather he didn't start another game and get a nice rest before the start of the season.
Definitely seems mature for his age - His teammates encouraging him after some bad decisions also lends some support to the theory that he's too hard on himself.
Not sure why so many have unrealistic expectations, he's a developing player not the finished article
Yeah, I think you are talking about the chance that Pogba volleyed over, correct? While watching the match I was able to convince my self that it was not related to the Martial substitution, I am not sure what the logic was, can't recall. Could be due to my Red-tinted Martial loving glasses. :-p.
Cheers.
He is wank. Please do not start him again in this tournament. I think they should remove him from the squad and send him on an early vacation.
Nah, that's it. Career is over mate.
Should come off the bench from now on.
I am still new here so I am not sure what constitutes the caf population.However, something seems wrong of late. Are all these negative reviews from united supporters or are some of them from liverpool and city supporters who have waited all season for a chance to attack this brilliant player.
Really? After one bad game? Some of you are just on a wind up. He had one bad half. United supportes should really know not to read too much from one or two games by now.
For non united supporters taking the piss at Martial, lets be fair then, if we are to judge players on how many bad international games they have had then Ronaldo should pack up and take up modelling for good, Kane should also drop football and advertise horse related products and sterling should probably try do a kim kardashian, where he is paid a lot to sit on his big butt and do nothing(or maybe he is already doing that) Emre can,Coutinho and Firminho should all drop football and take up porn.
Really? After one bad game? Some of you are just on a wind up. He had one bad half. United supportes should really know not to read too much from one or two games by now.
For non united supporters taking the piss at Martial, lets be fair then, if we are to judge players on how many bad international games they have had then Ronaldo should pack up and take up modelling for good, Kane should also drop football and advertise horse related products and sterling should probably try do a kim kardashian, where he is paid a lot to sit on his big butt and do nothing(or maybe he is already doing that) Emre can,Coutinho and Firminho should all drop football and take up porn.
Bloody hell, the kid has a relatively poor 45 minutes in a team that isn't clicking particularly well and suddenly for many it's a crisis....
He's so young, he'll have plenty of bad games for United as well, which is why Jose will bring someone in to ease the pressure and relax his development.
He's so young, he'll have plenty of bad games for United as well, which is why Jose will bring someone in to ease the pressure and relax his development.
Martial had a bad game but the whole French performance was pretty poor, the only player who looked useful from start to finish was, once again, Payet. It was such a dull game to watch.
Pogba came on for Martial and did nothing but strut around in the second half. Griezmann came on and just seemed to walk about until he scored. Neither dramatically changed the level of the French performance.
Overall, I think it's harsh to lambast Martial, and Deschamps should have perhaps given him another 15/20 mins to try and redeem himself before hooking him. France really need to pull themselves together, they can't rely on Payet to win the whole competition for them.
Pogba came on for Martial and did nothing but strut around in the second half. Griezmann came on and just seemed to walk about until he scored. Neither dramatically changed the level of the French performance.
Overall, I think it's harsh to lambast Martial, and Deschamps should have perhaps given him another 15/20 mins to try and redeem himself before hooking him. France really need to pull themselves together, they can't rely on Payet to win the whole competition for them.
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