Angry Barcelonians shoot foreigners...

maniak said:
In some traditional neighborhoods of Lisbon, tourism has completely destroyed the local communities. Young people can't afford the rents, laws have made it easier for landlords to evict older people, it's a shitshow. Homelessness has increased over 20% in Lisbon in the last year, higher among over 50s. The number of people under 35 going back to their parents home also increased over 30% in the last year alone.

I was talking to a dutch woman a few weeks ago who had spent time in one of these neighborhoods about 10 years ago and she loved it. No cars, small green areas and playgrounds, kids playing footie in the streets, old men playing chess in parks, old ladies gossiping and knitting near the fountains. These were really nice places.

She loved it so much she decided to buy a house there. Now she lives in a street where there isn't a single portuguese living. No locals giving the streets some color, no kids playing, it's all little bars, tuk tuks driving around and all empty spaces have something to suck some money from foreigners. She hates it and is going to sell the house.

In Lisbon people tolerate tourists, many depend on them after all, but I always get a feeling that there's this resentment that at the end of the day tourists all over the place enjoying the city and the working people have to spend hours on transports to get to their homes in the outskirts or neighboring cities.

Sure, this discontent should be directed at politicians who allow this to happen, but tourists seem to be an easier target.
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A big part of this is the rise of Digital Nomads moving there, driving up house prices.

 
Anti foreigners was how it all started in Germany.
Jokes aside I'd be pissed too if influencers kept coming there to shit in their toilets and destroy their prices.
 
At some point the AI overlords are going to work out there's simply too many people. Half the internet seems to boil down to complaints of too many people.

Ideally local governments protect local people and keep tourism at a balance but short term economic concerns are always going to win. Then you've only really got so many alternative tourism locations that cover off cultural destination so controlling the supply will just lead to excessive prices.

Maybe the poor can holiday in Rwanda?
 
Smores said:
At some point the AI overlords are going to work out there's simply too many people. Half the internet seems to boil down to complaints of too many people.
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But the other half is complaining about low birthrates! I worry about the outcome of that AI solution :nervous:
 
Uncivilized behavior. Not going there anytime soon. Barcelona is nothing without tourism.
 
Travel is definitely too cheap and easy these days (even if we all benefit from it in various ways). It must be stopped.
 
So many European economies have become utterly beholden to tourism (Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc) and it's clearly reaching a tipping point.

I've been in Spain a few times over the last few years (cities and more rural areas) and it does seem like everything is focused towards tourism to the point where services focusing on local priorities appear to be dwindling. Its a tough balancing act, especially as corporations are going to focus on those with larger capacity to spend - tourists.
 
Smores said:
At some point the AI overlords are going to work out there's simply too many people. Half the internet seems to boil down to complaints of too many people.

Ideally local governments protect local people and keep tourism at a balance but short term economic concerns are always going to win. Then you've only really got so many alternative tourism locations that cover off cultural destination so controlling the supply will just lead to excessive prices.

Maybe the poor can holiday in Rwanda?
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This is what I'm struggling with when it comes to AirBnB. In an alternate reality where it never happened, we're relying on a much smaller pool of properties to go on holiday. So won't the hotels and guest houses just pump their prices higher and higher, restricting holidays abroad to the 1%ers? Has AirBnB democratised travel?

Or is this massive demand only there because there are so many more options of places to stay? Without AirBnB the hotels and guest houses would fill up and that would be that. No overcrowding. Problem solved.
 
It's all the same argument for me as immigration here in the UK. Create economies that rely on tourism/cheap immigrant labour with cheap movement of people at the cost of the local standard of living to make huge profits for the rich who then mass purchase properties or services as an investment to further milk the working class. Blame tourists/cheap immigrant labour instead of the forces that created the environment in the first place or rectify the issues.
 
Gambit said:
It's all the same argument for me as immigration here in the UK. Create economies that rely on tourism/cheap immigrant labour with cheap movement of people at the cost of the local standard of living to make huge profits for the rich who then mass purchase properties or services as an investment to further milk the working class. Blame tourists/cheap immigrant labour instead of the forces that created the environment in the first place or rectify the issues.
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What “forces” create an environment where the number of people visiting tourist destinations every year keeps getting higher and higher?
 
Maybe they should stop worrying about bloody tourists and concentrate on finishing the church.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What “forces” create an environment where the number of people visiting tourist destinations every year keeps getting higher and higher?
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The forces that hollowed out these places, removing what once made them real, organic communities, and then the forces driving forward the downward deregulatory spiral in search of increased revenue now that there isn't much else left. I'm not sure exactly who they are, but they must exist.
 
McGrathsipan said:
a bad economy is worse for the people!
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If people's salaries can't keep up with the cost of living, how are their lives better?

I have a perfect example in my family. I have a cousin who has been a tourist guide for almost 20 years. When she started she lived about 20 min from work and had a decent life, making ends meet and able to afford an yearly holiday abroad. Now she does the exact same thing, except she had to move because her old flat has a rent higher than her current salary. So she does the same thing, inflation means her purchase power went down (holidays abroad are once every 3 years or so) and she wastes about 4 hours a day commuting.

The company and hotel she works for are doing great though.
 
maniak said:
If people's salaries can't keep up with the cost of living, how are their lives better?

I have a perfect example in my family. I have a cousin who has been a tourist guide for almost 20 years. When she started she lived about 20 min from work and had a decent life, making ends meet and able to afford an yearly holiday abroad. Now she does the exact same thing, except she had to move because her old flat has a rent higher than her current salary. So she does the same thing, inflation means her purchase power went down (holidays abroad are once every 3 years or so) and she wastes about 4 hours a day commuting.

The company and hotel she works for are doing great though.
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My comment is a bit of a generalization yeah but its a bit of a catch 22 isnt it.


I men your cousin - She has a job in tourism. She has made a living from Tourism for 20 years. What would she be doing if there was no tourism jobs?

The Hotels and Tour companies will charge more if they are levied - then tourism falls, then people that work in tourism lose jobs?

I dont know what the answer is
 
Sitting in restaurant in Europe now you could be in any city if you think about it - its all very samey in cities

Even further out - I was in Kuala Lumpur a while back - wnet to a fancy hotel , then into a shopping centre that was like Dundrum in Dublin - Obriens Sandwich shop and all of the chain stores.
We left and went home after 1 night instead of staying 3 more nights.
 
McGrathsipan said:
My comment is a bit of a generalization yeah but its a bit of a catch 22 isnt it.


I men your cousin - She has a job in tourism. She has made a living from Tourism for 20 years. What would she be doing if there was no tourism jobs?

The Hotels and Tour companies will charge more if they are levied - then tourism falls, then people that work in tourism lose jobs?

I dont know what the answer is
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No one is saying tourism shouldn't exist. But if tourism increases, the economy numbers get better, but the actual people living in the city are driven out and have less money at the end of the month, how is that economic growth better for them?
 
pierrethesnack said:
The forces that hollowed out these places, removing what once made them real, organic communities, and then the forces driving forward the downward deregulatory spiral in search of increased revenue now that there isn't much else left. I'm not sure exactly who they are, but they must exist.
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Those are all reasons why the tourist destinations are no longer nice places to live. Doesn't explain the constantly increasing numbers of people who want to visit them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Those are all reasons why the tourist destinations are no longer nice places to live. Doesn't explain the constantly increasing numbers of people who want to visit them.
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I'm just guessing, but could be because once much of the infrastucture of the place has been remade to cater to tourists, airlines and whatnot can bring in much larger quantities of people at a lower cost. Most people, in turn, are automatons when it comes to choosing holiday destinations and simply follow the tracks laid out ahead of them, understadably enough.
 
pierrethesnack said:
I'm just guessing, but could be because once much of the infrastucture of the place has been remade to cater to tourists, airlines and whatnot can bring in much larger quantities of people at a lower cost.
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That is one part of the equation, but I would argue that a more important reason is the internet (and possibly influencers).

20 years ago people looked at you like you were Indiana Jones if you travelled to a country outside of Europe where they don't speak English. The hurdle of being marginally independent and having to do some actually planning in advance was too much to deal with for some, so they went with the safest possible options. But now you can just wing it by using your phone. The biggest hurdle is finding a good eSIM or pocket wifi.

Now that even some exciting places that used to be reserved for adventurers or more independent travellers have become a viable option, so too has the hunger for travel in general. People prioritise it a lot more and are more flexible because it's so easy. The result is that previously rare destinations suddenly see a good amount tourists. Previously semi-rare destinations are now regular tourist destinations. Previously common destinations like Barcelona? Well they don't stand a chance.
 
Scandi Red said:
That is one part of the equation, but I would argue that a more important reason is the internet (and possibly influencers).

20 years ago people looked at you like you were Indiana Jones if you travelled to a country outside of Europe where they don't speak English. The hurdle of being marginally independent and having to do some actually planning in advance was too much to deal with for some, so they went with the safest possible options. But now you can just wing it by using your phone. The biggest hurdle is finding a good eSIM or pocket wifi.

Now that even some exciting places that used to be reserved for adventurers or more independent travellers have become a viable option, so too has the hunger for travel in general. People prioritise it a lot more and are more flexible because it's so easy. The result is that previously rare destinations suddenly see a good amount tourists. Previously semi-rare destinations are now regular tourist destinations. Previously common destinations like Barcelona? Well they don't stand a chance.
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You're right, what you're describing here is probably even more important.

Made me think of The Beach (2000). Great film, for anyone who hasn't seen it.
 
jderbyshire said:
A big part of this is the rise of Digital Nomads moving there, driving up house prices.

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At the end of the day, if you removed tourism, the available jobs and employment will shrink, so regardless if your rent drops, your income is likely to drop with it. I am NOT an economist but seems to make sense in my mind.
 
Murder on Zidanes Floor said:
At the end of the day, if you removed tourism, the available jobs and employment will shrink, so regardless if your rent drops, your income is likely to drop with it. I am NOT an economist but seems to make sense in my mind.
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The unemployment rate in portugal was the same 20 years ago. We've had increases in homelessness and people going back to their parent's house in the double digits for the last 3 years. It's an absolute disaster.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This is what I'm struggling with when it comes to AirBnB. In an alternate reality where it never happened, we're relying on a much smaller pool of properties to go on holiday. So won't the hotels and guest houses just pump their prices higher and higher, restricting holidays abroad to the 1%ers? Has AirBnB democratised travel?

Or is this massive demand only there because there are so many more options of places to stay? Without AirBnB the hotels and guest houses would fill up and that would be that. No overcrowding. Problem solved.
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I think the issue is that these cheap options, both in lodging and tickets, allow for a large amount of travel. I am not a 1%er but I could afford a nice hotel once a year. What I cannot do is afford a nice hotel 5-6 times a year. This kind of 'low cost travel' can breed low cost tourists that tend to be the most annoying to locals.
 
Never had problems in Barcelona other than people trying to pickpocket or sell us drugs, but there was graffiti around the city 6/7 years ago telling tourists to go home
 
Scandi Red said:
That is one part of the equation, but I would argue that a more important reason is the internet (and possibly influencers).

20 years ago people looked at you like you were Indiana Jones if you travelled to a country outside of Europe where they don't speak English. The hurdle of being marginally independent and having to do some actually planning in advance was too much to deal with for some, so they went with the safest possible options. But now you can just wing it by using your phone. The biggest hurdle is finding a good eSIM or pocket wifi.

Now that even some exciting places that used to be reserved for adventurers or more independent travellers have become a viable option, so too has the hunger for travel in general. People prioritise it a lot more and are more flexible because it's so easy. The result is that previously rare destinations suddenly see a good amount tourists. Previously semi-rare destinations are now regular tourist destinations. Previously common destinations like Barcelona? Well they don't stand a chance.
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That explains why previously relatively inaccessible destinations are getting overrun but not why places that have always been easy to get to are seeing an explosion in numbers.

It can only be down to one of two factors. It costs less to travel. People are willing/able to spend more money on travel. Actually, three factors. More people as well. Population increases.

I’m not even sure costs have been dropping recently. It feels as though your average short haul flight is more expensive now than it was ten years ago. I’ve no stats to back this up, mind you.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That explains why previously relatively inaccessible destinations are getting overrun but not why places that have always been easy to get to are seeing an explosion in numbers.

It can only be down to one of two things. It costs less to travel. People are willing to spend more money on travel. Actually, three things. More people as well.

I’m not even sure costs have been dropping recently. It feels as though your average short haul flight is more expensive now than it was ten years ago. I’ve no stats to back this up, mind you.
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I think someone mentioned before but post-covid people definitely have shifted in terms of wanting to experience things and the world more. Social media culture and Instagram has probably also created a culture of FOMO in visiting places.

Aside from that, we like to try and have 'staycations' but the price isn't great. For us to visit Berwick for a weekend or week from London using public transport, it can be the same price or cheaper to go visit a European city, and we'd probably spend less on food and drink in said European city too.
 
Of course tourism is good for these places, but it becomes too much - and I reckon it has reached that point for lots of cities and countries, not just Barcelona. I was in Rome last February and it was also quite full of tourists, I can only imagine how bad it gets in the summer months. It makes me quite glad that where I currently live (Switzerland) is too expensive for tourism on this scale.
 
BD said:
Of course tourism is good for these places, but it becomes too much - and I reckon it has reached that point for lots of cities and countries, not just Barcelona. I was in Rome last February and it was also quite full of tourists, I can only imagine how bad it gets in the summer months. It makes me quite glad that where I currently live (Switzerland) is too expensive for tourism on this scale.
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Switzerland: the affluent and like minded country of the world
 
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