It's not like Germans or the Dutch don't act a twat abroad
Angry Barcelonians shoot foreigners...
- Thread starter Scandi Red
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Airbnb and the tourist flats are to blame. Petty protests. In any case, you have to put yourself in the shoes of those who live in the centre of Lloret de Mar/Salou and have to bear drunks from june to October
Why don't they just go to their second homes?
Yes, maybe they should, and get drunk in someone else's city.I assume the hostile attitude is designed to make tourists not want to go there. Which... I mean, result?
We've got an increasing tourism problem in some places in Norway too, though it's more tourists fecking up nature (sometimes just by existing in such large numbers). I don't think we've quite gotten to the point where we start harassing tourists, but tourist taxes are probably coming. Tourism brings with it lots of wealth, but it can also bring with it lots of issues.
In some traditional neighborhoods of Lisbon, tourism has completely destroyed the local communities. Young people can't afford the rents, laws have made it easier for landlords to evict older people, it's a shitshow. Homelessness has increased over 20% in Lisbon in the last year, higher among over 50s. The number of people under 35 going back to their parents home also increased over 30% in the last year alone.
I was talking to a dutch woman a few weeks ago who had spent time in one of these neighborhoods about 10 years ago and she loved it. No cars, small green areas and playgrounds, kids playing footie in the streets, old men playing chess in parks, old ladies gossiping and knitting near the fountains. These were really nice places.
She loved it so much she decided to buy a house there. Now she lives in a street where there isn't a single portuguese living. No locals giving the streets some color, no kids playing, it's all little bars, tuk tuks driving around and all empty spaces have something to suck some money from foreigners. She hates it and is going to sell the house.
In Lisbon people tolerate tourists, many depend on them after all, but I always get a feeling that there's this resentment that at the end of the day tourists all over the place enjoying the city and the working people have to spend hours on transports to get to their homes in the outskirts or neighboring cities.
Sure, this discontent should be directed at politicians who allow this to happen, but tourists seem to be an easier target.
I was talking to a dutch woman a few weeks ago who had spent time in one of these neighborhoods about 10 years ago and she loved it. No cars, small green areas and playgrounds, kids playing footie in the streets, old men playing chess in parks, old ladies gossiping and knitting near the fountains. These were really nice places.
She loved it so much she decided to buy a house there. Now she lives in a street where there isn't a single portuguese living. No locals giving the streets some color, no kids playing, it's all little bars, tuk tuks driving around and all empty spaces have something to suck some money from foreigners. She hates it and is going to sell the house.
In Lisbon people tolerate tourists, many depend on them after all, but I always get a feeling that there's this resentment that at the end of the day tourists all over the place enjoying the city and the working people have to spend hours on transports to get to their homes in the outskirts or neighboring cities.
Sure, this discontent should be directed at politicians who allow this to happen, but tourists seem to be an easier target.
> Become best place in Europe for sex and drugs
Are Barcelonians really this anti-tourist?
Amsterdam is trying to curb tourism but they don't seem anti-tourist unless you're going for sex, drugs and drink.
> Get mad when people come to your city for sex and drugs
This seems like a cutting your nose off to spite your face problem. I'm sure a lot of business owners and workers who do well as a result of tourism wouldn't want tourists to be put off.
There are other approaches that can be taken, discourage overconsumption, raise tourists taxes, limit entry to overpopulated sights, use volunteers to help police tourists, regulate Air BnBs more strictly, promote other sights or places in the city/region etc.
I am not an expert so It is difficult for me to lay out a whole torusit plan. But one of the main problems is gentrification and that has to be tackled by reducing the overnight options like hotel/hostel rooms and specially airbnb options and who can purchase a condo/house for just a few weeks a year. Spaniards are competing for housing, buying or purchasing with corporations with people that makes 2 to 4 time more than the average salary depending on the european country. And the people that comes are not interested in the day by day neighbourhood like what means gentrification
Reduce the overnight options and the competition will push the prices high for the few that can come. That would reduce the gentrification and the people that will come willspend much more causing less problems. reduce it 50% and you might make 25% less but you probably will spend 25% less with impacts like cleaning, policing, and other public services. And local people will be less impacted with housing.
A bit is tourism is good, balanced tourism is great. Too much tourism (as everything that is too much), is negative. Not only for the locals, but for the tourism itself. I would never recommend to any of my friends to go to Barcelona in July-August. Is too hot, too expensive and is ridiculously too packed
My impression is that the English stand out: even at the Euros people here happily cheer on Holland, their former/supposed rivals, while they seem quite eager to see the English fans leave. But this is all anecdotal and therefore a moot point, isn't it?
The actual reason why I brought this up is of course the Schengen Area. Here's an article, in case you're not familiar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
Tourism started to explode after the olympics in 1992. 20 years ago was bad but now you will just kill yourself if you though in 2004 was bad
Correct me if I'm wrong but won't some of these cities struggle if there's no tourism? Isn't it helping local shops restaurants etc stay open?
Absolutely. The problem, as I said in previous posts is the tourist model that the council pursued that was the quick buck and that means as many possible. The massive tourism model is he consequence, not the cause but people are dumb and attacks the visible effect. Like when we blame immigrants for many problems that are not true
As I said previously, the tourist, that are after all people like me, they are looking for the best deal on heir threshold of enjoyment. But my reaction is more for people that say is a shithole....maybe they should understand why is a shithole and who is causing to make barcelona a shithole, themselves. Because barcelona was not a shithole and it was its beauty and the common life in the neighbourhoods that made it attractive. Tourism, who these people that call barcelona a shithole are part of it, contributed on this shitholery where starbucks, burgerkings and other nauseabund big brands with low quality products, substituted the day by day shops, the open markets like la boqueria are not markets anymore but a juice on the go drinks and souvenir food products that the neigbourhoods can't afford day by day and you have tourists that wants to go all out (understandable, is your vacations) drinking, puking, being loud, breaking things
And this tourists are blaming that is to pack with other tourists so they are pissed at themselves, at other tourists and the locals that they don't like them. The charm is gone, and barcelona is effectively a shithole, but when someone foreigner says that is a shithole, I have the right to tell them that they are the piece of shit that made barcelona the shithole
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Good for the economy, bad for the people.
Barcelona is the most or historically had been the most industrialized area of Spain, so no, the city and the area was doing just fine before the 2000s. Barcelona is the most dense big city in europe (I believe) adding 28 million people a year in a city of 1.7 millions is not sustainable. Of course tourism is a big influx of money for the city, but is a big expenditure also and no one is saying to cut tourism at 0 but it definitely needs a more sustainable model
And certainly being a waiter making 600-1000 euros a month with shity schedules is not the dream for any worker
The only reason the tourist areas are busy is because the Spanish are so fecking slow at serving them
You're right, the 4% of tourists from the UK are what really tips the residents over.
Yeah but none of that is the tourists fault. I'm sure people from Barcelona go on vacations and contribute the same to other cities. I'd like to see a tourists from Barcelona in NY. I'll drench them. A lot of big cities have that issue and you don't see everyone being mean to tourists. It's just hard working people trying to enjoy some free time.
I assume she saw the irony to some extent of the effects of her own actions on clearing the Portuguese out of the area?
Like you and 4bars have said, it's a really awful issue. Airbnb definitely makes the situation much worse, especially in terms of the effects it has on the locals but the sheer number of tourists regardless is insane.
I'm not really sure what the overall solution is. It feels like restricting airbnb in some way is definitely part of it, though I also feel like this will also price out a lot of people and families especially tend to find it a lot cheaper and easier to rent a whole airbnb.
Fundamentally though the rights of the local residents should be the priority.
Looks like it's a bit more than 4%, but regardless, they want to take back control they'll have to start somewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Spain
I thought we were talking about Barcelona only? It is in the title.
Then again, I forgot you're a troll, so carry on.
As I said, already in multiple times already here, the problem is the tourist model that the city council allows (because I am not certain that they even have a model). The tourists are the consequence and the stupid people in barcelona attacks the consequences instead of their city council. Again, with the same example when people attacks immigrants for problems that the politicians causes and points fingers to others.
My reaction is for people that had been tourists in barcelona that feels the right to say is a shithole, then I feel with the right to call them that they are the piece of shit that confribuited to make barcelona the tourist trap shithole that is today
And that is the main thing. Everybody should have the right to visit everywhere. But locals have priority and if the ones that keeps the money are always the same, in this case, people that can afford to buy 1, 2, 3 or more condos to make a airbnb company while regular people can't afford rent we are confronting people getting price out for vacations vs locals getting priced out to have a decent place to live
And the model can be better. last year barcelona had less tourists but the money they spent was 14% more. So less pressure for the city, less cost for the city and more money for the city
The key as always, is in the balance
The key as always, is in the balance
The suggestion to restrict visas to British tourists is hilarious.
1) Britain does not require a visa for anyone visiting the Schengen area.
2) from 2025 they will need a ETIAS which takes 5 minutes to apply and takes minutes to be approved because all it does is digitally process your passport and as long as your background is clean you will automatically get approved.
1) Britain does not require a visa for anyone visiting the Schengen area.
2) from 2025 they will need a ETIAS which takes 5 minutes to apply and takes minutes to be approved because all it does is digitally process your passport and as long as your background is clean you will automatically get approved.
Ah, yeah us Xers think caring about anything is lame, worse to complain about Android users than to have a 2000 Nokia.
And I don't understand why only Brittish. And visa restrictions are stupid, other small areas can benefit of tourism. Every city is responsible of the tourist model that they want and that is not allowing permits for more hotels, hostels and restrict tourist licenses for condos.
at pick summer is 150,000 people a day
I don't think she did, she seemed to have a "I was here early and it was nice, it's these new people who are ruining it" attitude.
Some of the stats about the tourism explosion are insane. The ombudsman in Greece just produced a report on the future of tourism in Greece with some mind boggling figures in it.
If I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot tourists…
Ah yes whether it's tourists, economic migrants or retiring migrants, we were always the first and it's always others who come after who've ruined things!
I was going to suggest it's partly a sad consequence of the fact that southern Europe is so much nicer than Northern Europe but a quick look at Portuguese tourism statistics seems to show while there are large numbers from UK, Ireland, Germany and Netherlands, there's also huge numbers from USA, Brazil, Italy and surprisingly Spain.
Must be quite depressing as a resident.
Ia the weather and that the northerns has much more economic capabilities
USA is top 1 as tourist in Spain. They are almost 400 million after all. But europeans, by proximity and easy path with visas/currency are top 1 by far if you join uk, france, germany and netherlands
For some people, it is cheaper to spend 1 month vacations in Spain depending on destination than its own country in their normal lives
That is insane
Come to mind some thailand areas also. Never felt the appeal of this massive tourism spots. Specially when there are many alternatives
Exactly. Many of the water pistol protesters will be taking foreign holidays somewhere, and then they become the problem in someone else's country. The problem is the city's authorities. Ban all AirBnBs for a start - but no, they won't do that because they actually want the tourist income.
It's like those bloody Stop Oil protesters. They cause massive inconvenience to Joe Bloggs, who has no influence whatsoever on government policies relating to climate change.
We even have problems here, in our tiny village. For two or three months the population doubles, you can't park, the supermarket shelves are half-empty, the couple of restaurants we have are busy - but we put up with it because it brings money to local businesses. If you live in a pretty or interesting place, people want to come there.
Beautiful city
but the Old Town is seriously overcrowded (I've also been part of the problem). Not as bad as in Dubrovnik, but still.I get the point with AirBnB and all-inclusive resorts/cruise tourism though, they barely give anything back to the community as a compensation for invading. Speaking from a personal experience Western part of Norway and especially Lofoten is affected a lot by overcrowding tourism during the summer months but not as bad the Med destinations.
Everyone is welcome here, bar those pesky German RV tourists that clog up the challenging roads and bring everything they need from Germany.
With AirBnB it’s a real chicken and egg thing. Is it the reason you have huge numbers of people staying at tourist hot spots, or a response to the demand for places to stay. If not AirBnB would other, similar, services have popped up anyway?
This is, obviously, separate to the specifics of how it is run.
This is, obviously, separate to the specifics of how it is run.
a bad economy is worse for the people!
Apparently being pretty disgustingly mistreated in a place because of your nationality and pointing out that the place is an unwelcoming shitehole makes you a piece of shit. Okay mate.