[Kostov]

I have said repeatedly on this thread that Gomes will get time if and when Ole and the coaching staff feel that he is ready. It is the same for Garner as well. The contract issues are not the reason because Chong, who also has not signed a contract, has already featured a bit too.

When will Ole and his coaching staff get their heads out of their bottoms and realize that Lingard and even Pereira offer feck all over Gomes even though he might not be ready at this moment of time, since you know, the kid barely ever gets a chance to play some football? While both these useless chaps get regular minutes week after week? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that do you?

Regarding Garner I can understand your point, and Matic compared to the other two senior jokers actually looks decent and able to do a solid job.

 

[pascell]

Didn't make it to the winter break camp.

United's travelling party

Goalkeepers: Nathan Bishop, Sergio Romero

Defenders: Aaron Wan-Bissaka, Diogo Dalot, Axel Tuanzebe, Eric Bailly, Timothy Fosu-Mensah, Harry Maguire, Phil Jones, Brandon Williams, Luke Shaw

Midfielders: Scott McTominay, Andreas Pereira, Jesse Lingard, James Garner, Fred

Forwards: Daniel James, Anthony Martial, Mason Greenwood, Tahith Chong



Even Chong gets to go. Angel must have burnt all his bridges by now.

Let's just calm down, no one knows what's going on. Not sure where you got this travelling party list from but it's wrong as Gomes is on most of the training photos today.

 

[Raven]

He's at the training camp. He's in a load of the photos.

 

[roonster09]

Didn't make it to the winter break camp.

He is part of the training camp.

 

[sglowrider]

Let's just calm down, no one knows what's going on. Not sure where you got this travelling party list from but it's wrong as Gomes is on most of the training photos today.

MEN

 

[gza the genius]

He was in Portugal according to his Instagram so I'm sure he just traveled separately and that's why he wasn't on the list. He very clearly is there now.

 

[0le]

When will Ole and his coaching staff get their heads out of their bottoms and realize that Lingard and even Pereira offer feck all over Gomes even though he might not be ready at this moment of time, since you know, the kid barely ever gets a chance to play some football? While both these useless chaps get regular minutes week after week? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that do you?

Regarding Garner I can understand your point, and Matic compared to the other two senior jokers actually looks decent and able to do a solid job.

Fergie never played a youngster unless he thought the player was ready or we were crippled with injuries and it was necessary. The only exception of note was that he was perhaps a little more generous with strikers - probably because a mistake by a striker is usually not costly.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Tough to stay, sign contract extension and trusting a manager who insist on playing a consistent senior player who always give rubbish performances ahead of you.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Tough to stay, sign contract extension and trusting a manager who insist on playing a consistent senior player who always give rubbish performances ahead of you.

Mino is that you?

 

[lumeyes]

Tough to stay, sign contract extension and trusting a manager who insist on playing a consistent senior player who always give rubbish performances ahead of you.

Fergie was a great manager but not a deity who couldn't be wrong. He didn't think Pogba was ready and preferred to play Park and Raffaele in midfield vs Blackburn. The rest is history.

 

[romufc]

Fergie was a great manager but not a deity who couldn't be wrong. He didn't think Pogba was ready and preferred to play Park and Raffaele in midfield vs Blackburn. The rest is history.

And the jury is still out on Pogba....

 

[Bebestation]

And the jury is still out on Pogba....

Not more so than Rafael in midfield

 

[lumeyes]

And the jury is still out on Pogba....

I understand Pogba can be frustrating but my point was that Fergie didn't see the fact that he was ready. He left for Juve and the senior players - I think Buffon and Pirlo - were reported to have been shocked at his maturity after seeing his first touches on his first training with the team. In any case, there was no justification playing Rafael in midfield when a physically matured Pogba was there. With Gomes one can argue about physicality but not Pogba. He was more or less an instant hit for Juve. Inspite of his on and off form for us, he is still a vital part of a very good French national team. The other point I am trying to make is how ridiculous it was for us to let him go on free transfer only to buy him back with an insane amount a few years later

 

[romufc]

I understand Pogba can be frustrating but my point was that Fergie didn't see the fact that he was ready. He left for Juve and the senior players - I think Buffon and Pirlo - were reported to have been shocked at his maturity after seeing his first touches on his first training with the team. In any case, there was no justification playing Rafael in midfield when a physically matured Pogba was there. With Gomes one can argue about physicality but not Pogba. He was more or less an instant hit for Juve. Inspite of his on and off form for us, he is still a vital part of a very good French national team. The other point I am trying to make is how ridiculous it was for us to let him go on free transfer only to buy him back with an insane amount a few years later

I agree on that he has the quality or Pogba did but I see it slightly differently:

1. He has 6 months left, and If I am a manager building a team, I wouldn't want to give someone a chance when they wont sign a contract.

Why build a team with someone who is not going to be around and is probably using the time to get potential buyers?

 

[lumeyes]

I agree on that he has the quality or Pogba did but I see it slightly differently:

1. He has 6 months left, and If I am a manager building a team, I wouldn't want to give someone a chance when they wont sign a contract.

Why build a team with someone who is not going to be around and is probably using the time to get potential buyers?

I am not sure who you are referring to.

If Pogba, I'll trust his word because there has been no contradiction I know of. And it made sense. He was frustrated at not being given a chance in a seemingly poor midfield (not as poor as the one we have now minus Bruno). I'll paraphrase what he said: " I told Fergie I was ready and he played Park in Midfield vs Blackburn, with Rafael. I gave up"

If Gomes, I'll be careful with rumors flying around. The last one was that he missed training, the reason for his absence in the FA cup. That was a wicked one as far as I am concerned, quite unfair on the kid. The only thing we should based our judgement on is what we have seen. From the pre-season to the EFL match vs Rotherham, there is no justifiable reason to shut him out so that Lingard can keep running around. Mata I can understand in some games, even with his legs gone (the little he had) he is one of the few players with some level of intelligence and creativity. Perreira I can understand because he's been able to make two or three creative moves as a playmaker, even though he can be incredibly bad most times. Lingard, I will never understand. Again I have to make it clear that I am not saying Gomes should have been a starter or first 11 player

In the match vs Rotherhams, Gomes gave a 9 or 9.5 performance against grown ups, some of them as big as it can be. He followed it up weeks later with a good performance vs Astana, again against big and muscular boys. What was the point of not encouraging him by giving him more game time in a position of strength? That left wing thing against tight-sitting defences and in a mostl poor United team is incomprehensible to me. If I were his brother, I would advise him not to sign until there is the sign he will be given a fair chance. He's got nothing to lose except being cut off from his boyhood club, a club which, from what I can see, he loves and wants to be in.


I think the dream of every talented and hungry kid is to play, and it is not out of place.

 

[romufc]

I am not sure who you are referring to.

If Pogba, I'll trust his word because there has been no contradiction I know of. And it made sense. He was frustrated at not being given a chance in a seemingly poor midfield (not as poor as the one we have now minus Bruno). I'll paraphrase what he said: " I told Fergie I was ready and he played Park in Midfield vs Blackburn, with Rafael. I gave up"

If Gomes, I'll be careful with rumors flying around. The last one was that he missed training, the reason for his absence in the FA cup. That was a wicked one as far as I am concerned, quite unfair on the kid. The only thing we should based our judgement on is what we have seen. From the pre-season to the EFL match vs Rotherham, there is no justifiable reason to shut him out so that Lingard can keep running around. Mata I can understand in some games, even with his legs gone (the little he had) he is one of the few players with some level of intelligence and creativity. Perreira I can understand because he's been able to make two or three creative moves as a playmaker, even though he can be incredibly bad most times. Lingard, I will never understand. Again I have to make it clear that I am not saying Gomes should have been a starter or first 11 player

In the match vs Rotherhams, Gomes gave a 9 or 9.5 performance against grown ups, some of them as big as it can be. He followed it up weeks later with a good performance vs Astana, again against big and muscular boys. What was the point of not encouraging him by giving him more game time in a position of strength? That left wing thing against tight-sitting defences and in a mostl poor United team is incomprehensible to me. If I were his brother, I would advise him not to sign until there is the sign he will be given a fair chance. He's got nothing to lose except being cut off from his boyhood club, a club which, from what I can see, he loves and wants to be in.


I think the dream of every talented and hungry kid is to play, and it is not out of place.

I agree that he should have got more chances because lets be honest neither Lingard or Perreira have done enough.

 

[Oldyella]

Not more so than Rafael in midfield

 

[sammsky1]

Tough to stay, sign contract extension and trusting a manager who insist on playing a consistent senior player who always give rubbish performances ahead of you.

Utter nonsense. OGS is very similar to SAF and LVG with regards young players. If you're good enough, you'll get your chance. Gomez has had several opportunities and still looks very raw and off the pace. Either he is not ready yet or isn't good enough.

I think most likely is that he will be like Fletcher, McTominay, DeBryne etc, ie: ready to compete at top clubs aged 22-24, and will have to drop down a level before he works his way up again.

I'm not fussed if he leaves.

 

[Robbo*]

MEN

And De Gea and Mata now there, some of them must have travelled directly.

 

[Bondi77]

Fergie was a great manager but not a deity who couldn't be wrong. He didn't think Pogba was ready and preferred to play Park and Raffaele in midfield vs Blackburn. The rest is history.

I thought the return of Scholes was what hindered the progress of Pogba at Utd and with that we won another title.
That is history, good history.

 

[Jeppers7]

And the jury is still out on Pogba....

The jury is still out on every player in our squad then.

 

[dutchred]

I believe his heart is still with United. I just read he went to the Youth training camp in Lisbon for a couple of days before joining the rest of the first team. That shows a lot of dedication

 

[Adam-Utd]

I think similarly like Hudson Odoi he's just putting himself in a strong bargaining position - I just hope the club don't call his bluff and risk saying "you've had your chance, cya"

From pretty much everything he says it's about being at united or loving Manchester, i'd be really surprised if he did end up going.

 

[lumeyes]

I thought the return of Scholes was what hindered the progress of Pogba at Utd and with that we won another title.
That is history, good history.

Wasn't Scholes playing much deeper? I remember a less intensive game in which he played alongside Pogba.

And where did that good history leave us? Short time goal should never be at the detriment of a long term planning. I am not just talking about Pogba but the failure of the club to think ahead. We became too reliant on Neville, Ferdinand, Giggs and Scholes when they should be guiding and helping their successors, and got properly schooled by Iniesta and Xavi in two champions league final. That's also history

 

[Bondi77]

Wasn't Scholes playing much deeper? I remember a less intensive game in which he played alongside Pogba.

And where did that good history leave us? Short time goal should never be at the detriment of a long term planning. I am not just talking about Pogba but the failure of the club to think ahead. We became too reliant on Neville, Ferdinand, Giggs and Scholes when they should be guiding and helping their successors, and got properly schooled by Iniesta and Xavi in two champions league final. That's also history

Well there is no shame in being beaten by arguably the best club side ever in the biggest club game of the season twice and that Utd team was probably the second best club side in the world at that time.
What would we give for that now eh?

 

[0le]

Wasn't Scholes playing much deeper? I remember a less intensive game in which he played alongside Pogba.

And where did that good history leave us? Short time goal should never be at the detriment of a long term planning. I am not just talking about Pogba but the failure of the club to think ahead. We became too reliant on Neville, Ferdinand, Giggs and Scholes when they should be guiding and helping their successors, and got properly schooled by Iniesta and Xavi in two champions league final. That's also history

We tried to bring through a new breed of young players, which included Cleverley, Evans, Jones, Smalling, Welbeck and Rafael. For one reason or another, none of them really worked. It wasn't like we completely stopped with the long term planning.

 

[tjb]

He's not that good and in the wrong team may fade into obscurity. He needs proper development and gametime which we cannot afford to offer him at the moment. He is unsatisfied with his current role, but would be in a worse position at any of the other top european clubs. He is too small at the moment to make an impression in the premier league and his talent and effect on the game isn't outstanding enough to not take this into account.
We would lose absolutely nothing if we sold him. Too many people are worried about the Pogba situation repeating itself. He has more chance of being Andreas Pereirra than Pogba given his current standard. This has nothing to do with age. Greenwood is getting chances and has taken them, as has Williams. Gomes is not impactful enough and we just signed a star in the position he would have wanted the most. Unless he can show some quality playing on the right wing, his time here is most likely coming to an end given his ambitions.

 

[lumeyes]

Well there is no shame in being beaten by arguably the best club side ever in the biggest club game of the season twice and that Utd team was probably the second best club side in the world at that time.
What would we give for that now eh?

I think it's a stretch to say we were the second best side in the world. We were being managed by a brilliant coach. In any case, the gulf in class between us and Barca was shameful the first time, and again the second time.

We tried to bring through a new breed of young players, which included Cleverley, Evans, Jones, Smalling, Welbeck and Rafael. For one reason or another, none of them really worked. It wasn't like we completely stopped with the long term planning.

Yes we didn't completely stop trying but if you take a look at the list you drew up you should see what was and has been wrong with us for a while now: neglecting the midfield. Somehow it appeared it didn't occur to us that Scholes and the converted Giggs were going to stop playing. I can recall some games we played against teams we could have dominated in the days of Keane, a younger Scholes, Butt, etc but we ended up being dominated - Bayern Munich in a preseason friendly, Valencia in the same category (Davild Silva moved the ball around like he didn't care), Real Betis in Europa league, etc. Yes we won some but the signs were there that our midfield was going backwards. The presence of Ronaldo and an in form Rooney, and later Tevez probably didn't "help", same with Fletchers illness. Then we still had Evra and a Rafael who was decent. Sneijder was available when we sold Ronaldo to Real Madrid and I hoped he was going to come to us. Yes a short term replacement but still would have been of big help. Nothing happened as the Glazers pocketed the money.

He's not that good and in the wrong team may fade into obscurity. He needs proper development and gametime which we cannot afford to offer him at the moment. He is unsatisfied with his current role, but would be in a worse position at any of the other top european clubs. He is too small at the moment to make an impression in the premier league and his talent and effect on the game isn't outstanding enough to not take this into account.
We would lose absolutely nothing if we sold him. Too many people are worried about the Pogba situation repeating itself. He has more chance of being Andreas Pereirra than Pogba given his current standard. This has nothing to do with age. Greenwood is getting chances and has taken them, as has Williams. Gomes is not impactful enough and we just signed a star in the position he would have wanted the most. Unless he can show some quality playing on the right wing, his time here is most likely coming to an end given his ambitions.

You can't win this argument with facts, and sound logic. No one has said he is a saviour, it's rare for a kid to be. Seems like you haven't seen Greenwood being anonymous in games, even one or two in which he scored great goals. You don't play kids to carry a team, a team should rather carry talented kids to help their development.

 

[tjb]

I think it's a stretch to say we were the second best side in the world. We were being managed by a brilliant coach. In any case, the gulf in class between us and Barca was shameful the first time, and again the second time.



Yes we didn't completely stop trying but if you take a look at the list you drew up you should see what was and has been wrong with us for a while now: neglecting the midfield. Somehow it appeared it didn't occur to us that Scholes and the converted Giggs were going to stop playing. I can recall some games we played against teams we could have dominated in the days of Keane, a younger Scholes, Butt, etc but we ended up being dominated - Bayern Munich in a preseason friendly, Valencia in the same category (Davild Silva moved the ball around like he didn't care), Real Betis in Europa league, etc. Yes we won some but the signs were there that our midfield was going backwards. The presence of Ronaldo and an in form Rooney, and later Tevez probably didn't "help", same with Fletchers illness. Then we still had Evra and a Rafael who was decent. Sneijder was available when we sold Ronaldo to Real Madrid and I hoped he was going to come to us. Yes a short term replacement but still would have been of big help. Nothing happened as the Glazers pocketed the money.



You can't win this argument with facts, and sound logic. No one has said he is a saviour, it's rare for a kid to be. Seems like you haven't seen Greenwood being anonymous in games, even one or two in which he scored great goals. You don't play kids to carry a team, a team should rather carry talented kids to help their development.

The problem is, when starting in the first team, I haven't seen anything from him at all. I don't expect him to carry anything, but I expect to see areas where he can contribute. You can see some technique and a bit of off the ball movement, but in my estimation, without the size to back it up, it will be difficult for him to be productive in the premier league. Aside from size, technique and a bit of off the ball ability is not enough to convince me of anything. Lots of barcelona youngsters have had this and have proven to be championship players in the long term. Greenwood's potential and the translation of it to the premier league are clear. I don't have to squint and hope to see anything even if he is anonymous in some games.

 

[lumeyes]

The problem is, when starting in the first team, I haven't seen anything from him at all. I don't expect him to carry anything, but I expect to see areas where he can contribute. You can see some technique and a bit of off the ball movement, but in my estimation, without the size to back it up, it will be difficult for him to be productive in the premier league. Aside from size, technique and a bit of off the ball ability is not enough to convince me of anything. Lots of barcelona youngsters have had this and have proven to be championship players in the long term. Greenwood's potential and the translation of it to the premier league are clear. I don't have to squint and hope to see anything even if he is anonymous in some games.

You may well be correct but there is not enough data to support your argument at the moment. If you restrict it only to "size matters" then it becomes easier to appreciate but even at that one can not safely bet on it.

One of the reasons some are asking for more game time for him is to weigh him up and decide what to do with him. Should he go on loan and where, go back to U23, or be let go. If he were at city, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool, etc, one could understand his limited game time. Here we have Lingard and Perreira shutting him out of the no 10 position. The latter once in a while conjures up something, even if he seems lost when given enough space and time. Lingard on the other hand stopped playing football a year ago, and has gotten increasingly worse. I saw Gomes make more impact as a no 10 vs Astana than Lingard did in the same position against the same team, even when the latter played about 30 minutes longer. In fact many here argued, and correctly so, that Gomes was more impactful in 10 mins vs Norwich than Lingard had been for 60 minutes in several games, when compared one on one. My problem with his exclusion (I don't count any time he played on the left wing) is precisely the quality of players who have kept him out, especially in games where we could afford to play him

 

[Bondi77]

I think it's a stretch to say we were the second best side in the world. We were being managed by a brilliant coach. In any case, the gulf in class between us and Barca was shameful the first time, and again the second time.



Yes we didn't completely stop trying but if you take a look at the list you drew up you should see what was and has been wrong with us for a while now: neglecting the midfield. Somehow it appeared it didn't occur to us that Scholes and the converted Giggs were going to stop playing. I can recall some games we played against teams we could have dominated in the days of Keane, a younger Scholes, Butt, etc but we ended up being dominated - Bayern Munich in a preseason friendly, Valencia in the same category (Davild Silva moved the ball around like he didn't care), Real Betis in Europa league, etc. Yes we won some but the signs were there that our midfield was going backwards. The presence of Ronaldo and an in form Rooney, and later Tevez probably didn't "help", same with Fletchers illness. Then we still had Evra and a Rafael who was decent. Sneijder was available when we sold Ronaldo to Real Madrid and I hoped he was going to come to us. Yes a short term replacement but still would have been of big help. Nothing happened as the Glazers pocketed the money.



You can't win this argument with facts, and sound logic. No one has said he is a saviour, it's rare for a kid to be. Seems like you haven't seen Greenwood being anonymous in games, even one or two in which he scored great goals. You don't play kids to carry a team, a team should rather carry talented kids to help their development.

Well if we make the final three times in four years and are dominant in our own league I would say it is a real strong argument to say we were the second best around at that time.

 

[MadDogg]

I think it's a stretch to say we were the second best side in the world. We were being managed by a brilliant coach. In any case, the gulf in class between us and Barca was shameful the first time, and again the second time.

We were obviously the second best in the world at the time of the first final. At most other times in the past 30 years we would have been the best, but unfortunately our time happened to coincide with the rise of arguably the greatest footballing team of all time.

By the time the second one came around we'd obviously dropped off a bit, but we were still up amongst the best of the rest.

 

[POF]

I believe his heart is still with United. I just read he went to the Youth training camp in Lisbon for a couple of days before joining the rest of the first team. That shows a lot of dedication

A lot of dedication? He just showed up for work!

 

[Red_toad]

A lot of dedication? He just showed up for work!

He doesn’t work in the youth system anymore! What a silly comment.

 

[dutchred]

A lot of dedication? He just showed up for work!

It was one or the other. he did both, for me that shows dedication

 

[POF]

He doesn’t work in the youth system anymore! What a silly comment.

Obviously he does. He still plays regularly with the u23s.

So (in these days of load management) you think the club gave him a few days off but he decided he'd head over to train with the kids on his days off?!

It was one or the other. he did both, for me that shows dedication

He would clearly have been asked to do both and did it because that's his job. He wasn't commuting between both each day!

 

[kouroux]

Fergie was a great manager but not a deity who couldn't be wrong. He didn't think Pogba was ready and preferred to play Park and Raffaele in midfield vs Blackburn. The rest is history.

SAF once played Jones as a 10. I kid you not

 

[Red_toad]

Obviously he does. He still plays regularly with the u23s.

Er sorry the youth academy isn’t the under 23’s. He’s an adult with a full professional contract. Do you not know the difference?

 

[passing-wind]

I like Gomes he's a good player but Ole nor McKenna / Carrick have the coaching impetus to get any decent use out of players playing in a number 10. We are a team devoid of ideas in possession especially when linking the play from the midfield, Angel is a possession based footballer and is useless outside of that because he cannot impose himself due to lack of physicality. I think right now in his career he has the worst set of circumstances to move forward so I can see why leaving is viable for his present development.

 

[Fiskey]

We tried to bring through a new breed of young players, which included Cleverley, Evans, Jones, Smalling, Welbeck and Rafael. For one reason or another, none of them really worked. It wasn't like we completely stopped with the long term planning.

I think age profile wise, maybe a touch older you could include Fletcher, Hargreaves, Anderson and Nani to that forward planning.