[RooneyLegend]

Someone like Cazorla might be an excellent player for him to emulate.

Nope, the best player for him to emulate is suprisingly enough, his namesake, Papu Gomes. Almost identical players. He could learn how to impose himself on games by watching the Atalanta captain.

 

[In Rainbows]

 

[V.O.]

Not a bad highlight reel for someone who pretty much didn't get a fecking game. Even from that you can see that his close control is as good as anybody at the club and that he sees the play unfolding faster than most of our attackers. It's the mystery of the season to me why Chong (who doesn't seem to particularly excel at anything right now) was given so many more chances, especially when we were relying on Lingard and Pereira in the number 10 spot for so long.

 

[izec]

Not a bad highlight reel for someone who pretty much didn't get a fecking game. Even from that you can see that his close control is as good as anybody at the club and that he sees the play unfolding faster than most of our attackers. It's the mystery of the season to me why Chong (who doesn't seem to particularly excel at anything right now) was given so many more chances, especially when we were relying on Lingard and Pereira in the number 10 spot for so long.

it really is mystery. The coaching staff doesn‘t rate him (then they are blind) or they think he isn't ready physically. But then again, Chong isn't either and he is less talented as well. Even the contract isn't as an excuse, as Chong got game time before signing a new one.

 

[Raven]

Not a bad highlight reel for someone who pretty much didn't get a fecking game. Even from that you can see that his close control is as good as anybody at the club and that he sees the play unfolding faster than most of our attackers. It's the mystery of the season to me why Chong (who doesn't seem to particularly excel at anything right now) was given so many more chances, especially when we were relying on Lingard and Pereira in the number 10 spot for so long.

Yeah, for me, Chong has been nothing short of terrible for the first team. Gomes has shown a lot more and been rewarded with far fewer chances. Given that Ole has been good with the youths so far, I find it quite confusing.

 

[Bestietom]

I don't know whether it's down to his size or not signing a new contract, but he should have got more game time. He is very skillful and the times before we got Fernandes and had Pereira and Lingard playing as a 10 I think he should have got more chances.

 

[In Rainbows]

it really is mystery. The coaching staff doesn‘t rate him (then they are blind) or they think he isn't ready physically. But then again, Chong isn't either and he is less talented as well. Even the contract isn't as an excuse, as Chong got game time before signing a new one.

Maybe it's due to McKenna being Chong's head coach at u18 level right before becoming a first team coach. That season Chong was pretty incredible. That season, Gomes didn't perform to the same level he is used to because he had many injuries.

I'm not sure. It sounds a bit irrational, but I can't think of many reasons when Gomes touch and awareness is superior to that of Chong's, which should lend itself to performing better against men. And this is seen whenever they play for the first team, where Chong can look immature, while Gomes' "bad" performances is him being merely quiet. Big difference in bad performances despite both being labeled bad.

But who knows. Maybe all the evidence is contradicted by first team practices, where magically Chong looks better than Gomes.

 

[Brightonian]

Just bringing this discussion into the appropriate thread...

He was a substitute in most of the games at that world cup, if memory serves correctly he only started once or twice, he wasn't exactly the catalyst for the trophy.

He was just returning from the injury that kept him out of the UEFA u17 Championship that year. The fact he was nevertheless included and even retained as captain shows how integral he was to that side, arguably the key player in qualifying for the tournament.

- He was subbed on for 20 minutes in the first game, and immediately contributed a goal and an assist.
- He was given the entire second half in the second game, providing another assist and winning the penalty for the winner with a shot that was blocked by a hand ball.
- He started and got 67 minutes in the third game, scoring the opener and assisting another.
- He started and got 64 minutes in the fourth game. The game was 0-0, won on penalties. He provided exactly half of all England's key passes in that game.
- At the end of that game he had a flare up of the injury that he had preceding the tournament, and didn't play again until coming on at the end of the final.

That's a goal or assist every 33 minutes. Significantly better minutes per goal/assist ratio than Rhian Brewster, who of course was golden boot with 8 goals in the tournament but who played the full 90 in every game except one.

Again, I didn't say he was our most important player in this tournament. But he was captain and one of the key players in a team full of age-group superstars, and these stats (along with what you actually saw with your eyes if, like me, you watched the whole tournament) fully backs up that statement.

 

[AltiUn]

Just bringing this discussion into the appropriate thread...



He was just returning from the injury that kept him out of the UEFA u17 Championship that year. The fact he was nevertheless included and even retained as captain shows how integral he was to that side, arguably the key player in qualifying for the tournament.

- He was subbed on for 20 minutes in the first game, and immediately contributed a goal and an assist.
- He was given the entire second half in the second game, providing another assist and winning the penalty for the winner with a shot that was blocked by a hand ball.
- He started and got 67 minutes in the third game, scoring the opener and assisting another.
- He started and got 64 minutes in the fourth game. The game was 0-0, won on penalties. He provided exactly half of all England's key passes in that game.
- At the end of that game he had a flare up of the injury that he had preceding the tournament, and didn't play again until coming on at the end of the final.

That's a goal or assist every 33 minutes. Significantly better minutes per goal/assist ratio than Rhian Brewster, who of course was golden boot with 8 goals in the tournament but who played the full 90 in every game except one.

Again, I didn't say he was our most important player in this tournament. But he was captain and one of the key players in a team full of age-group superstars, and these stats (along with what you actually saw with your eyes if, like me, you watched the whole tournament) fully backs up that statement.

You can use any stat you like, he wasn't a key player in that tournament. I watched the tournament too, don't make baseless assumptions.

 

[pascell]

Any new news on the contract side of things? It was either The Athletic or Mitten that did an article about our flourishing youth set up last week and mentioned he's been offered a new deal.

 

[yumtum]

It would be risky for a lot of footballers going into this summer with no contract, what club would offer a juicy signing on bonus these players are used to with no cash coming in?

Then you have youth players like Gomes in the difficult position of having no real playing time and wanting 50k a week - he would only really get that here, I think his agents hardball approach came at the wrong time for Gomes.

 

[izec]

Any new news on the contract side of things? It was either The Athletic or Mitten that did an article about our flourishing youth set up last week and mentioned he's been offered a new deal.

The issue wasn't that we didn't offer him a contract, he is reluctant to sign. I guess money and first team chances were a stumbling block. How this will end is anyone's guess.

 

[JJ12]

Any new news on the contract side of things? It was either The Athletic or Mitten that did an article about our flourishing youth set up last week and mentioned he's been offered a new deal.

It was Mitten on The Athletic - was a very encouraging read too.

Angel has been offered a contract for a long time I believe. He’s obviously looking at all of his options before deciding.

I don’t even think you can link his lack of first team opportunities to being reluctant to sign the deal because Chong has had plenty of chances when he was equally reluctant.

 

[pascell]

The issue wasn't that we didn't offer him a contract, he is reluctant to sign. I guess money and first team chances were a stumbling block. How this will end is anyone's guess.

From what I read, the first stumbling block was wages offered and pathway into the first team, the same as Chong and we've convinced him. I'm sure we can offer what Angel needs without skewing the wage structure for academy graduates.

It was Mitten on The Athletic - was a very encouraging read too.

Angel has been offered a contract for a long time I believe. He’s obviously looking at all of his options before deciding.

I don’t even think you can link his lack of first team opportunities to being reluctant to sign the deal because Chong has had plenty of chances when he was equally reluctant.

Yeah I thought that as well.

I feel he could sign, as you say, it's just other options he's got.

Yeah that was pretty confusing at the time given the reports of him negotiating with Inter.

 

[Brightonian]

You can use any stat you like, he wasn't a key player in that tournament. I watched the tournament too, don't make baseless assumptions.

Not much of a counter-argument though, is it.

 

[Bondi77]

I think it is widely accepted that the young man has been very good at youth level and he has been good at division 2 reserve level.
The simple truth is that he trains with the first team all the time under the watchful eye of Ole and Ole prefers the other options available to him at this point in time.
If at some point he plays for the first team or another club's first team then we can judge his performance at the highest level because at this point in time we really have nothing to work with.
It does take more than a good skill set and a really good technique to make it at the top level so while Angel has those maybe Ole feels he is lackiing in other areas.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I don’t see him making it at Utd at all. We shouldn’t be offering these types of players big Money. We put the likes of Wilson and Januzaj on massive contracts, and they had done a hell of a lot more for the first team than Angle and Chong.

given the type of football we play, I really don’t see how he fits into the team, even if he was good enough - he’s not the sort of dynamic player that we need. He looks far more suited to a Spanish team than the PL.

 

[Grande]

You can use any stat you like, he wasn't a key player in that tournament. I watched the tournament too, don't make baseless assumptions.

i was going to comment on this too, as the claim was not what you say, but that he 1) captained England u17 to a world cup win (he was main captain going into the tournament, captained both games he started and had presumably the same status in the squad that has been renowned for having many and good leaders in the dressing room as a vital ingredient in their success - I’d say it’s close enough) and b) was a key player in a team that included Jadon Sancho, Hudson Callum-Odoi and Rhian Brewster,which he was, as that team didn’t pop up at the world cup but had been playing together for a good while before that, and Gomes and Sancho was to my knowledge at the time talked about as the the two main players in that team, up until the world cup. That point stands pretty well too, and if you take the context into account, I’d say you were nitpicking/missing the point anyway.

I believe the point was that Gomes certainly has showed more than the average ‘talented youth player’ at younger levels, he has been attracting the kind of interest that a young Morrison, Pogba and yes, Sancho did. And with good reason.

As we all know, the last steps are the hardest, and we’ll just have to wait and see if it’s a question og this, that or the other and wether he can take the steps that Odoi and Sancho has taken already. He reminds me a bit of a young Martin Ødegaard, great talent at 15, ‘supposedly good talent, what happened to him? Holland?’ at 19, brilliant key player in a La Liga top 5 team at 20.

will Ødegaard take yet another step to feature regularly at Real Madrid? Who knows. Didn’t look that way to many a year and a half ago. With Gomes, there is just no way of knowing. But his talent at 16/17 was way above Januszaj and Wilson and other young talents mentioned in this thread.

 

[TwoSheds]

i was going to comment on this too, as the claim was not what you say, but that he 1) captained England u17 to a world cup win (he was main captain going into the tournament, captained both games he started and had presumably the same status in the squad that has been renowned for having many and good leaders in the dressing room as a vital ingredient in their success - I’d say it’s close enough) and b) was a key player in a team that included Jadon Sancho, Hudson Callum-Odoi and Rhian Brewster,which he was, as that team didn’t pop up at the world cup but had been playing together for a good while before that, and Gomes and Sancho was to my knowledge at the time talked about as the the two main players in that team, up until the world cup. That point stands pretty well too, and if you take the context into account, I’d say you were nitpicking/missing the point anyway.

I believe the point was that Gomes certainly has showed more than the average ‘talented youth player’ at younger levels, he has been attracting the kind of interest that a young Morrison, Pogba and yes, Sancho did. And with good reason.

As we all know, the last steps are the hardest, and we’ll just have to wait and see if it’s a question og this, that or the other and wether he can take the steps that Odoi and Sancho has taken already. He reminds me a bit of a young Martin Ødegaard, great talent at 15, ‘supposedly good talent, what happened to him? Holland?’ at 19, brilliant key player in a La Liga top 5 team at 20.

will Ødegaard take yet another step to feature regularly at Real Madrid? Who knows. Didn’t look that way to many a year and a half ago. With Gomes, there is just no way of knowing. But his talent at 16/17 was way above Januszaj and Wilson and other young talents mentioned in this thread.

Not arguing here but just thought I'd make the point that Hudson-Odoi and Sancho's careers are not comparable at the moment. The former has done very little at first team level so far after winning his contract, whereas Sancho is on the verge of being world class.

 

[tenpoless]

Armenia : Mkhitaryan

 

[Grande]

Not arguing here but just thought I'd make the point that Hudson-Odoi and Sancho's careers are not comparable at the moment. The former has done very little at first team level so far after winning his contract, whereas Sancho is on the verge of being world class.

undoubtedly. My point was rather that both has made a step Gomes hasn’t yet, as a regular option for a men’s team at top level. Sancho has obviously made further steps.

Gomes might be just a step behind Hudson-Odoi at this point, even as he was probably better than him a few years ago. He might make that step, he might not.

 

[Bondi77]

undoubtedly. My point was rather that both has made a step Gomes hasn’t yet, as a regular option for a men’s team at top level. Sancho has obviously made further steps.

Gomes might be just a step behind Hudson-Odoi at this point, even as he was probably better than him a few years ago. He might make that step, he might not.

No doubt in my mind that Hudson Odoi is going to be a top top player.

 

[In Rainbows]

Gomes and Sancho was to my knowledge at the time talked about as the the two main players in that team, up until the world cup. That point stands pretty well too, and if you take the context into account, I’d say you were nitpicking/missing the point anyway.

I would say that was partially true prior to the Euros. After the Euros (Gomes missed due to injury), Hudson Odoi got that reputation. I would say from the u15 to that point, Sancho, Foden, and Gomes were the 3 to look out for the most. A wild card was Sessegnon because he was pushed to higher levels due to starting to play in the Championship. It's important to note that this was a very very talented generation (probably England's best in a decade).

The World Cup and Euros weren't proof of how talented a generation it was. It was more of the icing on a cake or rather more of an inevitability. Unlike the older generations that won international competitions at the same time of their World Cup win, they weren't branded "golden generation" based off a single competition. The older generations (anything born 99' and earlier) were only lumped together with that Sancho group based on their cup wins. Nobody was calling those generations a golden generation at u15 level like they were to the 2000 born generation (Gomes, Sancho, Foden) at u15 level.

After the World Cup, I thought the 3 main players were Sancho, CHO, and Foden. Gomes slipped to the level of Mceachran, and Gibbs White, but with the potential to go beyond them. To this day, I think it's obvious that Sancho, Foden, and Gomes have the best technical ability of all players from their generation and likely of anything hovering around 97-2002.

 

[Grande]

I would say that was partially true prior to the Euros. After the Euros (Gomes missed due to injury), Hudson Odoi got that reputation. I would say from the u15 to that point, Sancho, Foden, and Gomes were the 3 to look out for the most. A wild card was Sessegnon because he was pushed to higher levels due to starting to play in the Championship. It's important to note that this was a very very talented generation (probably England's best in a decade).

The World Cup and Euros weren't proof of how talented a generation it was. It was more of the icing on a cake or rather more of an inevitability. Unlike the older generations that won international competitions at the same time of their World Cup win, they weren't branded "golden generation" based off a single competition. The older generations (anything born 99' and earlier) were only lumped together with that Sancho group based on their cup wins. Nobody was calling those generations a golden generation at u15 level like they were to the 2000 born generation (Gomes, Sancho, Foden) at u15 level.

After the World Cup, I thought the 3 main players were Sancho, CHO, and Foden. Gomes slipped to the level of Mceachran, and Gibbs White, but with the potential to go beyond them. To this day, I think it's obvious that Sancho, Foden, and Gomes have the best technical ability of all players from their generation and likely of anything hovering around 97-2002.

Foden, of course, was the name that I couldn’t get into my head in the previous post. Yes, you’d know better than I, but it was a generation that fully expected to win the WC, being 0-2 down to Spain in the first half and without their captain. on merit, because that’s what they were used to.

It has to be the most talented single year crop since Busby Babes surely?I’d be surprised if not at least five of those players ends up at PL level.