[NWRed]

One of 2 (along with Greenwood) potentially home grown world class players we have at the moment. Those writing him off after the meagre amount of time he's had so far are being far too premature. He obviously can't physically impose himself on games, he needs to get used to the speed of play and the lack of thinking time in the PL, when he does he'll develop into a world class no. 10.

A loan move to a championship club maybe a good move in January to build some confidence at first team level. I wouldn't go with a foreign club as it's pace and space he needs to adjust to not develop technical ability.

 

[AltiUn]

As a youth player, he's supposed to earn opportunities with the limited time he has, rather than have them handed to him; especially in a position with a lot of senior options. Remember how Williams played initially? He forced Ole to consider him more.

Hopefully Gomes can do the same sometime soon, if he's as good as I hear.

Personally, in the one full game Solskjaer did allow him to have I thought he was fine, he wasn't spectacular but he had some neat touches/dribbles, he's certainly shown no less than Mata and Lingard who've had years to lock down the position and failed to do so. I'm not pretending I think Gomes is going to be our saviour or anything but I'd actually like to see what he's capable of in first team football, he's barely been given a chance which I find a bit strange considering how willing we've been with the other lads.

As many will tell you Gomes took his time to settle into the U23 team, he might need a similar bedding in period for the first team transition, although if we don't give him the chance to do so then the bedding in period might take a hell of a lot longer.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Personally, in the one full game Solskjaer did allow him to have I thought he was fine, he wasn't spectacular but he had some neat touches/dribbles, he's certainly shown no less than Mata and Lingard who've had years to lock down the position and failed to do so. I'm not pretending I think Gomes is going to be our saviour or anything but I'd actually like to see what he's capable of in first team football, he's barely been given a chance which I find a bit strange considering how willing we've been with the other lads.

As many will tell you Gomes took his time to settle into the U23 team, he might need a similar bedding in period for the first team transition, although if we don't give him the chance to do so then the bedding in period might take a hell of a lot longer.

I'm of the same mind as you. I assume the reason why others have gotten more chances is our lack of depth in other areas (LB, CM, ST), meaning less senior pros to outperform.

I think to be considered more he needs to up his intensity and not be a passenger, as it's clear that's a key part of what Ole likes. Like I said before, force Ole to play him despite his size. See the way Pereira plays? If Gomes can have that same intensity then he'll be playing more often for sure, as he definitely seems to have good technical ability.

 

[Tel074]

He's completed 1 full match at first team level this season and you think in the precious few minutes he's had (that came in our worst period of the season, I might add) that he's clearly not ready? We won't know how ready he is until we give him more of an opportunity.

I honestly don't think he is ready either . The boy needs a season on loan playing regular 1st team football and see how that goes

 

[Gandalf]

Personally, in the one full game Solskjaer did allow him to have I thought he was fine, he wasn't spectacular but he had some neat touches/dribbles, he's certainly shown no less than Mata and Lingard who've had years to lock down the position and failed to do so. I'm not pretending I think Gomes is going to be our saviour or anything but I'd actually like to see what he's capable of in first team football, he's barely been given a chance which I find a bit strange considering how willing we've been with the other lads.

As many will tell you Gomes took his time to settle into the U23 team, he might need a similar bedding in period for the first team transition, although if we don't give him the chance to do so then the bedding in period might take a hell of a lot longer.

To be fair I think to some extent the lack of first team action so far can be attributed to poor luck/timing with injuries. Whilst he has not suffered a major problem he has had a couple of knocks this season right as we were hitting periods of fixture congestion with the most recent being a knock in the U23s game early last week after he had played well and scored. He hasn't returned to action since but I would imagine but for the injury he would have played some part in the squads for the cup games at least. Fingers crossed he stays healthy from here on out, Partizan at home would be a good one for him to be involved with.

 

[DVG7]

One of 2 (along with Greenwood) potentially home grown world class players we have at the moment. Those writing him off after the meagre amount of time he's had so far are being far too premature. He obviously can't physically impose himself on games, he needs to get used to the speed of play and the lack of thinking time in the PL, when he does he'll develop into a world class no. 10.

A loan move to a championship club maybe a good move in January to build some confidence at first team level. I wouldn't go with a foreign club as it's pace and space he needs to adjust to not develop technical ability.

I might be having some memory blocks, but I'm not sure there are many examples of players going on loan to the championship and then developing to become world class, particularly as a number 10? I think that's a position that your skill-set is evident enough at age 18 that if they are going to develop into a world class player, then they aren't going on loan to anyone.

Having read through this thread in almost it's entirety, it's amazing how it seems to have escaped some minds that currently managing Gomes is a bunch of well paid, hugely qualified coaches, who see him day in day out in training. If Gomes was tearing it up training with the first team, I suspect we would have seen even more of him, but the reality is that he's probably finding it quite difficult and he doesn't stand out as much as we hope he could. It might be the pace and physicality of the league that he's struggling to come to grips with, and with his size and attributes the reality is he is probably going to be much more suited to a slower more technical league like La Liga.

He is finding his way, and at his stage character plays such a huge part. How is he coping with no longer being able to waltz past players and finding that the opposition aren't smart enough to deny him the space he wants to create? I'm convinced that if his performances in training start matching the expectations of some people in here, then he'll feature in the team more regularly.

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

What is it with those obsessed by stature, it's like a pre historic mentality that's held the English game back for decades and some are still fixated with it, there's umpteen examples of small in stature players that consistently outperform their larger team mates.

Let it go..............

Il use an example other than Messi, one that shone in this league Santi Cazorla
In fact il use one more, Gianfranco Zola
One more for the road Juninho

 

[Ekeke]

He's the kind of player you just get on the pitch and get involved to give him experience and help him adapt to the level, knowing full well he already has the ability to be a really good player. He just needs to do what he's already capable of against adults. Get him on the ball, passing it around and taking a few shots and it'll be hard to go wrong even if he isn't the next Rashford. If he actually plays theres no way he isnt worth a squad position

 

[Red_toad]

So the assertion that he isn't physically ready isn't actually true then...

Does that mean Martial isn’t physically ready or Jones? Or are they simply prone to the odd injury.
If injured you cannot prove you’re physically ready.

 

[Stacks]

I might be having some memory blocks, but I'm not sure there are many examples of players going on loan to the championship and then developing to become world class, particularly as a number 10? I think that's a position that your skill-set is evident enough at age 18 that if they are going to develop into a world class player, then they aren't going on loan to anyone.

Having read through this thread in almost it's entirety, it's amazing how it seems to have escaped some minds that currently managing Gomes is a bunch of well paid, hugely qualified coaches, who see him day in day out in training. If Gomes was tearing it up training with the first team, I suspect we would have seen even more of him, but the reality is that he's probably finding it quite difficult and he doesn't stand out as much as we hope he could. It might be the pace and physicality of the league that he's struggling to come to grips with, and with his size and attributes the reality is he is probably going to be much more suited to a slower more technical league like La Liga.

He is finding his way, and at his stage character plays such a huge part. How is he coping with no longer being able to waltz past players and finding that the opposition aren't smart enough to deny him the space he wants to create? I'm convinced that if his performances in training start matching the expectations of some people in here, then he'll feature in the team more regularly.

Players who at 18 that we can make a calculated guess are gonna be world class usually have attributes already superior to their older peers. It's why we can guess they will be world class because they only need to improve on a few things. It's very rare for top clubs to produce world class players from the academy. We have one since 92. ONE. So it's pure hope and prayer at this stage. There is no guarantee they will even make it at United. Pogba at 18 or 19 went straight into Juve 1st team so it's not absurd to label him potentially world class. But as you say, Gomes is not doing enough to break into this awful United midfield for a reason. Maybe Ole is Fergie in disguise and Gomes needs a move to Juve. I would actually like to see Gomes in Portugal on loan.

 

[Red_toad]

What is it with those obsessed by stature, it's like a pre historic mentality that's held the English game back for decades and some are still fixated with it, there's umpteen examples of small in stature players that consistently outperform their larger team mates.

Let it go..............

Il use an example other than Messi, one that shone in this league Santi Cazorla
In fact il use one more, Gianfranco Zola
One more for the road Juninho

your examples are all taller and none currently play in the EPL.

 

[JJ12]

What is it with those obsessed by stature, it's like a pre historic mentality that's held the English game back for decades and some are still fixated with it, there's umpteen examples of small in stature players that consistently outperform their larger team mates.

Let it go..............

Il use an example other than Messi, one that shone in this league Santi Cazorla
In fact il use one more, Gianfranco Zola
One more for the road Juninho

It's infuriating.

The game has moved on...

 

[JJ12]

your examples are all taller and none currently play in the EPL.

So you think they needed that extra inch to be they players they were?

Zola played in an era where it was far more physical so not sure what your point is about them not playing in the prem currently.

 

[In Rainbows]

So you think they needed that extra inch to be they players they were?

Zola played in an era where it was far more physical so not sure what your point is about them not playing in the prem currently.

They can never explain how an extra 2 inches help. People act like Gomes is a striker or a CB where height is more important due to having to head the ball. Gomes is never going to have to outmuscle players because that's not his playstyle. It's such a ridiculous point.

He is finding his way, and at his stage character plays such a huge part. How is he coping with no longer being able to waltz past players and finding that the opposition aren't smart enough to deny him the space he wants to create? I'm convinced that if his performances in training start matching the expectations of some people in here, then he'll feature in the team more regularly.

Gomes has never played in a manner where he's waltzing past players. Now it's certainly possible that he's finding it hard to adjust to the speed at which players close in on him, but I think that's an adjustment he'll make because his technical ability is pretty much better than almost anyone at United.

I find it more likely that if he were to struggle, it's more so because of being passive as even in the youth matches, there is the rare occasion where he doesn't have an impact on the pitch because he doesn't impose himself by forcing an attack. He's a very smart, patient player who gives what the defense gives him. If space is closed off for him, he's not going to force himself by trying to dribble past players or try to put in a killer through ball. That's probably where the next step in development is headed, trying to utilize his technical ability to create chances for himself or others in very tight spaces, or possibly getting better at finding pockets of space so that he can inflict damage.

 

[Red_toad]

So you think they needed that extra inch to be they players they were?

Zola played in an era where it was far more physical so not sure what your point is about them not playing in the prem currently.

it’s not about what I think, it statistics. You picked a guy who played 20 years ago, so yes time is relevant.

 

[limerickcitykid]

it’s not about what I think, it statistics. You picked a guy who played 20 years ago, so yes time is relevant.

What statistic shows 1 inch makes a player better?

And since you're so pedantic about time. Bernard, Fraser, Torreira, Nampaly Mendy, and Atsu are all still in the PL. Britton just ended a 7 year PL career. Joe Allen still going. Maxi Moralez is shorter than Angel and had a lengthy career in Serie A. So the extra inch or two for Angel there means he is at least better than a solid Serie A player, right?

 

[Red_toad]

What statistic shows 1 inch makes a player better?

And since you're so pedantic about time. Bernard, Fraser, Torreira, Nampaly Mendy, and Atsu are all still in the PL. Britton just ended a 7 year PL career. Joe Allen still going. Maxi Moralez is shorter than Angel and had a lengthy career in Serie A. So the extra inch or two for Angel there means he is at least better than a solid Serie A player, right?

Try living in the real world. Look at the current premier league. Lad has to prove to be an exception.

 

[MikeKing]

What statistic shows 1 inch makes a player better?

And since you're so pedantic about time. Bernard, Fraser, Torreira, Nampaly Mendy, and Atsu are all still in the PL. Britton just ended a 7 year PL career. Joe Allen still going. Maxi Moralez is shorter than Angel and had a lengthy career in Serie A. So the extra inch or two for Angel there means he is at least better than a solid Serie A player, right?

But none of those players apply because they aren't as good as we expect Gomes to be.. which means.. that due to his size, he wont make it. I suppose.

 

[SteveW]

He's hardly played yet and people are dismissing him. Typical caf negativity.

 

[Cassidy]

Does that mean Martial isn’t physically ready or Jones? Or are they simply prone to the odd injury.
If injured you cannot prove you’re physically ready.

Exactly my point. The assertion that he isnt physically ready isnt true

 

[Sterling Archer]

What is it with those obsessed by stature, it's like a pre historic mentality that's held the English game back for decades and some are still fixated with it, there's umpteen examples of small in stature players that consistently outperform their larger team mates.

Let it go..............

Il use an example other than Messi, one that shone in this league Santi Cazorla
In fact il use one more, Gianfranco Zola
One more for the road Juninho

Yup

And in contrast, you have a player like Lukaku who for being the size he is, didn't make good enough use of it for us imo. Even Pogba for all his athleticism I feel should really be owning the field more...

 

[In Rainbows]

Try living in the real world. Look at the current premier league. Lad has to prove to be an exception.

And you still haven't explained how an extra inch or 3 helps him. For example, I can explain how Chong gaining more weight helps him. Since he's going to try and run past players, when he initially knocks the ball past a player, there is a half a second where you need to get in front of the defender and if the defender is faster than you, it makes it very hard to go past the defender. If the defender is stronger than you, they can push you away from the ball without committing a foul, which means you lose the dribbling battle with the defender.

Now explain how an extra inch or three inches helps him. The most you can say is that it means more likely he loses aerial duels with other midfielders. In other words, the way it negatively affects him is useless to Gomes' play style.

 

[Red_toad]

And you still haven't explained how an extra inch or 3 helps him. For example, I can explain how Chong gaining more weight helps him. Since he's going to try and run past players, when he initially knocks the ball past a player, there is a half a second where you need to get in front of the defender and if the defender is faster than you, it makes it very hard to go past the defender. If the defender is stronger than you, they can push you away from the ball without committing a foul, which means you lose the dribbling battle with the defender.

Now explain how an extra inch or three inches helps him. The most you can say is that it means more likely he loses aerial duels with other midfielders. In other words, the way it negatively affects him is useless to Gomes' play style.

I don’t need to explain it. Look at the league and football in general, it’s dominated by tall athletic players. There are obviously exceptions. Angel needs to stay fit and prove he’s an exception.

 

[In Rainbows]

I don’t need to explain it. Look at the league and football in general, it’s dominated by tall athletic players. There are obviously exceptions. Angel needs to stay fit and prove he’s an exception.

Why on earth do you not need to explain it?

Is the difference between Angel and someone like Scholes their height? Is that what we've reduced Scholes to? Obviously not. We can explain why Scholes was great and it has nothing to do with his height. It has to do with his passing ability, his shooting technique, his touch, his awareness, etc...

Seriously, in the hypothetical that Scholes was 2 inches shorter, how does it somehow make him worse?

 

[Red_toad]

Why on earth do you not need to explain it?

Is the difference between Angel and someone like Scholes their height? Is that what we've reduced Scholes to? Obviously not. We can explain why Scholes was great and it has nothing to do with his height. It has to do with his passing ability, his shooting technique, his touch, his awareness, etc...

Seriously, in the hypothetical that Scholes was 2 inches shorter, how does it somehow make him worse?

Why do I need to explain reality to you?

 

[limerickcitykid]

Try living in the real world. Look at the current premier league. Lad has to prove to be an exception.

I am living in the real world where I just named several players in the PL at Angel's height along with one inches shorter who has had a great career. Try living in the real world and learning about the players playing in it.

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

I don’t need to explain it. Look at the league and football in general, it’s dominated by tall athletic players. There are obviously exceptions. Angel needs to stay fit and prove he’s an exception.

I think your stumped mate.........there's absolutely no reason for his height to be an issue

Torreira at Arsenal how talls that lad

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

Once upon a time there was a big red machine , the big red machine was good because it had lots of parts that all contributed in their own way, it had big strong cogs that were full of strength and won headers, and it had little tiny cogs that were very good at passing and creating chances, it also had medium cogs that could run all day and tackle, but all the cogs contributed and made the big red machine work brilliantly as a collective..............

For the purpose of the story.....no cogs had to pass a height restriction test

 

[JJ12]

it’s not about what I think, it statistics. You picked a guy who played 20 years ago, so yes time is relevant.

I didn't pick him.

There's a number of short players playing now without an issue. If you're good enough then size won't matter

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Try living in the real world. Look at the current premier league. Lad has to prove to be an exception.

Dan James is 2cm taller than Gomes. Yet we bought James despite him having no PL experience. That is the real world

 

[Red_toad]

I didn't pick him.

There's a number of short players playing now without an issue. If you're good enough then size won't matter

sorry it wasn’t you who picked a player from 20 years ago who was 8cm taller. I do apologise.
But still United play in a league dominated by players taller than Angel, he needs to prove he can be an exception to the norm. 5ft 3 is very small for an elite footballer. Technically he’s very good, but thus far has looked too passive in the first team.
Had he not been so prone to injury this season he’d have gotten a lot more game time, but he does appear to pick up knocks at times when he’d get chances.

 

[Red_toad]

Dan James is 2cm taller than Gomes. Yet we bought James despite him having no PL experience. That is the real world

Difference between 1.7m and 1.6m isn’t 2cm in the real world.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Difference between 1.7m and 1.6m isn’t 2cm in the real world.

Angel isn't 1.6m in the real world

 

[Red_toad]

Angel isn't 1.6m in the real world

Sorry 161cm.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Sorry 161cm.

Isn't that either, in the real world.

 

[Adam-Utd]

What is in the real world?

 

[He'sRaldo]

For his height to not be an issue, he needs to have some other standout quality, preferrably physically. Messi and Aguero are extraordinarily strong and fast, Dan James is rapid and agile, David Silva is strong and intelligent, etc.

On the other hand, someone like Mata who is currently a baby on the pitch just isn't effective regardless of his technique and intelligence; previously when he still had pace and agility he bossed the league.


Gomes does seem to have good mobility so if he can translate that onto the pitch hopefully there should be no worries. In the preseason matches, he did turn a few defenders inside out, so there's definitely that physical ability there.

 

[Red_toad]

Isn't that either, in the real world.

Ok whatever it is on your planet is different to earth.

 

[sherrinford]

For his height to not be an issue, he needs to have some other standout quality, preferrably physically. Messi and Aguero are extraordinarily strong and fast, Dan James is rapid and agile, David Silva is strong and intelligent, etc.

On the other hand, someone like Mata who is currently a baby on the pitch just isn't effective regardless of his technique and intelligence; previously when he still had pace and agility he bossed the league.


Gomes does seem to have good mobility so if he can translate that onto the pitch hopefully there should be no worries. In the preseason matches, he did turn a few defenders inside out, so there's definitely that physical ability there.

This has nothing to do with height though. Virtually every player at the top level has some exceptional physical attributes.

Gomes is ridiculously sharp, agile and well balanced. He’s cut from the same cloth as Isco, Coutinho, David Silva, Xavi, Iniesta, Verratti, Thiago and Arthur Melo. Opponents struggle to get near these players because they are outstandanding physically, but it’s got nothing to do with their height.

 

[He'sRaldo]

This has nothing to do with height though.

The reason why you think so is that the players without height or other standout abilities generally don't play at the top level so you don't notice their deficiencies as much.

In fact, you said it yourself:

Virtually every player at the top level has some exceptional physical attributes.

Exactly my point.

Gomes is ridiculously sharp, agile and well balanced. He’s cut from the same cloth as Isco, Coutinho, David Silva, Xavi, Iniesta, Verratti, Thiago and Arthur Melo. Opponents struggle to get near these players because they are outstandanding physically, but it’s got nothing to do with their height.

Their center of gravity which allows them to turn so quickly without losing balance, as well as accelerate so well, has everything to do with their height. That's why a big yet agile player such as Pogba, Zlatan, Haaland, etc is such a big deal.

If they were simply short but didn't have those extra qualities, they wouldn't be playing top level.