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This may be the reason.Chelsea's youth players aren't really that young comparitively, here are their ages: Tomori 21, Abraham 22, Loftus-Cheek 23, Hudson-Odoi 18, Mason Mount 20.
Compare them to our kids: Gomes 19 (turned 19 in September), Greenwood 18 (turned 18 in October), B.Williams (19, also just turned 19 in September), Chong 19, James Garner 18.
In case you hadn't noticed, our youth are really fecking young compared to the ones Chelsea are playing (most of whom have years of first team experience already). Arsenal are more similiar but even then, they still beat us in age.
Maitland-Niles 22, Willock 20, Reiss-Nelson 19, Saka 18 (like Greenwood, only has recently turned 18).
This may be the reason.
Chong I don't think will make it though. Apart from the Inter game like Gomez he hasn't impressed me since. Gomez has shown flashes.
It's gonna be hard for any of them to do well with our current tactical setup and manager though let's face it. Absolute no attacking plan atm. Needs to change in January at the latest.
Luckily Tuanzebe looks like a beast but maybe thats because we have a decent defence locked down for him already unlike our attack.
I think it depends on the player and their situation. For example, I've always been against a Gomes loan because of his small stature, he would have a bias against him from dinosaur managers. Greenwood is another that I'm against because I think he can develop at United due to being a technically gifted player. I've wanted an overseas loan for Chong so that he can go up against men, but at the same time be protected by refs more so than he would by English refs.That and he's 21, having played for Aston Villa last season and helping them get promoted to the premier league. Likewise Mount and Abraham have cut their teeth on loan in the championship and have taken that form into the premier league. This would be the argument as to why we should send young players out on loan instead of having them stick around and not play much
They weren't those types of players from the start. Frenkie started off as a 10, and I'm pretty sure the same is true of Modric.
That and he's 21, having played for Aston Villa last season and helping them get promoted to the premier league. Likewise Mount and Abraham have cut their teeth on loan in the championship and have taken that form into the premier league. This would be the argument as to why we should send young players out on loan instead of having them stick around and not play much
Chelsea's youth players aren't really that young comparitively, here are their ages: Tomori 21, Abraham 22, Loftus-Cheek 23, Hudson-Odoi 18, Mason Mount 20.
Compare them to our kids: Gomes 19 (turned 19 in September), Greenwood 18 (turned 18 in October), B.Williams (19, also just turned 19 in September), Chong 19, James Garner 18.
In case you hadn't noticed, our youth are really fecking young compared to the ones Chelsea are playing (most of whom have years of first team experience already). Arsenal are more similiar but even then, they still beat us in age.
Maitland-Niles 22, Willock 20, Reiss-Nelson 19, Saka 18 (like Greenwood, only has recently turned 18).
I thought we were just talking about youth graduates tbf, I haven’t been following the whole threadYou, importantly, forgot Martinelli, who is 18.
I don't think anyone expects him to dominate, people want to see him more often than the odd appearance here and there considering our options currently.
Bernado Silva 13/14 - 38 games 7 goals 7 assists
Juan Mata 08/09 - 38 games 11 goals 17 assists
The others you mentioned are more CM / box to box players so you wouldn't expect them to be creating like Gomes is expected.
I am not one who is saying unleash Gomes because personally I do not think he is ready to be a regular but I thought I put stats of the other 2.
Also, you cannot control which team you play for at age, it isn't like United are a big club at the moment anyway. Players coming through would be expected to start for clubs at mid table e.g Declan Rice.
They’d rather have months of crap average players huffing and puffing than give the young lads a few games in a row to see if they can settle.People on the caf are stupid. Hasn't that become obvious over the last few months.
Would tend to agree if the experienced players were performing above anything other than relegation standards themselves. To expect a dramatic turnaround in players we have seen woefully disappoint time after time is foolhardy. The time to improve the squad is in January.The team is not far away from slipping in a relegation battle. All the talk about starting youngsters is naive, imo.
The team is not far away from slipping in a relegation battle. All the talk about starting youngsters is naive, imo.
Yea youngsters are the reason why we are in this position.
Thoughless response. My post didn't imply that the youngsters are the reason for being in this position, but that experimenting with them and letting them learn how to cope in the PL might make the position even worse. The starting XI is already the youngest team in the PL or thereabouts.
People thought we didn't need Lukaku because he was a donkey. Well, we miss his goals against average/poor teams. They say now we don't need Mata, Lingard....Well, the situation could get worse with starting youngsters instead. Relegation battle is not far away.
Mata and Lingard have the same stats for last season and this combined reach with 4 goals and 2 assists. That is dreadful for a attacker for Man Utd. Mata does not have the pace and Lingard is just lacking in ability. Giving Gomes a chance or pushing Pogba into the number 10 role could hardly be worse.Thoughless response. My post didn't imply that the youngsters are the reason for being in this position, but that experimenting with them and letting them learn how to cope in the PL might make the position even worse. The starting XI is already the youngest team in the PL or thereabouts.
People thought we didn't need Lukaku because he was a donkey. Well, we miss his goals against average/poor teams. They say now we don't need Mata, Lingard....Well, the situation could get worse with starting youngsters instead. Relegation battle is not far away.
Mata and Lingard have the same stats for last season and this combined reach with 4 goals and 2 assists. That is dreadful for a attacker for Man Utd. Mata does not have the pace and Lingard is just lacking in ability. Giving Gomes a chance or pushing Pogba into the number 10 role could hardly be worse.
I know this theory. And I'm not convinced.
I know this theory. And I'm not convinced.
Thoughless response. My post didn't imply that the youngsters are the reason for being in this position, but that experimenting with them and letting them learn how to cope in the PL might make the position even worse. The starting XI is already the youngest team in the PL or thereabouts.
People thought we didn't need Lukaku because he was a donkey. Well, we miss his goals against average/poor teams. They say now we don't need Mata, Lingard....Well, the situation could get worse with starting youngsters instead. Relegation battle is not far away.
This is hardly a theory, it's just the plain facts.I know this theory. And I'm not convinced.
Chelsea's youth players aren't really that young comparitively, here are their ages: Tomori 21, Abraham 22, Loftus-Cheek 23, Hudson-Odoi 18, Mason Mount 20.
Compare them to our kids: Gomes 19 (turned 19 in September), Greenwood 18 (turned 18 in October), B.Williams (19, also just turned 19 in September), Chong 19, James Garner 18.
In case you hadn't noticed, our youth are really fecking young compared to the ones Chelsea are playing (most of whom have years of first team experience already). Arsenal are more similiar but even then, they still beat us in age.
Maitland-Niles 22, Willock 20, Reiss-Nelson 19, Saka 18 (like Greenwood, only has recently turned 18).
This is spot on. United's equivalent youngsters are Rashford 21, McTominay 22, Tuanzebe 21 and Pereira 23 who are all regulars in the match day squad. There's also Lingard (mental age 16).
United's "chosen 4" of Greenwood, Gomes, Garner and Chong are just too young and inexperienced to be regular first team players, especially when you consider the inexperience already in the first 11.
The whole "Gomes needs a consistent run in the first team as a number 10" stuff is just pie in the sky. As mentioned above, Modric and Bernardo Silva both played top level European football before moving to England but still played at least a season out wide when moving to the EPL to adapt to the intensity.
But Angel Gomes who is years behind the levels they were at physically and can only hope to reach the level of Modric or Silva one day doesn't need that period of adaptation?
He's getting chances. More than Phil "Best player Pep has ever seen" Foden. If he plays well enough, he will get more games. I think it's far more likely that United will sign a new 10 though. He's not ready to play yet and Mata and Lingard just aren't cutting it.
This is hardly a theory, it's just the plain facts.
Mata and Lingard have the same stats for last season and this combined reach with 4 goals and 2 assists. That is dreadful for a attacker for Man Utd. Mata does not have the pace and Lingard is just lacking in ability. Giving Gomes a chance or pushing Pogba into the number 10 role could hardly be worse.
I really like Gomes, in fact he is my favourite of the up and coming players, and I really hope he develops well. I also love that Solskjær is making so much space for the young players at the club, and I’m ready to waive a year of champions league if need be to see it happen. Not everyone’s cup of tea, but hey. I read about the Babes when I was a kid, and if football is not romantic, well, then it’s nothing.
I was disappointed not to see Gomes earlier in the season after his good preseason, but when he has played, I see the point better. End product notwithstanding, both Mata and Lingard, even when playing bad, does a lot of things important to give the attacking play a chance to click. Basic things like seeing when to move where. Gomes lacks a bit of that yet. He needs time, and playing time, to learn it. But it’s not a thing he’ll learn if the players around him doesn’t know how to make their play gel.
One important thing to me: When we’re struggling, like we are, the level and amount of criticism that surfaces from media, supporters and ‘supporters’, are unlike anything we’ve seen in history.
Fergie’s first batch of fledglings didn’t swim, they generally sank (Beardsmore, Sharpe, Martin, Robins) and I think Ferguson knew he had to protect the next ones (Giggs, class of 92, etc) better from pressure and public exposure.
Today, Lingard will have seen a thousand vitriolic tweets abouthis role in destroying the glorious club that is United. That does things to a young persons confidence. If we want Gomes to increase his confidence (which he needs to), he’ll need protection.
Modric and Silva at 19 years old, if they were at this United this season and Mata and Lingard were playing like they have for the past 2 seasons would also deserve to be given a good 10 games this season to get them ready for the next season
If they are doing it right, moving to the right places at the right time how come they are so uninvolved and uneffective?
We're talking about statistically the worst 2 AMs in the league to have played 2 matches or more. They arent doing anything right
It's just the internet age, and the strange things it does ton people's brains. If Gomes were a new signing, we'd sensibly be saying to ease him in gently, because the premier league is totally different from (x) league he came from.
If it were under Fergie, we'd get glimpses of him for 15 minutes at the end of a cup game we'd already won, like renowned academy player Paul Pogba. And he'd be playing alongside a team of seasoned pros fighting for their spots. Not retirees like Matic, Young and Mata.
From all I've seen and all everyone at the club is saying, they know Gomes could be the real deal and are acting accordingly (cept that contract). Its our fault for demanding him to play before hes ready, and then judging him for not being ready.
Virtually 0 players are getting big minutes at top clubs at his age, and those that do are physically gifted. Rooney, Ronaldo, Owen hell even Rashford. Scholesy was like 21 when he was introduced.
Give him time ffs.
Only Saka and CHO are his age or younger.CHO, Mount, Tomori, Reece James, Saka, Guendouzi, Nelson, Willock, TAA.
That's just off the top of my head from the clubs around us. There's plenty his age being trusted with minutes.
CHO, Mount, Tomori, Reece James, Saka, Guendouzi, Nelson, Willock, TAA.
That's just off the top of my head from the clubs around us. There's plenty his age being trusted with minutes.
Chelsea's youngsters have proven themselves on loan, while ours still haven't. It's no shame to admit that as of right now, they're better. Chelsea's academy is the best right now. Still, a couple of ours have really high potential.
Abraham
Tomori
Mount
James
Hudson Odoi
Mceachran
Gilmour
Lamptey
Rashford
Tuanzebe
Greenwood
Gomes
Garner
Williams
Laird
Ours need to develop the way Chelsea's youngsters have before it's an apt comparison.
He’s not built like a s***house like McT so people will doubt that option but honestly I would rather watch him try & fail then be subjected to Mata starting again.So what would people say Gomes best position is?
With the team lacking creativity, and somebody who can keep possession in midfield and knit play, Pogba needs to be played as the advanced midfielder it's clear as day, so that leaves 2 deeper roles in midfield, can Gomes play in one of them that's the question facing Ole.
Would this work
...........Pogba
Mctominay...Gomes
For me it's the only real option we have left to try given the players at Oles disposal
Mata, Matic, Fred and Lingaard just aren't good enough and aren't performing.
He's played 3 games already and it's early October. I'd be amazed if he doesn't make at least 10 appearances this season.
You’re simplifying it. Lingard is doing some things wrong because he is limited, he is doing some more things wrong because he is out of form, he is doing yet other things wrong because the interplay relations aren’t working atm, and he is doing somethings right that you ignore in order to paint a black and white picture.
His limitations are little to do with at this point, his form is probably much down to confidence which can turn fairly quickly oftentimes, the interplay makes anyone in that position do things, it needs a team solution, and the right things you just have to look for. The coaches knows that he has our highest pass completion in the opposition half, and even though they are safe passes, it is possibly a necessity to build on a bit of pass security if we’re going to establish some team play. Likewise with the pressing patterns. They aren’t functioning at the moment, and it’s a team thing.
Gomes might be better than Lingard atm, to be honest I don’t think he has yet, but Lingard may have the best short term potential when it comes to get the play flowing again - which again might be a prerequisite for Gomes to have a good environment to learn in.
You could say, of course, if Gomes is as good as Lingard on current level, why not let him get game time even if he struggles. I disagree: with the level of criticism, scepticism and negativism around right now, Gomes could actually be harmed in his development by playing too much now, Lingard is not as big a los and should also handle it better.
