[Ballache]

Needs to get on the ball more, Gomes is an advanced 8 not a 10. I don't know if it's tactics or maybe nerves but he was too far up the pitch for my liking.
I personally loved him in that deeper role he had with the u19s.

 

[Treble]

Any big club has talented youngsters but not many fans of other clubs, at least on here, over hype them to such an extent.

Imagine that Greenwood had a game like Martinelli last night. Would have been declared as the new Messi on here. Or that Gomes scored a goal like Foden's in the U21 Euros by dribbling past 5 players.

Right now Arsenal's Saka and Martinelli look more advanced in their development and much closer to the standards of top professional football. It might be because our team is poor in attack and the youngsters struggle because of it. But Saka and Martinelli look also quicker and stronger which has nothing to do with the team's play.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

His Europa League performance argues otherwise.

Yesterday was a Europa League performance... And he wasn't great against Astana either, people just got a bit giddy with it being his first start.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Any big club has talented youngsters but not many fans of other clubs, at least on here, over hype them to such an extent.

Imagine that Greenwood had a game like Martinelli last night. Would have been declared as the new Messi on here. Or that Gomes scored a goal like Foden's in the U21 Euros by dribbling past 5 players.

Right now Arsenal's Saka and Martinelli look more advanced in their development and much closer to the standards of top professional football. It might be because our team is poor in attack and the youngsters struggle because of it. But Saka and Martinelli look also quicker and stronger which has nothing to do with the team's play.

I think that our dysfunctional team and the pressure on Greenwood in particular doesn't help. Ole's been talking him up big time and with our lack of goals a lot of people are expecting big things for him. I agree that he doesn't look ready, nor does Gomes. The physical aspect of Gomes has long concerned me.

I'd also add that the pitch didn't help. I do believe its a big thing as it was an old school astro and I watched Oldham play on one back in the day and take a big advantage into every game. The home players are adjusted to the pace of it and just basic control of the ball. Oldham fans used to acknowledge that it was their not so secret weapon. Plenty of big sides struggled on that pitch.

Compare that to the Arsenal game where it was a beautiful playing surface with the opposition naively open a lot of the time.

Not taking anything away from Martinelli, the first goal in particular was brilliant, so unlikely to score from that position with a header.

 

[It's B Rubble]

These are the comments that crack me up the most. A talented young kid getting much needed minutes has one poor game and is written off along with the rest. I mean, it's just pathetic.

Half of the caf are made out of the Astro turf we just played on. One guy saying he’s crap and hopefully we didn’t renew, another saying NO MORE MINUTES FOR THE YOUNG ONES waaa waaa waaa. Clearly they’re being coached like shit and hopefully this gets addressed ASAP. The kids are the ones with the cajones at the moment to try something.

 

[Treble]

I think that our dysfunctional team and the pressure on Greenwood in particular doesn't help. Ole's been talking him up big time and with our lack of goals a lot of people are expecting big things for him. I agree that he doesn't look ready, nor does Gomes. The physical aspect of Gomes has long concerned me.

I'd also add that the pitch didn't help. I do believe its a big thing as it was an old school astro and I watched Oldham play on one back in the day and take a big advantage into every game. The home players are adjusted to the pace of it and just basic control of the ball. Oldham fans used to acknowledge that it was their not so secret weapon. Plenty of big sides struggled on that pitch.

Compare that to the Arsenal game where it was a beautiful playing surface with the opposition naively open a lot of the time.

Not taking anything away from Martinelli, the first goal in particular was brilliant, so unlikely to score from that position with a header.

I agree, expecting so much from the youngsters so early might hamper their natural development. Both Greenwood and Gomes might become wonderful players as they are obviously talented, especially Mason who is incredibly two-footed and a terrific finisher, but they have to be properly nurtured.

 

[In Rainbows]

I think that our dysfunctional team and the pressure on Greenwood in particular doesn't help. Ole's been talking him up big time and with our lack of goals a lot of people are expecting big things for him. I agree that he doesn't look ready, nor does Gomes. The physical aspect of Gomes has long concerned me.

I'd also add that the pitch didn't help. I do believe its a big thing as it was an old school astro and I watched Oldham play on one back in the day and take a big advantage into every game. The home players are adjusted to the pace of it and just basic control of the ball. Oldham fans used to acknowledge that it was their not so secret weapon. Plenty of big sides struggled on that pitch.

Compare that to the Arsenal game where it was a beautiful playing surface with the opposition naively open a lot of the time.

Not taking anything away from Martinelli, the first goal in particular was brilliant, so unlikely to score from that position with a header.

Gomes had a poor performance, but it had nothing to do with the physical side. It had to do with him not getting on the ball enough, and then not being assertive while on the ball.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Gomes had a poor performance, but it had nothing to do with the physical side. It had to do with him not getting on the ball enough, and then not being assertive while on the ball.

I disagree if you don't have the strength to hold your attacker off then you just end up popping the ball back to where it came from. It was a problem last night with the whole front line and a big reason why we offered nothing in that department. Against deep defences this is a problem. @Treble mentioned Saka at Arseanl, when he was up against Young he was able to battle hi for strength and initiate attacks at times because of it.

My bigger concern with him though is that he gets overrun easily and seems to gas in the second half a bit. I think he'll be one of those players that is hard to fit in the systems that are being used these days where there's no room for traditional number 10s.

 

[We've Won It All]

If you're weak in stature, you have to use your body well and that is often a natural trait. You need to have a feel for people around you with special awareness. It's a very difficult trait to work on. Think David Silva.

Unfortunately, I don't think Gomes has it. Without it, you can't play with your back to goal which players who want to play in pockets have to do.

Obviously I am not writing him off but his performance yesterday was awful, like the rest of 'em.

 

[In Rainbows]

I disagree if you don't have the strength to hold your attacker off then you just end up popping the ball back to where it came from. It was a problem last night with the whole front line and a big reason why we offered nothing in that department. Against deep defences this is a problem. @Treble mentioned Saka at Arseanl, when he was up against Young he was able to battle hi for strength and initiate attacks at times because of it.

I didn't see that at all. Where is the evidence of that? And by evidence I mean evidence that clearly differs from the other stronger players. We didn't offer anything in the final third because Gomes simply passed it back whenever he did receive it, and he tends to make runs and nobody can pick out those runs in crowded spaces. This led to him being a bystander. Surely you can't use him getting fouled as evidence or him fouling others as evidence? That's the only evidence I can think of, none of which point to him being overly bothered by physical battles.

Maybe you mean the situations where a ball was punted in his vicinity? In which case, a short player like him will always lose out just like Scholes would lose out.

Gomes isn't a player who will just run at players. He's never been that kind of player. The only time he dribbles is on counter attacks, and on the rare occasions where he's in the final third where he's facing a defender, but those situations are rare.

 

[RedIan]

Only saw 2nd half but i focussed on the young players. Whilst the full back Williams impressed me this kid didnt. Nothing seemed to come off for him. Jury’s out

 

[Acole9]

Gone backwards since he hit the side netting against Yeovil in the cup.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I didn't see that at all. Where is the evidence of that? And by evidence I mean evidence that clearly differs from the other stronger players. We didn't offer anything in the final third because Gomes simply passed it back whenever he did receive it, and he tends to make runs and nobody can pick out those runs in crowded spaces. This led to him being a bystander. Surely you can't use him getting fouled as evidence or him fouling others as evidence? That's the only evidence I can think of, none of which point to him being overly bothered by physical battles.

Maybe you mean the situations where a ball was punted in his vicinity? In which case, a short player like him will always lose out just like Scholes would lose out.

Gomes isn't a player who will just run at players. He's never been that kind of player. The only time he dribbles is on counter attacks, and on the rare occasions where he's in the final third where he's facing a defender, but those situations are rare.

It's called holding the ball up so other players can move forward into better positions to aid the attack. All our forward line spent the evening either passing the ball straight back to the passer or failing to control it. Rashford held it up a little better when he came on.

 

[limerickcitykid]

 

[ash_86]

Second one was a bullet.

 

[Asger]

Great 2nd goal.

 

[432JuanMata]

Weird to see him not get on the bench for a lot of games this season as I see him as our best young player out of the academy

 

[Based Adnan]

He's the best 10 in the team. Last year of his contract and shitters like Lingard and Mata are playing over him. Cannot blame him in the slightest if he leaves. Every single big European club would be in for him.

 

[Stacks]

He's the best 10 in the team. Last year of his contract and shitters like Lingard and Mata are playing over him. Cannot blame him in the slightest if he leaves. Every single big European club would be in for him.

You must be his agent or manager. Only way to explain your absurd statements

 

[mattsville]

Should be rotated with Pogba in an advanced attacking position, he is a very talented player IF we go out with the right attacking mentality.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

You must be his agent or manager. Only way to explain your absurd statements

Well he's almost certainly the best dribbler, only thing Mata has over him is experience and better set piece delivery and Lingard only betters him by being a few inches taller and running around a bit more, so it's not really that outrageous is it?

 

[Member 117152]

Hasn’t impressed me at all in a high intensity first team match after the great pre-season he had, I’m hoping that changes obviously.

He has world class technique for sure but you need more than that to be a top level Premier League player. I hope he finds his niche in the first team.

Greenwood is more certain to become a top professional despite the fact I personally prefer Angels style of play. Flair players are always a bit hit and miss in top sides.

 

[Mr PG]

Whisper it..... none of the youngsters are good enough or look anything special if we’re being honest. Both arsenal and Chelsea have much better youngsters than we do and now I see why Ole is so reluctant to play them.

 

[SteveW]

People doubting Angel haven't followed his career. He took the same few months to adapt to u23s football then found his feet and killed it. He's still very young and will take time to find his feet like almost all young players.

That second goal against the Italy should be enough to see he has the talent. He's a little gem.

 

[NWRed]

Hasn’t impressed me at all in a high intensity first team match after the great pre-season he had, I’m hoping that changes obviously.

He has world class technique for sure but you need more than that to be a top level Premier League player. I hope he finds his niche in the first team.

Greenwood is more certain to become a top professional despite the fact I personally prefer Angels style of play. Flair players are always a bit hit and miss in top sides.

What Steve said is correct, he just needs time to adjust. He also needs to play 10, he's not a winger.

 

[In Rainbows]

Whisper it..... none of the youngsters are good enough or look anything special if we’re being honest. Both arsenal and Chelsea have much better youngsters than we do and now I see why Ole is so reluctant to play them.

I can see why you would think Chelsea do, but why on earth would you think Arsenal do too? Arsenal is one of the most overrated academies around. I think it's quite clear they're 3rd behind Chelsea and Fulham in London. They're behind United, City, and Liverpool in England too. So I would have them around 6th.

Ask any England youth fan, and they would rate Greenwood, and Gomes above any Arsenal youngster. Think Chris Willock was the only player on their level in reputation, and he turned out worse than his brother Joe Willock. Any youth success they have right now is because their players are older and more physically developed at this stage in their careers.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I think he needs to sign a long term contract if he wants more chances in the first team. Especially as he hasn’t exactly looked great when he has had a chance.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Flair players are always a bit hit and miss in top sides.

Will need to join a top side for us to tell.

 

[Bestietom]

I think he needs to sign a long term contract if he wants more chances in the first team. Especially as he hasn’t exactly looked great when he has had a chance.

He hasn't had a decent chance with us yet.
He plays through the middle not out wide.
He needs to play consecutively in his proper position to really excel.
He needs more good skillful players around him to really shine.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Gone backwards since he hit the side netting against Yeovil in the cup.

 

[andersj]

I'm sorry, but people are stupid if they expect him to be dominating or great consistently for us at 18/19.

Where was Bernardo Silva at the same age? Juan Mata? Paul Scholes? Xavi Hernandez? Luka Modric? Frenkie de Jong?

Very few players are ready to be play regularly at that age. Not even some of the biggest talents. Several of them at smaller clubs, in easier leagues or at a time when the level was (probably) lower.

 

[SteveW]

I'm sorry, but people are stupid if they expect him to be dominating or great consistently for us at 18/19.

Where was Bernardo Silva at the same age? Juan Mata? Paul Scholes? Xavi Hernandez? Luka Modric? Frenkie de Jong?

Very few players are ready to be play regularly at that age. Not even some of the biggest talents. Several of them at smaller clubs, in easier leagues or at a time when the level was (probably) lower.

People on the caf are stupid. Hasn't that become obvious over the last few months.

 

[Adcuth]

There any other highlights from yesterday besides the goals?

 

[Cassidy]

Whisper it..... none of the youngsters are good enough or look anything special if we’re being honest. Both arsenal and Chelsea have much better youngsters than we do and now I see why Ole is so reluctant to play them.

Their youngsters would likely look poor under Ole..

 

[romufc]

I'm sorry, but people are stupid if they expect him to be dominating or great consistently for us at 18/19.

Where was Bernardo Silva at the same age? Juan Mata? Paul Scholes? Xavi Hernandez? Luka Modric? Frenkie de Jong?

Very few players are ready to be play regularly at that age. Not even some of the biggest talents. Several of them at smaller clubs, in easier leagues or at a time when the level was (probably) lower.

I don't think anyone expects him to dominate, people want to see him more often than the odd appearance here and there considering our options currently.

Bernado Silva 13/14 - 38 games 7 goals 7 assists
Juan Mata 08/09 - 38 games 11 goals 17 assists

The others you mentioned are more CM / box to box players so you wouldn't expect them to be creating like Gomes is expected.

I am not one who is saying unleash Gomes because personally I do not think he is ready to be a regular but I thought I put stats of the other 2.

Also, you cannot control which team you play for at age, it isn't like United are a big club at the moment anyway. Players coming through would be expected to start for clubs at mid table e.g Declan Rice.

 

[Oldyella]

Their youngsters would likely look poor under Ole..

Yup.

 

[JJ12]

Whisper it..... none of the youngsters are good enough or look anything special if we’re being honest. Both arsenal and Chelsea have much better youngsters than we do and now I see why Ole is so reluctant to play them.

2nd time on 2 pages. Stop making a twat of yourself and boring us at the same time.

 

[In Rainbows]

I don't think anyone expects him to dominate, people want to see him more often than the odd appearance here and there considering our options currently.

Bernado Silva 13/14 - 38 games 7 goals 7 assists
Juan Mata 08/09 - 38 games 11 goals 17 assists

The others you mentioned are more CM / box to box players so you wouldn't expect them to be creating like Gomes is expected.

I am not one who is saying unleash Gomes because personally I do not think he is ready to be a regular but I thought I put stats of the other 2.
.

They weren't those types of players from the start. Frenkie started off as a 10, and I'm pretty sure the same is true of Modric.

 

[Ekeke]

Even if he was playing most weeks, in the 10 position instead of on the left... So what if he was having a tough time and not always looking amazing?

Lingard and Mata have been the worst AMs in the league this season. Whats the upside to playing them when they're playing shit compared to playing a young player who we hope will eventually do better?

I dont see one. If we're going to play someone in the 10 role other than Pogba, Gomes should be playing

 

[AltiUn]

Whisper it..... none of the youngsters are good enough or look anything special if we’re being honest. Both arsenal and Chelsea have much better youngsters than we do and now I see why Ole is so reluctant to play them.

Chelsea's youth players aren't really that young comparitively, here are their ages: Tomori 21, Abraham 22, Loftus-Cheek 23, Hudson-Odoi 18, Mason Mount 20.

Compare them to our kids: Gomes 19 (turned 19 in September), Greenwood 18 (turned 18 in October), B.Williams (19, also just turned 19 in September), Chong 19, James Garner 18.

In case you hadn't noticed, our youth are really fecking young compared to the ones Chelsea are playing (most of whom have years of first team experience already). Arsenal are more similiar but even then, they still beat us in age.

Maitland-Niles 22, Willock 20, Reiss-Nelson 19, Saka 18 (like Greenwood, only has recently turned 18).