[Chaky_Best]

Same hype as Rashford and Mc Tominay.

Just because he's from the club he should be better than the rest ?

If he was that special Ole would have played him more than 1 game in pre season.

Only hype

 

[LVGSdive]

He’s actually 18. Turns 19 at the end of the month.

Yes you are correct. His 19th birthday is this Saturday.

Ole give him the birthday present he really wants with a place in the starting line up

 

[Cassidy]

Same hype as Rashford and Mc Tominay.

Just because he's from the club he should be better than the rest ?

If he was that special Ole would have played him more than 1 game in pre season.

Only hype

Have you watched him before you make such comments. Or is Ole the second coming now and everything he does is now right?

 

[Bestietom]

How were we wrong? The notion that a youngster is inherently inferior player to an experienced one is incorrect. There's no guarantee that Lingard will out perform Gomes and hence we have bring the latter on , only when there's nothing to lose. It's all very subjective and depends on the two alternatives. The way our attack has performed over the years, I have little qualms about throwing in big talents into home games. That's how they'll improve and you never know, they may just show up some seniors. Surely, they're knocking on the door of the 1st team becuase they have lots of ability?

As I stated we have some quality young players, and we would all like to see them get their chance, but bring them in slowly from the bench until they prove that the are ready. Ole and his coaches know that these young men are good enough, but if they were to have a bad start it could ruin their whole career. Slowly is the best way.

 

[Bestietom]

CM is where our weaknesses have been. We needed to buy a CM in this summer window. It is inexplicable why we didn’t, other than the Glazers are tightfisted. Since we didn’t, we only have the likes of Mata, Fred, Pereira and Lingard as CM and none of them are good enough.

Angel is the only player with potential to fill some of the gap. The only reason I can imagine he is not playing is because he hasn’t signed his contract or because Ole doesn’t actually trust youth. Either way he is our only hope so they need to sort themselves out or Man Utd will become even less worth following than it has already sadly become. The Glazers will see a further contraction of its valuation.

I agree, We need a couple of midfielders in January. We are a couple of injuries away from disaster, say if Pogba and Mctominay got injured.

 

[Cassidy]

As I stated we have some quality young players, and we would all like to see them get their chance, but bring them in slowly from the bench until they prove that the are ready. Ole and his coaches know that these young men are good enough, but if they were to have a bad start it could ruin their whole career. Slowly is the best way.

You can bring them in slowly from the bench if they don’t even make the bench in the case of Gomes

It was always my opinion that renewing Mata was a mistake and I have seen nothing yet to go against that

 

[Treble]

This notion that you lose nothing from experimenting with youngsters is utterly wrong. Imagine that you play them and the results aren't good. What happens then? Persist with them and languish in mid-table? Or drop them and appologise to the experienced players and beg them to save your ass? How much time will you give the youngsters to prove themselves whithout writing the season off? Ole would be a laughing stock if he plays the youngsters and makes United a midtable team. There is a hierarchy in the team. To drop an experienced player and replace him with a kid is very risky. If you do it and the kid is poor, you are finished as a manager.

 

[JJ12]

Same hype as Rashford and Mc Tominay.

Just because he's from the club he should be better than the rest ?

If he was that special Ole would have played him more than 1 game in pre season.

Only hype

I hope he's as promising as those 2 mentioned.

 

[nyanza]

This notion that you lose nothing from experimenting with youngsters is utterly wrong. Imagine that you play them and the results aren't good. What happens then? Persist with them and languish in mid-table? Or drop them and appologise to the experienced players and beg them to save your ass? How much time will you give the youngsters to prove themselves whithout writing the season off? Ole would be a laughing stock if he plays the youngsters and makes United a midtable team. There is a hierarchy in the team. You can't just take an experienced player off and replace him with a kid. If you do it and the kid is poor, you are finished as a manager.

Ole has it pretty tough, doesn't he? Other than actual football and results he seems to be judged pretty harshly based on giving playing time to like 5 players with virtually no PL experience (and most of them any at all at men level) - Gomes, Greenwood, Garner, Tuanzebe and now I'm reading in the Brandom Williams thread about how he should leave if he doesn't play him over Young. It's actually ridiculous, that amount of youngsters from one group rarely develops to top team level, let alone delivering with their first involvements. This is just bound to end in Mcnair/Blackett/Borthwick-Jackson way looking at some people's expectations towards the boys. Pereira looked outstanding at youth level, even did very well with Valencia as well. Now everyone's calling him useless. Same with Mctominay. Showed a lot of improvement, fought his way into the first eleven and after 2 questionable appearances the tone quickly changed.

Was he supposed to say this is not his team and he will never play young players so he doesn't get shit about this?

 

[SteveW]

Same hype as Rashford and Mc Tominay.

Just because he's from the club he should be better than the rest ?

If he was that special Ole would have played him more than 1 game in pre season.

Only hype

If he's at their level he should be playing.

 

[steve zizou]

How are we on page 45 already??

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

This notion that you lose nothing from experimenting with youngsters is utterly wrong. Imagine that you play them and the results aren't good. What happens then? Persist with them and languish in mid-table? Or drop them and appologise to the experienced players and beg them to save your ass? How much time will you give the youngsters to prove themselves whithout writing the season off? Ole would be a laughing stock if he plays the youngsters and makes United a midtable team. There is a hierarchy in the team. To drop an experienced player and replace him with a kid is very risky. If you do it and the kid is poor, you are finished as a manager.

Is there anything worse than playing a youngster over a player like Lingard (4 league goals 2 assists) & Mata (3 league goals 2 assists)?

 

[Treble]

Is there anything worse than playing a youngster over a player like Lingard (4 league goals 2 assists) & Mata (3 league goals 2 assists)?

How long would you persist with playing youngsters over experienced players if the results aren't good and United are 8th-12th in the table? Is the purpose of United's existence to develop players rather than compete for trophies?

Lingard is one of the hardest working players in this team and suits the high-pressing and fast counter-attacking tactics. He was a regular starter for England in Russia and didn't look worse than Sterling there. If you play Lingard in the U-23 competition, he would look like Maradona there, the gap in quality between youth level and the PL is that big.

 

[Smores]

This notion that you lose nothing from experimenting with youngsters is utterly wrong. Imagine that you play them and the results aren't good. What happens then? Persist with them and languish in mid-table? Or drop them and appologise to the experienced players and beg them to save your ass? How much time will you give the youngsters to prove themselves whithout writing the season off? Ole would be a laughing stock if he plays the youngsters and makes United a midtable team. There is a hierarchy in the team. To drop an experienced player and replace him with a kid is very risky. If you do it and the kid is poor, you are finished as a manager.

Let's not be overly dramatic. No one's talking about replacing all seniors with youth at once we're talking about giving an 18 year old some minutes over a senior player who is a proven failure. You rotate them and let them compete.

You'd think we'd never integrated youth into the team before.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

How long would you persist with playing youngsters over experienced players if the results aren't good and United are 8th-12th in the table? Is the purpose of United's existence to develop players rather than compete for trophies?

Lingard is one of the hardest working players in this team and suits the high-pressing and fast counter-attacking tactics. He was a regular starter for England in Russia and didn't look worse than Sterling there. If you play Lingard in the U-23 competition, he would look like Maradona there, the gap in quality between youth level and the PL is that big.

The same question that I would like to ask how long would you persist with playing Lingard / Mata over more talented & hungry players if the results aren't good and United finish outside top 4 again like last season?

Gomes already look like Maradona playing in U-23 comp. He rarely even feature in U23's team anymore.

 

[Treble]

Let's not be overly dramatic. No one's talking about replacing all seniors with youth at once we're talking about giving an 18 year old some minutes over a senior player who is a proven failure. You rotate them and let them compete.

You'd think we'd never integrated youth into the team before.

He introduced a 17 y.o. to change the game. How many youngsters should he play to please people?

Bad results lead to depseration and desperation to seriously inflated expectations about youngish saviours.

 

[foolsgold]

It's worth remembering our U23s play in the second division after being relegated two years ago.

It's a massive jump from 2nd tier age football to the premier league, let's give them a run in the league cup and sprinkle one or two in the uefa cup and see how they go

 

[Treble]

The same question that I would like to ask how long would you persist with playing Lingard / Mata over more talented & hungry players if the results aren't good and United finish outside top 4 again like last season?

Gomes already look like Maradona playing in U-23 comp. He rarely even feature in U23's team anymore.

Except he doesn't. Daft exaggerations would take you nowhere.

 

[Treble]

It's worth remembering our U23s play in the second division after being relegated two years ago.

It's a massive jump from 2nd tier age football to the premier league, let's give them a run in the league cup and sprinkle one or two in the uefa cup and see how they go

Basically, they play against shit young teams and are asked to perform at a completelt different level better than English internationals. It's like going from the 150th best league in the world to the very best league and make a difference there. Ole's job is not to experiment and find a jem but to win a CL spot and get us back to the top.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Except he doesn't. Daft exaggerations would take you nowhere.

Sorry correction, he played like Messi against grown men Rotherham and that's why he rarely features with U23 team anymore.

 

[Treble]

Sorry correction, he played like Messi against grown men Rotherham and that's why he rarely features with U23 team anymore.

Ok, hope you are right and Ole will play him soon. Think he'll get a chance in EL and other cup games anyway.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Ok, hope you are right and Ole will play him soon. Think he'll get a chance in EL and other cup games anyway.

Right for what? Our discussion was started by my question:

Is there anything worse than playing a youngster over a player like Lingard (4 league goals 2 assists) & Mata (3 league goals 2 assists)?

I haven't receive any direct answer regarding this one.

 

[In Rainbows]

It’s gas the way people can make themselves believe in whatever completely hypothetical scenario, no matter how unlikely, best fits their agenda in threads like this.

Where is the gas exactly? All that says is that nobody knows what's going on in training and that people shouldn't assume it's a player's doing.

 

[Treble]

Right for what? Our discussion was started by my question:

Is there anything worse than playing a youngster over a player like Lingard (4 league goals 2 assists) & Mata (3 league goals 2 assists)?

I haven't receive any direct answer regarding this one.

Depends on how good the youngster actually is. Who is best placed to estimate the quality of youngsters? Muppets on a football forum or the manager and the coaches who train them every day? This idea that Lingard and Mata contribute almost nothing and if you replace them with anybody nothing would change betrays a poor understanding of the game. There is much more to football than the goals/assist numbers.

 

[TwoSheds]

Depends on how good the youngster actually is. Who is best placed to estimate the quality of youngsters? Muppets on a football forum or the manager and the coaches who train them every day? This idea that Lingard and Mata contribute almost nothing and if you replace them with anybody nothing would change betrays a poor understanding of the game. There is much more to football than the goals/assist numbers.

Whilst I see what Lingard offers against the big teams, ultimately against a parked bus what counts is goals and assists. Both our seemingly first choice no.10s are next to useless on those occasions.

 

[Treble]

Whilst I see what Lingard offers against the big teams, ultimately against a parked bus what counts is goals and assists. Both our seemingly first choice no.10s are next to useless on those occasions.

Let's hope Ole is smart enough to notice it and play Gomes against the next parked bus.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Whilst I see what Lingard offers against the big teams, ultimately against a parked bus what counts is goals and assists. Both our seemingly first choice no.10s are next to useless on those occasions.

Mata's an infinitely better choice against a parked bus, as is Fred next to McTom and Pogba at 10. Andreas is also much more likely to pick a pass or score a goal.

We've options in midfield and in pre-season several players hugely outperformed Jesse, including Gomes, but despite that, the season has begun and Lingard is firmly first choice in that position, no matter the opposition.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Depends on how good the youngster actually is. Who is best placed to estimate the quality of youngsters? Muppets on a football forum or the manager and the coaches who train them every day? This idea that Lingard and Mata contribute almost nothing and if you replace them with anybody nothing would change betrays a poor understanding of the game. There is much more to football than the goals/assist numbers.

We are in Gomes's thread. I think we are all know which youngster you are referring to otherwise you won't be on this thread. Well, it seems the coaches who train Sancho every day at City couldn't see what he can become when the players is given the opportunity & time for experiences & improvement. But the one you called muppets could see.

What a no 10 & attacking midfielder should offer if it's not goals & assists?

What betrays? We should be ruthless to someone who contribute nothing & get paid lots.

 

[Treble]

We are in Gomes's thread. I think we are all know which youngster you are referring to otherwise you won't be on this thread. Well, it seems the coaches who train Sancho every day at City couldn't see what he can become when the players is given the opportunity & time for experiences & improvement. But the one you called muppets could see.

What a no 10 & attacking midfielder should offer if it's not goals & assists?

What betrays? We should be ruthless to someone who contribute nothing & get paid lots.

If things don't go well, Ole will play Gomes. We beat Chelsea and drew with Wolves away, it was only natural to continue with the same team. If we lose from Soton, new things will be tried and eventually Gomes will get his chance.

Regarding Sancho, City knew how talented he is, just weren't ready to drop Sterling/Sane and play him. Which is natural too. It's not clear that Sancho at his best would bench Sane if the latter is in form. Sancho was 17 y.o. then and wasn't ready. He needed another year at Dormund before starting to shine properly. It's not like City decided to play a Lingard or a Mata over him.

I'll admit that I like Mata and find his treatment from some fans on here unfair. I'm no Lingard fan nor I blindly believe in Ole. I think some fans are too harsh on Lingard though. He isn't that bad.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

If things don't go well, Ole will play Gomes. We beat Chelsea and drew with Wolves away, it was only natural to continue with the same team. If we lose from Soton, new things will be tried and eventually Gomes will get his chance.

Regarding Sancho, City knew how talented he is, just weren't ready to drop Sterling/Sane and play him. Which is natural too. It's not clear that Sancho at his best would bench Sane if the latter is in form. Sancho was 17 y.o. then and wasn't ready. He needed another year at Dormund before starting to shine properly. It's not like City decided to play a Lingard or a Mata over him.

I'll admit that I like Mata and find his treatment from some fans on here unfair. I'm no Lingard fan nor I blindly believe in Ole. I think some fans are too harsh on Lingard though. He isn't that bad.

He's a decent squad player and an ok option to come off the bench to chase and close down. Beyond that...I'm unconvinced.

He had a good season in goal scoring a couple of years back but since?

 

[Treble]

He's a decent squad player and an ok option to come off the bench to chase and close down. Beyond that...I'm unconvinced.

He had a good season in goal scoring a couple of years back but since?

I'm sure we'll look for new players in his position in the next transfer windows if some of the younger players do not step up in the meantime. Arguably, Lingard contributes more to our high-pressing game than any other player and this is an important reason why he plays together with his acelleration which is really good.

 

[Hughes35]

I really like the look of Gomes but Ole does seem to trust the youngsters when he thinks they are ready so I trust his judgment on this.

Gomes should 100% be starting the next cup game though and if he doesn't then I will start to have some doubts.

No way Lingard should still be starting though. Either Fred, Andreas, Mata, Gomes or Greenwood should start the next game ahead of him.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Where is the gas exactly? All that says is that nobody knows what's going on in training and that people shouldn't assume it's a player's doing.

What’s gas is that nobody knows what is going on in training but you’re assuming that something unlikely is happening (Gomes dominating but not being picked) because that’s the version of reality that best suits your agenda here.

 

[In Rainbows]

What’s gas is that nobody knows what is going on in training but you’re assuming that something unlikely is happening (Gomes dominating but not being picked) because that’s the version of reality that best suits your agenda here.

That's actually not what I said at all. It's very clear what I said. I'm saying you don't know what's going on in training and him dominating was a hypothetical, not one that I believe in btw, but the other end of "he sucks in training." All I did was give parameters of what could be going on in training. I didn't offer my opinion on how he's doing in training.

And what agenda exactly? I literally said a few pages back that I wasn't fussed about him not playing yet. It's completely understandable that he hasn't played yet even if other posters did make sense in wanting him to be on the bench during a game where the other team sat back.

 

[BlackBen]

If things don't go well, Ole will play Gomes. We beat Chelsea and drew with Wolves away, it was only natural to continue with the same team. If we lose from Soton, new things will be tried and eventually Gomes will get his chance.

Regarding Sancho, City knew how talented he is, just weren't ready to drop Sterling/Sane and play him. Which is natural too. It's not clear that Sancho at his best would bench Sane if the latter is in form. Sancho was 17 y.o. then and wasn't ready. He needed another year at Dormund before starting to shine properly. It's not like City decided to play a Lingard or a Mata over him.

I'll admit that I like Mata and find his treatment from some fans on here unfair. I'm no Lingard fan nor I blindly believe in Ole. I think some fans are too harsh on Lingard though. He isn't that bad.

For Brighton he isn't but for Manchester United yes he is that bad.

A forward who has zero goals and assists in 2019 for Manchester United and earns £100k a week should be considered a liability. If it were any other occupation, he would have been sacked for no productivity. Come on man, let's have some standards.

 

[Alemar]

It’s interesting there are 45 pages already in Gomes performance thread when he played exactly zero minutes this so far

But the thing is he of course needs to play

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's actually not what I said at all. It's very clear what I said. I'm saying you don't know what's going on in training and him dominating was a hypothetical, not one that I believe in btw, but the other end of "he sucks in training." All I did was give parameters of what could be going on in training. I didn't offer my opinion on how he's doing in training.

And what agenda exactly? I literally said a few pages back that I wasn't fussed about him not playing yet. It's completely understandable that he hasn't played yet even if other posters did make sense in wanting him to be on the bench during a game where the other team sat back.

Ok. Well I have no dog in this fight either. I just think there’s so many unknowns here we have to go with the most likely scenario. Based on what he’s been showing in training and all the input from coaches who’ve known him for years Ole has made the correct decision in not playing Gomes yet. Watching pre-season and reserves/underage games doesn’t give us much reliable information about exactly when a player is ready for PL minutes. Hence fans have been getting this wrong many many times over the years.

 

[kouroux]

Whether it's Greenwood, Gomes or Chong, I think they're not ready yet to step up. Greenwood is the closer to get serious minutes now but it's not easy for a kid to play at this level, specially when we need him immediately to be consistent. Ole can be criticized for many things but I like how he is handling these young players.
Europa League and Cup games are coming up, the Premier League is just too much right now.

 

[LVGSdive]

Right for what? Our discussion was started by my question:

Is there anything worse than playing a youngster over a player like Lingard (4 league goals 2 assists) & Mata (3 league goals 2 assists)?

I haven't receive any direct answer regarding this one.

Gomes was better than both in pre-season when he got on the pitch.

Unfortunately, people just always have an excuse not to play youth players out of the academy. No matter how obvious it is that the youth player is better.

See Hudson-Odoi last season for Chelsea. He was much better than Pedro and Willian in pre-season last season. Then right to the bench/out if the squad no matter how good, bad or indifferent Pedro or William were playing. It took a bid from Bayern for Sarri to finally realise that Hudson-Odoi needs to be playing. Which is why I'm hoping we get a bid or 2 for Angel to force the clubs hand into playing him.

 

[AltiUn]

Have you watched him before you make such comments. Or is Ole the second coming now and everything he does is now right?

No definitely not.