Agreed. Chong was miles better, too. In fact, only Mata was worse than James for me.
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The times James played on the left wing he did well, his shockers were on the right.
I wasn't impressed with him on the left either. The few times I saw him for Swansea on the left I never thought he looked good as well.
People think that Academy and first team are entirely different worlds. They are not, the Academy is every bit as competitive (especially nowadays with young players like Mbappe getting to the top) and competes for every single talented youngster worldwide - with the exception of Brazilians who may be harder to get to but are starting to be seen at younger ages. The incentives are too strong for us to not do this. The reason our Academy is one of the best (the best?) in the world is because a lot of talented players are recruited to it, face stiff competition in it and are educated at the highest level. It is not by accident that supremely skilled players like Pogba, Rashford, Morrison and now Greenwood and Gomes are coming through the Academy. It is because they have survived the cauldron of the Academy and risen to the very top.
Once in a while, an unheralded player like James comes through who has an attribute, searing pace for James, that makes him stand out where he didn't before at the Academy level. The problem is, though, that while he has that and appears to have the desire, he has not been educated and tested like the players in our Academy. As a result, he will appear to be a kick and rush merchant and, at 21, does not have the time to develop technique. We can use him as that but he can't compete with our blue-chip players above.
Gomes now only has 2 question marks, 1) can his body keep up in the PL? and 2) does he have the mentality to succeed? His body may be a positive rather than a negative with the greater protection that players now have and we can never know about mentality until it is tested. So, test him Ole, and test him now. He is ready.
Once in a while, an unheralded player like James comes through who has an attribute, searing pace for James, that makes him stand out where he didn't before at the Academy level. The problem is, though, that while he has that and appears to have the desire, he has not been educated and tested like the players in our Academy. As a result, he will appear to be a kick and rush merchant and, at 21, does not have the time to develop technique. We can use him as that but he can't compete with our blue-chip players above.
Gomes now only has 2 question marks, 1) can his body keep up in the PL? and 2) does he have the mentality to succeed? His body may be a positive rather than a negative with the greater protection that players now have and we can never know about mentality until it is tested. So, test him Ole, and test him now. He is ready.
Well yeah, if he's outperforming a 400 year old Charlie "Aging like Ronaldo" Adam, stick him in the team and give him the armband.
Lingard, Mata and Pereira are all number 10 and when one play there is 2 on the bench therefore there is no need to bring a third AM on the bench while we still need to fill other positions. Greenwood get a spot on the bench because both our strikers start the game and there is no one else to fill the bench as a striker and you'll always need on if ever you want to score late goals.
If one of Mata or Pereira weren't there Gomes would have been making the bench and also getting some late minutes.
It's probably more likely that we get top 4 with Gomes than without. It's not like we have De Bruyne, Hazard and Modric in front of him. He has players with lower ceilings in Lingard and Mata (the Mata of today at least) and playing at a lower level than he is right now (as seen in pre-season). The way Gomes has been playing in the past year where he has been completely running and dominating games, in addition to the elite-level technique and decision making, he deserves an extended opportunity in the starting 11. Gomes' performances last season away against Juventus and away to Newcastle were 2 of the best performances I've seen from our youth players.
Furthermore, if we start playing him now then the sooner he will get better. Then there is his contract situation where if we don't play him he will leave at the end of the season and he is too good to lose.
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I'd be tempted to start him on Saturday against Palace, or have him as first sub.
Lingard deserves dropped after that performance.
Lingard deserves dropped after that performance.
Gomes has played 4 games of competitive senior football for a combined total of less than 30 minutes. How high can you count?
He’s on about the U23 games where it’s not uncommon for senior players/fully grown men to play and Gomes has never struggled with their physicality.
We should at least give him a chance against Palace whether it be from the bench or start.
There is a massive leap from U23 level, or pre-season friendlies, to the Premier League in terms of the speed and physicality of the game. This gulf is much wider than in the past, as it used to be the case that more first team players would regularly play in the U23s to maintain sharpness so the quality of the U23 matches was more competitive and players coming up would get a better taste of what it was like to play against grown men. Now most clubs are trying to use that level to produce young talents so its mainly a group of 18-20 year olds playing against another group of 18-20 year olds, none of whom really have any idea what its like to play at a very high tempo, with a couple older players who are clearly never going to make it thrown into the mix and maybe a senior player coming back from an injury. This is why most clubs are going the loan route with their best young players - the step up from U23 to Premier League is just too big and reserve competition just doesn't prepare players for the rigors of the Premiership.
With a guy like Gomes, these issues are probably even more significant because of his size. Players that small can be successful, of course, but they usually need some particular qualities - most importantly really good acceleration and change of direction (which Gomes may have), a stocky build and a very strong lower half helps as well (not seeing that in him) - and they need to learn how to use those qualities against grown men flying around the pitch at speeds they've never faced and physically manhandling them at every opportunity. Moreso than other types of players his age with different physical profiles, Gomes is unlikely to be ready for the EPL and would probably benefit a lot from a loan spell.
With a guy like Gomes, these issues are probably even more significant because of his size. Players that small can be successful, of course, but they usually need some particular qualities - most importantly really good acceleration and change of direction (which Gomes may have), a stocky build and a very strong lower half helps as well (not seeing that in him) - and they need to learn how to use those qualities against grown men flying around the pitch at speeds they've never faced and physically manhandling them at every opportunity. Moreso than other types of players his age with different physical profiles, Gomes is unlikely to be ready for the EPL and would probably benefit a lot from a loan spell.
Highly doubt he'd go on loan. I think if he doesn't get a good amount of first team action this season, he'll simply leave on a free to another club willing to be brave enough to do that.
And believe me, he will have the pick of them.
Sending Gomes out on a loan would be utter madness. He’s ready, NOW.
Almost like experienced pros play in the u23s regularly. How dense are you?
At some point you just have to start playing these players. Feck the risk because he isn’t going to be worse than Lingard or Mata. Get it done. This weekend.
Yep. I often think these talented kids shouldn't join the top clubs anymore. If he was playing for somebody like Norwich or Bournemouth he'd already be in the first team playing regularly and getting experience. Then they can transfer to a top club and play. It's no wonder so good talents are going to Germany so they can get a good level of football at a young age.
I'd absolutely love it if we bring on Greenwood and Gomessi together at about 70 minutes and they rip palace apart
To be fair he's been here since he was about 5 or 6, don't think he'd turn us down at that age for potential game time 12/13 years in the futureYep. I often think these talented kids shouldn't join the top clubs anymore. If he was playing for somebody like Norwich or Bournemouth he'd already be in the first team playing regularly and getting experience. Then they can transfer to a top club and play. It's no wonder so good talents are going to Germany so they can get a good level of football at a young age.
I'd absolutely love it if we bring on Greenwood and Gomessi together at about 70 minutes and they rip palace apart
Obviously his situation is different, but many kids like Sancho move to bigger/richer acadamies as they think they'll get better training, but they get to the top level and then never get first team action and end up degrading.To be fair he's been here since he was about 5 or 6, don't think he'd turn us down at that age for potential game time 12/13 years in the future
What about players like Lingard and Mata getting consistent game time and being absolutely terrible and still getting picked, while Gomes looked quality in preseason. On top of that Lingard was the worst player in pre season and in the starting two PL games, why is that?
Because experience... or something along those lines
"Yeah but what about this, what about that."
Get a job in football management mate if you know it all. I'm just speculating based on probability and years of watching football.
Solksjear wants to do everything to succeed, we all know that. He sees Gomes every day and clearly doesnt think that currently he will help him succeed. Why is that?
People talk as if it's personal. You know sod all, other than Ole want to be successful, and you know the style he wants to play, and how physically demanding it is. With that in mind it's quite simple to understand why he's currently not playing. It's either he's not good enough, or he's not get physically up to it.
We all hope and assume it's the second one, and this will be fixed by months of training with the first time as well as his natural development as a fully grown man.
I struggle to get how somebody who's watched him play in 2019 could think the pace of the PL would be too much for him. He's probably more naturally equipped to playing in tight spaces and at speed than almost anyone in the whole squad (albeit his strength is a work in progress)
He's always has an unpredictable little swivel or sidestep to make space for himself. He'll have no problems
He's always has an unpredictable little swivel or sidestep to make space for himself. He'll have no problems
Iniesta vibe
I think he'll be in the squad for Palace. Chelsea and Wolves away are not games for trying inexperienced youngsters. I can understand Ole's reluctance
This a forum where people give their opinions just like you are.
Why did Jose play Lukaku as the number 9 ahead of Martial? He saw them both everyday, however it only depends on the managers opinion, which isn't always going to be right
To your point about what the answer is, well actually it could be that is what Oles opinion is and Ole could be wrong. It could also be that Ole is being cautious with introducing youth into the side. It could be plenty of things
Over here in England it's definitely the case. There's always an excuse in this country not to play a young player. This game is [Insert excuse here] so [ Insert young player's name here] can't play.Yep. I often think these talented kids shouldn't join the top clubs anymore. If he was playing for somebody like Norwich or Bournemouth he'd already be in the first team playing regularly and getting experience. Then they can transfer to a top club and play. It's no wonder so good talents are going to Germany so they can get a good level of football at a young age.
I'd absolutely love it if we bring on Greenwood and Gomessi together at about 70 minutes and they rip palace apart
Rennes just played a 16-year-old kid against PSG, Camavinga and he helped them to win the game. If you are good enough you're old enough.
In fact when Alan Hanson said, "You can't win anything with kids". Sir Alex responded with "You can't win anything without them either".
It's time for Gomes to get his opportunities by consistantly starting games.
I hope you are right, however when people were worried about his minutes in preseason we were told he'll be in the squad for Chelsea...
Due to the lack of minutes he got in pre season I'm a little skeptical that he'll get PL minutes or even be in the squad soon given we have Mata and Pereira also, but hopefully he'll play in the League Cup and Europa League
He's technically been in the squad for both games thus far hasn't he? I'm sure he was amongst the travelling party. It's making the step up from travelling to actually getting a place on the bench that's proved a step too far thus far and then once he's on the bench he needs to then actually get on the pitch (and not for like 2 minutes like Greenwood the other day)
Did they? As far as I'm aware, everyone has been saying that the kids will get their chances in the EL and from then on, it'll be up to them to force themselves in to the manager's reckoning.
Yep he and Chong have been left off the bench.
I think this week we won't need to play it quite so safe, we can leave Matic out and have Romero,Young,Gomes,Greenwood,Tuanzebe,Pereira/Chong or Mata+Matic etc.
They don't though. And on the rare occasions they do, they're going like 75% speed while they rehab an injury or just get a little exercise.
I just looked at the last five games Gomes played in the U23s for United. The sum total of first team player experiences in those matches was one game by Pereira and one game by Rojo. Everybody else is a youth player.
I didn't realize his contract situation. That's certainly a reason not to loan him, but I think my points all still stand about his likely readiness for senior football. He certainly looks like a talented player but its not just about talent when you make this jump.
This thread was quite active with the complaints
Yeah, the bed wetting complaints have been active, but I'm asking about the people telling everyone to relax, that he'd be on the bench for the first game...
I can only speak for myself, but I've consistently said he'll start getting games once the EL and Carabao Cup games start to kick in, which is absolutely fine. This season will be a long one.
Yes quite a few people said that
Yes, he's been in the 19/20 basically. I can kinda understand choosing more experience for a bench role in games you fully expect to be tight and pressurised. The last 15 minutes of those game often call for experienced cool heads.
But Palace at home is an opportunity to give him a chance. My feeling is he must be very close. He's always been seen within the club as a special talent and his form for the u23s has been too good to ignore for quite a while. No reason to assume the manager and his coaches cant see what seems quite obvious.
A possible sign that we could see him on the pitch at some point on Saturday?
I understand the skepticism. All he was given was a few minutes on the wing. Hardly preparation for a run as a number 8 or 10 in the first team. But he was good in those games, great last season for the u23s and sensational against Rotherham a couple weeks ago. Butt picked him to breakthrough this year and everyone else for his position looks crap. I'm hopeful.
When somebody starts a reply with "yeah but what about.." then it's a clear indication of an argumentative tone, and to be honest, I really can't be bothered with it.
You take the time to post measured posts only to be quoted and attacked by people writing like petulant and argumentative teenagers.
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