Ange Postecoglou

They've scored more than all but two teams and they've also conceded fewer than all but two teams... and they're somehow 10th.

Spursiness defies mathematics.
That is crazy. Shows how hot and cold they blow in a nutshell.
Bournemouth is not an easy game. They’ve already beaten City and Arsenal this season. They also underperform their xG. They’re going to give us a proper game in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, Bournemouth are flying under the rader/underrated. Their manager is on track for Manager of the Year in my opinion. He has made them both fairly entertaining to watch and difficult to breakdown.
 
That is crazy. Shows how hot and cold they blow in a nutshell.

Yeah, Bournemouth are flying under the rader/underrated. Their manager is on track for Manager of the Year in my opinion. He has made them both fairly entertaining to watch and difficult to breakdown.
Iraola has been a brilliant appointment for them, especially after how well Gary O'Neil did it was a risky move going with someone else.

It's only a matter of time until he gets a move to a big club in my eyes. Bournemouth play every bit of the modern game well.
 
Win v city
Draw v Fulham
Lose v Bournemouth

Is this not standard Spurs? What’s wrong with them?

The two games before that were win v Villa and lose v Ipswich as well.

It's just Spurs.
 
I think we'll finish above them and Villa. It's Chelsea I'm concerned about.
I stopped rating him as a potentially very good manager when he said some silly things in his early pressers. Something about how he hated when managers complain about not having specific players to play a certain way, he'd say "mate just get on with it". It was so clear his system relied on VDV and a couple others or it'l fall apart :lol:

He's also too wacky races in his style. Clearly focuses too much on free flowing football and very little on defensive organization. Won't fly in the PL.
 
The win against City said more about City than it did about Spurs.

Maddison is great on occasion but too many 'gone missing' performances in him. Same could be said for most of the team.
 
I think he's shown that his Spurs team can play a sustainable, entertaining and long-term efficient style of football that could, with an elite level squad, challenge for the league eventually...unlike ETH for example, who just abandoned his philosophies in his first season after the first two games, and grinded out 3rd with a deep defensive line and a very pragmatic style of football...and when he tried to return to that original approach, we were one of the worst teams across the whole league in the underlying metrics. So in this regard I think Postecoglou has proven more than ETH, but their squad would have to slightly overperform in order to make top 4 or even 5th place IMO.

He also kind of oversold both himself and especially this Spurs squad last season with that great run of form in the first three months, which might've made people think that all is well and good and all Spurs needed was a good manager and they'll make top 4 without many issues starting from now on...

...but has there been a more difficult time to even become a mainstay top 4 team in the league, than present day?

I don't think Liverpool are the best team in the world or that they'll even win the league, but they have a great manager, and a much better squad that he can work with. Arteta's Arsenal are a top 3 team in the world with a very young core that hasn't even peaked. City have been the best team in the world for years now and their slump only started 1 month ago. United have just hired one of the most exciting young coaches across Europe and Ineos seem to have high ambitions and are willing to burn a lot of money + hire the best in class footballing people in order to return United to the top again. I'm not sure I can change my opinion on Chelsea and their project just yet, but they definitely have more money than Spurs as well, just like all the other 4 clubs I've just mentioned.

So, for Spurs to win the league, or at least seriously challenge for it, or become a solid top 4 team for several years in a row, it would have to be a big sporting success. Similar to Leverkusen's huge sporting success in Germany, without being one of the richest clubs there. There are at least 5 teams that have more resources, elite level managers, and I'd argue better squads as well, with many world class players that are simply way superior profiles to anyone on the market currently, let alone the ones Spurs could realistically snatch away from other clubs on the market, like we did with Yoro from Madrid. Spurs cannot buy anyone currently that's as good, or even have a similar ceiling as Trent, van Dijk, Alisson, Salah, Palmer, Haaland, Gvardiol, De Bruyne, Rice, Saliba, Saka, and I'll put Bruno from United here as well because he's the 2nd best #10 in the league.

Also, defeats like yesterday's vs Bournemouth can easily happen. Iraola is an excellent coach and they've assembled a very respectable squad (or at least starting XI) that have many good players who could play for a bigger club than Bournemouth. Spurs also had some very important players unavailable: Romero, van de Ven, Vicario.

I also feel like Postecoglou wasn't backed properly in the summer. Solanke was an addition who should be able to contribute massively from day one, but Gray, Bergvall, and Odobert are not ready to do that, despite all 3 being very talented players IMO. It's a bit similar to United's 2018 (Fred, Dalot, Grant) and 2020 (Telles, Cavani, VdB, Amad, Pellistri) windows IMO where I felt like both Mourinho and Solskjaer were massively fecked over by the Glazers.

Ange is definitely not faultless though and I feel like there have been occasions where he was way too stubborn and it hurt his team's prospects to get a result, like the 9v11 high line vs Chelsea a year ago. He can also be a bit of a prick in his press conferences. :lol:

Overall, though, I don't think Spurs should sack him, because of two reasons.

1. I don't think they can get an objectively better manager to replace him.

2. Spurs cannot be expected to have a better and more exciting footballing project right now, than Arsenal, Liverpool, City, United, or Chelsea.

Long-term, it's different, because yes, they have some elite pieces that are ready to contribute right now, but there aren't enough of them. Vicario, Porro, Romero, VdV, Maddison, Solanke, Kulusevski, Johnson, Son. These guys are their best players IMO, but the quality of teams in the top 6 is just way too strong for this core to be expected to make top 4-5 comfortably IMO.

However, they have an incredibly exciting group of talents that might not be ready now, but should be in 2-3 years' time: Moore, Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Odobert, Lankshear.

So overall, I think the manager isn't the problem, and they should temper expectations until they actually have a squad that's capable of achieving the club's long-term ambitions. Whilst their long-term prospects are looking great, if they can keep 90% of their current core + talented youngsters, I don't think any of Pep, Amorim, Slot, Arteta, etc. could get top 4 with their current team. Or it would be an incredibly difficult task to do so and would need some rivals to have bad seasons as well.
 
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TBF if he's announced this season he's going to win something that's what he'll be judged on now. Europa League they've had a couple of disappointing results but will still qualify comfortably and knock outs for them probably won't start until March. FA cup only just starting.

In the short term I think it's all on the QF against you guys. Spurs go out and I can see it really spiralling out of control as there are more tough fixtures for them around Xmas (Liverpool, Forest, Newcastle) so out of league cup and bottom half and he'll be seriously struggling to stay on.
 
They've scored more than all but two teams and they've also conceded fewer than all but two teams... and they're somehow 10th.

Spursiness defies mathematics.

Yeah this is what struck me as well. Very odd and it would seem to suggest they're actually a good side who - like everyone talks about - simply lack consistency rather than being a flawed team as a whole, which IMO makes the turning on Ange a little bit premature.

Most fans will of course only care about results and their position in the table which will result in an early pile on of pressure, but I believe they're also 2nd (or at least were before last night) in a bunch of other prominent attacking stats like xG, SCA, possession, both progressive passes and carries. They're clearly able to retain the ball, break the lines and create chances pretty much as well as anyone in the league at the moment, and then they're not really conceding either...

It's easy to say but if 1 or 2 results go their way they'd be top 4 / 5 and their wouldn't even be any real questioning of his future at the moment, for example if they'd beaten Ipswich at home (which on paper they should have).

I think the next 5 or 6 games will be key and it won't necessarily be the results in the games we might initially think like the Chelsea and Liverpool ones... more so if they can't pull at least 7 points out of the games against Southampton, Forest and Wolves I'd question if they will ever find the consistency needed to routinely beat the sides in the bottom half.
 
I think he's shown that his Spurs team can play a sustainable, entertaining and long-term efficient style of football that could, with an elite level squad, challenge for the league eventually...unlike ETH for example, who just abandoned his philosophies in his first season after the first two games, and grinded out 3rd with a deep defensive line and a very pragmatic style of football...and when he tried to return to that original approach, we were one of the worst teams across the whole league in the underlying metrics. So in this regard I think Postecoglou has proven more than ETH, but their squad would have to slightly overperform in order to make top 4 or even 5th place IMO.

He also kind of oversold both himself and especially this Spurs squad last season with that great run of form in the first three months, which might've made people think that all is well and good and all Spurs needed was a good manager and they'll make top 4 without many issues starting from now on...

...but has there been a more difficult time to even become a mainstay top 4 team in the league, than present day?

I don't think Liverpool are the best team in the world or that they'll even win the league, but they have a great manager, and a much better squad that he can work with. Arteta's Arsenal are a top 3 team in the world with a very young core that hasn't even peaked. City have been the best team in the world for years now and their slump only started 1 month ago. United have just hired one of the most exciting young coaches across Europe and Ineos seem to have high ambitions and are willing to burn a lot of money + hire the best in class footballing people in order to return United to the top again. I'm not sure I can change my opinion on Chelsea and their project just yet, but they definitely have more money than Spurs as well, just like all the other 4 clubs I've just mentioned.

So, for Spurs to win the league, or at least seriously challenge for it, or become a solid top 4 team for several years in a row, it would have to be a big sporting success. Similar to Leverkusen's huge sporting success in Germany, without being one of the richest clubs there. There are at least 5 teams that have more resources, elite level managers, and I'd argue better squads as well, with many world class players that are simply way superior profiles to anyone on the market currently, let alone the ones Spurs could realistically snatch away from other clubs on the market, like we did with Yoro from Madrid. Spurs cannot buy anyone currently that's as good, or even have a similar ceiling as Trent, van Dijk, Alisson, Salah, Palmer, Haaland, Gvardiol, De Bruyne, Rice, Saliba, Saka, and I'll put Bruno from United here as well because he's the 2nd best #10 in the league.

Also, defeats like yesterday's vs Bournemouth can easily happen. Iraola is an excellent coach and they've assembled a very respectable squad (or at least starting XI) that have many good players who could play for a bigger club than Bournemouth. Spurs also had some very important players unavailable: Romero, van de Ven, Vicario.

I also feel like Postecoglou wasn't backed properly in the summer. Solanke was an addition who should be able to contribute massively from day one, but Gray, Bergvall, and Odobert are not ready to do that, despite all 3 being very talented players IMO. It's a bit similar to United's 2018 (Fred, Dalot, Grant) and 2020 (Telles, Cavani, VdB, Amad, Pellistri) windows IMO where I felt like both Mourinho and Solskjaer were massively fecked over by the Glazers.

Ange is definitely not faultless though and I feel like there have been occasions where he was way too stubborn and it hurt his team's prospects to get a result, like the 9v11 high line vs Chelsea a year ago. He can also be a bit of a prick in his press conferences. :lol:

Overall, though, I don't think Spurs should sack him, because of two reasons.

1. I don't think they can get an objectively better manager to replace him.

2. Spurs cannot be expected to have a better and more exciting footballing project right now, than Arsenal, Liverpool, City, United, or Chelsea.

Long-term, it's different, because yes, they have some elite pieces that are ready to contribute right now, but there aren't enough of them. Vicario, Porro, Romero, VdV, Maddison, Solanke, Kulusevski, Johnson, Son. These guys are their best players IMO, but the quality of teams in the top 6 is just way too strong for this core to be expected to make top 4-5 comfortably IMO.

However, they have an incredibly exciting group of talents that might not be ready now, but should be in 2-3 years' time: Moore, Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Odobert, Lankshear.

So overall, I think the manager isn't the problem, and they should temper expectations until they actually have a squad that's capable of achieving the club's long-term ambitions. Whilst their long-term prospects are looking great, if they can keep 90% of their current core + talented youngsters, I don't think any of Pep, Amorim, Slot, Arteta, etc. could get top 4 with their current team. Or it would be an incredibly difficult task to do so and would need some rivals to have bad seasons as well.
The guy who beat him last night is doing quite well with Bournemouth, but yeah, never sure how these managers would perform elsewhere. I think it's too early to sack him as well, but will be interesting to see what happens if the next 2-3 results also doesn't go their way.
 
The guy who beat him last night is doing quite well with Bournemouth, but yeah, never sure how these managers would perform elsewhere. I think it's too early to sack him as well, but will be interesting to see what happens if the next 2-3 results also doesn't go their way.

I don't think it's worth ditching the whole project for someone like Iraola right now. Spurs will probably finish around where they're expected to finish with this squad this season.

They got 66 points last season and finished 5th. I'm not sure adding Solanke and 3 teenagers should suddenly raise the expectations around that team, especially considering that Chelsea have seemingly got their shit together, and I reckon that will also be the general consensus about United as well by the end of this season. I'd say even 7th will be acceptable for Spurs, provided that they actually perform well with a fully fit squad against the teams they should be beating on paper.
 
I don't think it's worth ditching the whole project for someone like Iraola right now. Spurs will probably finish around where they're expected to finish with this squad this season.

They got 66 points last season and finished 5th. I'm not sure adding Solanke and 3 teenagers should suddenly raise the expectations around that team, especially considering that Chelsea have seemingly got their shit together, and I reckon that will also be the general consensus about United as well by the end of this season. I'd say even 7th will be acceptable for Spurs, provided that they actually perform well with a fully fit squad against the teams they should be beating on paper.
Yeah, no complaints there, though I think the fans are probably more entitled ("deluded") expecting a season on season improvement from him.
 
Yeah, no complaints there, though I think the fans are probably more entitled ("deluded") expecting a season on season improvement from him.

A large portion of their fanbase is deluded, I agree.
 
6 defeat in 14 league games sounds poor but Ange is safe for now surely. They've got chance to get to the semis of Carabao Cup (will be favorites to beat us), one of the favourites to win Europa League and there's obviously also Fa Cup as a chance. Also only 3 points away from 5th place (that should secure CL for next season) so it could be a successful season for Spurs yet.

However, if Ange does get the sack at some point (could actually rather see it happening in May and not before), can see Tottenham going for Iraola or Frank.
 
Such an idiotic decision to play Romero and VDV from the start given they are both coming from a longish injury layoffs. He should be fired tmrw morning but will Levy do it?
 
They need to play a flat three in central midfield imo in these type of games. Chelsea are circulating the ball very well currently but it was simply too easy for them to play quick 1-2s and then have Palmer running at their CBs.

They've dropped Maddison so not like they're even playing a number 10.

I don't rate Bissouma that highly. To me he's one of these players who looks decent at start of seasons where there isn't much pressure and then goes missing at business end of seasons, ridiculous challenge for the first penalty.

Once Bentancur's ban is up they need to be looking at him and Sarr as their pivot and then probably give a run of games to either Gray or Bergvall but say to them they don't have to look to get the ball up to the front 3 every single time, just keep circulating play and wait for the right moments.

Their record against the top sides in 2024 is generally abysmal so the Angeball style isn't working home or away against many teams in the league currently. It needs a re-think or him getting sacked and I suspect what is the more likely outcome in the next few weeks.
 
I didn't think he'd last a year.

18 months seems to be about right for a Spurs manager.
 
His great start last season in the league was P10 W8 D 2 L0.

Since then:

P43 W18 D6 L19.
 
I didn't think he'd last a year.

18 months seems to be about right for a Spurs manager.

It feels a bit like Vilas-Boas to me. Pretty good debut season but then all spirals out of control early in the second.
 
Another example of the need to calm down when someone gets off to a good start.

Always let things plateau before getting excited.
 
It feels a bit like Vilas-Boas to me. Pretty good debut season but then all spirals out of control early in the second.

Yeah, it's typical Spurs though, do well for a few games and then drop way off and the manager is gone after 18 months.
 
He builds exciting teams to watch and they can be devastating when in full gear.

The problem is PL football relies much on control than freedom of expression (thanks Jose and Rafa!) and that's how the best teams function. When under the cosh Spurs often have no response.

The two games that signalled issues with Ange's brand was funnily enough Chelsea at home 23/24 and Brighton away this season. The reckless high line. 0-2 up and a shocking second half collapse with no midfield in sight.
 
Entertaining, but basically the Aussie Leeds Bielsa

Yeah pretty much. This season they're also playing Thursday-Sunday regularly so the high press stuff simply isn't sustainable in the long run.

I do think he's the ideal manager for West Ham so wonder if they might hold off sacking Lopetegui for a few weeks just to see if he becomes available early 2025.
 
Good manager if backed well I’d imagine. Needs a whole team to buy into his way of playing.

Spurs are the wrong fit but it seems they’re the wrong fit for any manager.
 
Good manager if backed well I’d imagine. Needs a whole team to buy into his way of playing.

Spurs are the wrong fit but it seems they’re the wrong fit for any manager.
I don’t think he is a good manager. He is just like Ten Hag. Sure his team is more entertaining going forward but he keeps using the same tactics and system that’s doesn’t work week after week and expects different results.