Because 90mn of football are never quite so black and white, obviously - there are various phases within the game, various dynamics at play, especially between 2 good teams where the gap is not so big. You're being disingenuous if you didn't understand what I meant.
Ange Postecoglou | New Spurs boss on 4 year contract
- Thread starter MayosNoun
- Start date
I think he can but that's sort of like learning to run when at the moment we're just learning to crawl. It's going to take time.
What's absolutely necessary is to get the recruitment right this summer. We can't mess it up and spend another whole season on the crawling part. We need to have the ideal players for his system after this next window. For me that's a #6, winger and striker at a minimum. At Celtic his signings were really good apparently, so that gives me some reassurance that he knows what he's looking for. Here so far I would say a mixed bag overall but a higher success rate than we've had in the recent past with signings.
But anyway yeah I accept that having painful results will be a necessary part of this process.
I still can’t work out why people continue to blow smoke up his ample backside. Does all the “mate” crap really work that well? Because nothing he’s doing is really any more than what you’d expect for the club he’s at and the squad he has.
Everyone loves to watch gung ho football, unfortunately it’s also a results driven business and that approach against certain sides is basically throwing points away. His lack of pragmatism is more stupid than it is something to be admired.
Everyone loves to watch gung ho football, unfortunately it’s also a results driven business and that approach against certain sides is basically throwing points away. His lack of pragmatism is more stupid than it is something to be admired.
I still cant work out why people have this thing against Ange and try to write him and his performances off at every chance they get. Should be celebrating a manager that actually wants to play some fun football and doesnt change his values to play shit on a stick football just to get results.
Spurs lost one of their best players in their history. Ange came in without much expectations and got Spurs at a 5th place right now. They play fun to watch football, they have some great young players and his players are improving. Spurs never had a chance to win the title and nobody realistically expected them to get into the CL before the season. Spurs fans got a way better season than they would have expected while watching fun football game. Ange could very well build upon this season. Ange had a great first season and deserves the praise he receives.
Because in CAF if a manager doesn't punch above the team's weight then he is not good enough. He just lost to Arsenal so he is a fraud.
Agree, all you can really ask for as a fan is progression and Ange has brought that. If we start to go backwards next season and with the same frailties then it'll be fair to question him.
It's funny when people say Spurs are where you'd expect them to be yet very few had us down for top 6 before the season started... and that was before Kane left.
It must be fun to be a Spurs fan this season. You had to endure some years of Mourinho and Conte football and all of a sudden you get to see fun exciting football on almost a weekly base.
I’ve literally just explained it in the post you quoted. Because it’s idiotic, the idea is to finish with as many points as possible, not to play gung-ho attacking football every week at the expense of a greater points total. The fact he gets lauded for things other managers get berated for is what makes it particularly strange.
Spurs are 11th on form over the last 6 months. And there are no lengthy cup campaigns or european involvements for excuses either.
He's done enough to earn 2nd season there though 2nd part of the season they've dropped many points it seems. One of United, Newcastle and Chelsea would have taken advantage of it they weren't so poor. They can still get close to their 2 best league finished in last 6 years - 71 points in 2018/19 and 2021/22.
Ange has exceeded expectations and fully deserves a second season. Does anyone seriously dispute this?
I think he deserves another season, I had them finishing around 8-10th after losing Kane. They also shipped the 6th most goals in the league in a defensive Conte system with 3 CB's, I think only the teams that got relegated shipped more. Should end in 5th place, which I feel is a pass for a first season and a bit of a rebuild.
He's done well. He obviously deserves to be in the job start of next season.
Unless these extra points are necessary for a meaningful goal like top-4 or a title or a cup, the point is absolutely to play attacking football so that people like to, you know, watch the games instead of just following the score online and trying to win internet debates based on that. So, sacrificing a few points in favor of exciting football is not always "idiotic".
For instance, give me exciting end-to-end football from ETH all of this season, I'll gladly give up 6 out of the grand total of 54 points that we've valiantly scored so far.
Hell, Ole had a shit record in his first half season in the PL. But that period is remembered fondly for some of the exciting football we played after the Mourinho masterclasses.
Bullshit.
There'd be just as many, if not more (if that's actually possible) calls for his head if we were languishing in 9th/10th on 48 points at this stage of the season, and the "exciting end-to-end football" would be written off as suicidal, Bielsa-esque nonsense and proof of his inability to manage at the top level.
As opposed to the current barnstorming finish to the season that has him on the brink of a contract extension?
If we're finishing 7th with shit football and a manager most of us agree is not good enough, I'd rather finish 10th with some exciting football in the season and a manager most of us agree is not good enough.
To be fair, he's had a very Ole-esque trajectory. Ole's first season had an unbelievable opening run of results, only to fall off a cliff towards the end. He was offered a second season but, with hindsight, that might not have been the right decision. Hard not to wonder if Ange's great start is mainly down to the same nice guy/good vibes that made Ole seem like such an amazing manager in those first few months in charge.
I still call bullshit.
You're saying this because our season has been very poor. It'd still be very poor even if we'd had whatever it is you'd class as exciting football, that somehow led us to more, bad results.
We've also had exciting, end-to-end games (from a neutral's perspective, at least). We've been involved in five 4-3s, two 3-3s, two 4-2s, three 3-2s, and three 2-2s. In fact, the biggest criticism aimed at Ten Hag is precisely the end-to-end nature of most of our games.
He'll need to trade some chaos for control without morphing into LvG's Manchester United side.
Solskajer took over almost halfway through the season and inherited a group of players who went through a toxic final few months under Mourinho. An inevitable lift was to be expected. A run of easy Christmas fixtures certainly helped. We actually got a lift when Carrick filled in for Ole and Rangnick became interim. We only lost 1 of our next 20 games after Ole was sacked. The football wasn't amazing or anything like that. There were some bad draws in there, but the bleeding had stopped after a horrific run of form under Ole. Both interim managers had pretty horrific ending to their seasons. March onwards was brutal for both Ole and Rangnick.
Spurs beat Villa 4-0 away a few weeks ago and were unlucky to lose on Sunday. Arsenal being 3-0 up was a bit freakish. One of those games where they didn't get any luck. The opposite of the Liverpool game from earlier in the season. They'll just have to take that one on the chin.
Ange has shown that he can be ruthless with things like double HT substitutions and triple subs in the 2nd half of games. His comments about him needing to get the player to be more like Romero also. He's not always nicey-nicey. He's got a stern streak that I never sensed from Ole.
6-7 points from their final 5 games would secure 5th. Chelsea, Burnley and Sheffield Utd should be games they can get those points in. Less needed if United don't win every game. GD is in their favour too. Not that 5th will really matter due to how the English teams performed in Europe.
Yeah, it would be weird if someone didn’t agree with this. At the very least you can try and argue “met” versus “exceeded” expectations - my personal opinion is also that he’s exceeded (obviously helped by our own struggles, and also that of Newcastle and Chelsea). But either way, he definitely deserves that second season, without question.
I don’t think he is very good and think he will have a poor second season. A lot of sides have quick, skillful wide players and are playing it to them now and causing them all sorts of issues. He doesn’t seem flexible enough to have any sort of plan B.
All those teams with astute managers (Villa, Palace, Bournemouth) will smoke them next season. I am putting my stall out that Spurs will be the crisis club come December.
Once the players start questioning what he is doing and don’t buy into it as well as they did initially, he is toast.
All those teams with astute managers (Villa, Palace, Bournemouth) will smoke them next season. I am putting my stall out that Spurs will be the crisis club come December.
Once the players start questioning what he is doing and don’t buy into it as well as they did initially, he is toast.
Worth putting Spur likely points total into perspective. 61 points after 33 games. They have 27 points from their last 19 games, so they're on course for a total of 68 points (70 points if you use form over entire season so far) And this is a season where they have no European football and his squad have played far fewer games than all their rivals.
Last season they only got 60 points, so he's definitely an improvement on end stage Conte (which is a low bar?)
The season before that they got 71 points. A season where results were so bad they sacked their manager in November.
So yeah, he's definitely done enough to not get sacked but the season as a whole hasn't been spectacular at all.
Last season they only got 60 points, so he's definitely an improvement on end stage Conte (which is a low bar?)
The season before that they got 71 points. A season where results were so bad they sacked their manager in November.
So yeah, he's definitely done enough to not get sacked but the season as a whole hasn't been spectacular at all.
I feel like it depends how the season ends, they've got a genuinely insane fixture list to come (Chelsea, Pool, City, Newcastle, Burnley and Sheffield United) can see them coming out of that with only a few wins and then things start to look a bit shit for him.
I also think he's gotten figured out a bit as time went on. Will be interesting to see how he adapts.
Initially the tactic of having both the fullbacks super high up the pitch in almost the #10 type position with just 3 guys behind mopping up the counters was fine.
Now opposition teams know that there will always be just 3 guys defending and tactically you can instruct your striker / #10 to make specific runs and your defenders to hit the pass without looking.
He definitely deserves to be in the Spurs job next season but it'll be interesting to see how he adapts.
Initially the tactic of having both the fullbacks super high up the pitch in almost the #10 type position with just 3 guys behind mopping up the counters was fine.
Now opposition teams know that there will always be just 3 guys defending and tactically you can instruct your striker / #10 to make specific runs and your defenders to hit the pass without looking.
He definitely deserves to be in the Spurs job next season but it'll be interesting to see how he adapts.
It's quite funny that if we'd been even slightly less catastrophically shit over recent weeks - and managed not to piss away a bunch of points in injury time - we'd have an excellent chance of matching his points total. With a manager who is probably a dead man walking.
I really believe he did a very good job this season, any top6 finish for this current Spurs side is an achievement. All that while playing entertaining football.
It's definitely good enough 1st season for Ange and also playing some nice football - especially after managers like Mourinho, Nuno, Conte in charge. Even Poch in latter stages.
On the other side, they've also had no European games to play this season and got knocked out of Carabao Cup in August and Fa Cup in January. So basically game a week for most of the season. Actually think they've underperformed 2nd part of the season and it's why Villa are above them but season as a whole has been good enough for Ange to continue.
I can only recall two counter attack goals under LVG, both last minute when we were defending a lead (Wilson at QPR, Rooney at Arsenal). Maybe there were others.
Martial vs Stoke 2016 was a counter I believe.
I think Angel has done well this season and certainly deserves another window and another go next season.
The one thing I'm finding strange about the comments though is this belief that he's playing this way to make sure his style gets imprinted onto the team, and then he might be more adaptaple next season.
I'll be very surprised if that is actually the case. This is the way Angel plays, he is categorical about that. This is a manager that in his 2nd season took Celtic to the Bernabau and played this way. If you aren't going to adapt a Scottish team at Real Madrid I don't think he'll adapt the way Spurs play. I said it when he got appointed it's his biggest strength and his biggest weakness.
This is why Spurs was always going to be his greatest test, because it's 1 thing coaching in Japan, or the best team in Scotland where the level of opposition means you can play that style and not be punished as much, but it's another thing playing that style in the toughest league in the world.
As for his recruitment at Celtic, it's very hard to judge because it's a total different level. His biggest successes were basically raiding the J league because he knew it well, signing Kyogo, Mateta, Hatate, and loaning Carter Vickers and Jota and converting them into permanent deals.
The one thing I'm finding strange about the comments though is this belief that he's playing this way to make sure his style gets imprinted onto the team, and then he might be more adaptaple next season.
I'll be very surprised if that is actually the case. This is the way Angel plays, he is categorical about that. This is a manager that in his 2nd season took Celtic to the Bernabau and played this way. If you aren't going to adapt a Scottish team at Real Madrid I don't think he'll adapt the way Spurs play. I said it when he got appointed it's his biggest strength and his biggest weakness.
This is why Spurs was always going to be his greatest test, because it's 1 thing coaching in Japan, or the best team in Scotland where the level of opposition means you can play that style and not be punished as much, but it's another thing playing that style in the toughest league in the world.
As for his recruitment at Celtic, it's very hard to judge because it's a total different level. His biggest successes were basically raiding the J league because he knew it well, signing Kyogo, Mateta, Hatate, and loaning Carter Vickers and Jota and converting them into permanent deals.
Thing is his style is nothing that fantastico. He's in the Premier League now. Mid-table Brighton are expected to play quality stuff. Newcastle, when they put it together, are a good watch. Chelsea with those players are no Wimbledon 88. And that's all before you get near the top 4. Early doors Spurs looked revitalised. But eons off what it will take to get 90 points.
What can I say, man. People who are not you sometimes have opinions different to yours.
Of course I'm saying that I'd settle for slightly fewer points because our season has been utter shite. Nothing more to lose.
My point was that if we're going to have a low points total, I would prefer a season like Klopp's first season at Liverpool. He finished 8th. But he also beat City 4-1 away and 3-0 at home and eliminated a much stronger Dortmund side on the way to the EL final. The same way, Ange is not setting the world on fire with the results, but he has his team above us and playing better football.
The so-called exciting games this season you point to seem to include us pissing away a lead or conceding a lead to a relegation side and then struggling to a win in the end. If the neutrals liked it, it's because they like to see us flounder. I didn't get much enjoyment out of actually watching us this season in those games.
I really like Ange and Spurs are very entertaining to watch. Unfortunately I don't think it will last for him longer than 2-3 seasons though.
His comments about not being interested in set pieces are bizarre. it's such a core component of the game, especially in the English game. One of the main reasons Arsenal are in a title chase is due to their proficiency in set pieces this season.
His comments about not being interested in set pieces are bizarre. it's such a core component of the game, especially in the English game. One of the main reasons Arsenal are in a title chase is due to their proficiency in set pieces this season.
Next season will be the big test.
This season they've played THREE cup games. Anyone in Europe would've exceeded that amount by November at the latest.
Can't see the intensity quite working next season with three of those games in a week. Unless they get a squad of twenty high quality players but that feels very unlikely.
This season they've played THREE cup games. Anyone in Europe would've exceeded that amount by November at the latest.
Can't see the intensity quite working next season with three of those games in a week. Unless they get a squad of twenty high quality players but that feels very unlikely.
He really has been terrible.
Yes, he has got the team playing fast, fancy football but had united had even tiny bit of luck on their side we would be above them.
That being said, its spurs and the shitshow they have gone through with Mou and Conte, they deserve someone like Ange who is no drama fellow.
Big second season coming up for him, I believe Levy will back him in the market and then it can go toxic very fast.
Yes, he has got the team playing fast, fancy football but had united had even tiny bit of luck on their side we would be above them.
That being said, its spurs and the shitshow they have gone through with Mou and Conte, they deserve someone like Ange who is no drama fellow.
Big second season coming up for him, I believe Levy will back him in the market and then it can go toxic very fast.
His recruitment at Spurs has been ok, VDV, Udogie, Vicario, Maddison. Still not sure about Werner, but I guess given the other choices of Gil and Solomon, he is probably an upgrade over those 2, and it is a loan so zero risk really. Have not seen enough of Dragusin to know how that is panning out.
He is apparently a massive fan of Toney, so I would not be surprised to see Spurs go in for him and ship out Solomon and Gil. An attack of Toney, Son, Kulusevski, with Maddison pulling the strings behind them seems ok tbf.
I don't see how you can say he has been terrible?
I thought they'd really struggle this season without Kane, but they've done very well to finish in the top five.
Udogie was signed the summer before, and Vicario was announced just a few weeks after Ange so I'm not sure if he had much to do with that signing. Even Maddison was a long term link.
Yeah sometimes hard to know whether a coach has a say, or whether the player was an investment by the club. Was he active behind the scenes before the signing was public? Did he have nothing to do with xfers?