Hope the racist get sacked.
Anelka at West Brom | Sleeve Touching/Homage/Hate Swipe Controversy
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If it was done near a synagog or memorial it would maybe lead to confusion, but Anelka did it to support a friend in a football field, so this witch hunt is a disgrace.
Simply because Anelka is making a political statement and supporting Dieudonné, who happens to be great friends with the Front Nationale (National Front) of France. He was a comedian in the 1980s with a Jewish comedian called Elie Semoun. The history goes that they were childhood friends, but over the last few years, there has been some hatred from Dieudonnés part towards Semoun. He is into "négationisme", which is to say that he denies the holocaust ever happened, and I believe it is a criminal offence to deny such an atrocity. Anyway, if you want to know more about Dieudonné, then see his page on wiki. You'll be surprised that the godfather is noneother than Jean Marie LePen, the fascist who has been to many speeches with regards to the defunct NF and the BNP.
So, if Anelka gets banned for doing a reverse Nazi salute, then I don't have any sympathy. For me, Anelka crossed the line just as Mark Bosnich did or Di Canio. Dieudonné is a racist, a fascist, a holocause denier, probably a homophobe too. And we go on about the EDL. At least the ex leader of the EDL got arrested, whereas Dieudonné is allowed to peddle his hatred on youtube. Yes, unfortunately you will not find many of his videos in English, but being a fluent French speaker, there is a lot of hatred in his videos, especially towards his ex-friend.
Edit: @Hellboy
If only you knew the truth about Dieudonné. You may have sympathy Anelka, but he chose to support a fascist and an anti-semite. It is amazing the criticism that Di Canio received on here for the same thing, but when it is Anelka, it is different.
Why is he a hero to you?
I actually did sort of know what his gesture symbolised but I still don't see what the fuss is all about. So he defended his friends actions. It's really not a big deal IMO. I don't think anyone denying the holocaust happened should be a crime at all. I think that person is a bit of an idiot of holding that viewpoint but criminal act ? Nah. Lots of people hold lots of crazy conspiracy theories too, often steeped in bias, racism etc. I don't see how any of it should be liable to criminal prosecution.
I think people are a big precious really.
I think people are a big precious really.
Apparently some Jewish fella in France indicated this. It's in the Guardian article about Anelka's recent tweet.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/22/nicolas-anelka-quenelle-drop-charges-fa-facebook
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I know everything about Dieudonné and I went to his last show "Le Mur" that was funny.
Everything started when he was absolutely killed after Fogiel (I assume you are familiar with that). Like many, he is fed up with the influence of zionists in France that banned him from the media because he was merely criticizing Israel's violence. Before that episode he was loved by all the political sphere because he was so good to the system (see Debbouze).
In France it's either you are zionist or a fascist, antisemitic etc. sorry but he has the right to express himself. And he does jokes about everyone not just jews.
Everything started when he was absolutely killed after Fogiel (I assume you are familiar with that). Like many, he is fed up with the influence of zionists in France that banned him from the media because he was merely criticizing Israel's violence. Before that episode he was loved by all the political sphere because he was so good to the system (see Debbouze).
In France it's either you are zionist or a fascist, antisemitic etc. sorry but he has the right to express himself. And he does jokes about everyone not just jews.
Yeah, people tend to be a bit precious about something that already lead to the systematic, methodical massacre of millions of people once.
This post is just so wrong. Imagine some local lads doing a nazi salute where you live. I bet you would say exactly the same thing; they did it because it was part of a comedy act that they watched. It seems that Tony Parker did it some time ago, but he actually apologised. Another thing, just to make things absolutely clear, there are comedians who use racial material in their one-man shows i.e. Bernard Manning. However, you will find that in real life he was not a racist and his next door neighbours, who were Indians, were actually great friends for many, many years and she couldn't say a bad word about him. On the otherhand, you have Dieudonné, who has these one-man shows as part of his comedy act, however, he ACTUALLY believes the stuff he comes out with and he absolutely means it at one hundred percent. Herein lies the difference. If Anelka wants to support a fascist, a racist (a bit like Suarez if you will) then so be it. It is his choice, but we cannot openly condemn Suarez and his ilk and then go around trying to support Anelka who could be sleeping in the same bed as his fascist "friend."
It's actually a bit more complicated than that. It was/is an 'anti system' gesture, which is what quite a few people use it as. The problem is that it's also been used in antisemitic mise-en-scène, at Auschwitz, in front of synagogues... The thing is that you're basically telling people what they think if you're saying broadly that it's anti semitic, I honestly believe a lot of people only do it as the anti system gesture. But everyone is being bundled together, and given its more recent twist in signification, I think people should stop using it altogether, it's confusing. I want to say 'it's a shame' as I think it was funny that you had such an anti establishment rally call, and basically the antisemites are being party poopers, but such is the society we live in nowadays. Anelka was silly if he thought he'd get away with it, for a multitude of reasons.
As for Dieudonné, he's a very confused man I think and is peddling some horrible stuff. Real shame, cos he was a fantastic comedian and one of the funniest in France. Sad turn he took. The French government isn't shining in a particular bright light at the moment with them forbidding his shows to take place.
I'm not "supporting" him. I'm saying he shouldn't be deemed to have committed a crime. If I saw people doing a nazi salute I'd think they're completely morons but I wouldn't want them behind bars to be honest.
Because everyone in France is after him, it is a big smoke screen in France to cover for one of the worst french president/governme t of all time because the guy is merely a comedian. Standing up for a friend in these circumstances shows that Anelka is a good man.
You are forgetting that this is the same country where Yasser Arafat was well cared for too...
Thank you.
Throughout this whole controversy, I've wanted to here an informed opinion on what this gesture actually is.
The 'journalists' in this country, have been content to call it 'controversial' briefly outlining why before leaving it.
I've not commented, because I am ignorant of the history, social impact and meaning of the gesture, but if what you say is accurate then Anelka deserves to get the book thrown at him.
At best, its downright stupidity on his part.
Read my post, I think PL is being too blunt in his assessment of the quenelle.
Anelka's gesture isn't going to lead to anyone feeling even the slightest prick. It's such a small deal. Attack his behaviour all you want but anyone being criminally prosecuted for that is ridiculous.
Hellboys posts in the Thomas Hitzlsperger thread suddenly make a lot more sense.
Yeah, a multi-millionaire footballer is really brave and heroic if he supports his friend with a gesture on a football pitch in a different country.
I think that's an unfortunate choice of words on your part.
Let's just say they are less surprising and fit his apparent character.
You do realize that's incorrect, right? If that's what bothers you, fair enough. But the reason Dieudonné is being condemned in court isn't because he believes that stuff. No one really cares what he believes.
The difference lies in the fact that you have a law in France on free speech with contains its limits and what constitutes an offence where you exceed your right to free speech. It's because he crossed that line that he's being convicted.
Sorry about that RiP. I liked Dieudoné just like you, but he has gone too far and he wants to continue going as far as possible. That is my take on it.
In what way Mockney? I haven't read his posts.
And the same country that betrayed De Gaulles joining NATO and led by the most zionist French government ever.
What?
Sorry? I think it is just a difference of opinion between you and me then. There is comedy, but then he takes it just a little bit too far. Plain and simple.
What the feck has that got to do with what you said? You're entitled to believe what you want about the quenelle, but don't present it as hard facts. If you've been following this story at all, you know that there's a lot of nuances of grey in there, and that the quenelle isn't as black and white as you're presenting it.
The constant incitement by a well-known comedian, however, is probably enough to make people feel threatened.
Besides, is anyone suggesting that Anelka should be prosecuted? The discussion regarding criminal responsibility was about what kind of acts should be prosecuted.
Still better than spitting on him like everyone.
Again, you're confused. I'm not saying what Dieudonné is doing is right, on the contrary. I'm just saying that when you write 'the difference is that he believes that shit' is completely incorrect. You could have Elie Semoun or Gad Elmaleh (Jewish comedians, for those who don't know them) spitting out the shit he does and not believing a single word of it, they'd still be doing something illegal. Surely you understand that what the law aims to punish isn't your thoughts?
I will reply to you once you have stopped using profanities.
Have you lot read Mr Cukierman's comments?
What?
What about unemployment ? Insecurity ? Europe ? Debt ?
Sure Dieudonné is a far more important subject.
Proud Lyon you can't be judged on what you think, just not yet !
Nope, haven't heard Elie or Gad spout the same rubbish as Dieudonné.
It's actually much more complicated than that, but Hollande hasn't got much to do with all of it.
It's especially part of Valls' (a member of government here) political agenda, that much is true, but I don't really see how that makes Anelka a hero here.
Are you even reading me? I never said they were.
I know, it is simply my opinion on the guy. Ever since he became a friend of the fascists in France, I disliked him simply because of his opinions.
You borrowed the same line as Marine LePen there...
I know, it is simply my opinion on the guy. Ever since he became a friend of the fascists in France, I disliked him simply because of his opinions.
You borrowed the same line as Marine LePen there...
Marine Le Pen can speak sense sometimes. I know what you mean but you can't attack Dieudo because you think that he thinks, he's a comedian and in a free country he can say what he wants as long as he is in the scene performing his show.
Perhaps there are different laws in France. I am not up with French law so, I cannot make a comment (as long as I pay my taxes and don't commit crimes then I am ok) unfortunately. In England, we are much more sensitive than the French.
As for their politics, Holland is a great example to the French people, which I am sure you are already aware of. He makes George Bush look like a saint in comparison.