Andy Mitten: The players aren't responding to the manager

[Sandikan]

Problem is if players like Casemiro and Varane are part of the clan too. These are players who have won it all, and if they've downed tools too then fair enough id see them leave but it doesn't look good on the manager.

The bit that does my head in is when people say ohh these players will get another manager sacked. When it's a totally different set of players to the last time.

The biggest worry player wise over the last decade is players seem to look really good elsewhere, then not here.
Some, like Martinez and Casemiro, storm in with superb form, but it then seems to tail off quite soon.

I don't know if the reality is that we watch every second of our games, and nowhere near the same amount of other teams. Probably a bit in that.

 

[gaffs]

So what? It doesn't mean he isn't prone to over exaggeration. I listen to his pod weekly and know all the speakers are prone to it.

Speaking of players in the collective sense is hyperbole. There may be a small handful but he worded it to make it sound worse than it likely is.

Spoke to Andy many a time outside of OT over the years and most recently in NJ for the pre-season friendly.

I don't believe he over exaggerates.

 

[Pscholes18]

What does that even mean?

Yeah, Sancho thinks he's getting shafted. Ok.
Probably Maguire also feels he's getting the shit end of the stick.
Scott isn't getting enough play time so he could feel shitty about it.

The rest?
They're either playing or they're injured.

Rashford seems to have downed tools. Can't really say why? His position is the same.

Scott doesn't seem the type to me, but he wants out for sure.

 

[Acquire Me]

Problem is if players like Casemiro and Varane are part of the clan too. These are players who have won it all, and if they've downed tools too then fair enough id see them leave but it doesn't look good on the manager.

It’s not fair enough. The players are paid handsomely to play for our club. The mentality of some players are mind boggling.

You see, every fecking manager we had the last 10 years are not at fault. It’s the same bullshit again and again. Mitten should out the players to save our club. These players are the real enemies.

 

[Pscholes18]

The only that looks like he has downed tools is Rashford, but he has always been a bit sulky and a confidence player so hard to use that as "evidence". Casemiro is just getting his flaws exposed massively (we saw glimpses of it even last year) and Bruno is just being Bruno at a larger extent - meaning he has always been perhaps the worst player to have on your team when things are not going well.

Yeah Rash is on the fence for me, I could totally see him ignoring orders but would Mr. Manchester really do that?

ETH is on the hot seat, might as well go out in a blaze of glory and bemch the players who arent doing what they are suppose to. Play the kids if need be. It would be a clear message. feck the senior players feelings.... stealing a paycheck game in game out.

 

[Lay]

I mean..its kind of obvious isn't it?

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

There’s a nice Venn diagram of managers who “lose the dressing room” and players that have consistently been here through 2-3 instances at least, but I won’t get into it.

 

[iammemphis]

It’s not fair enough. The players are paid handsomely to play for our club. The mentality of some players are mind boggling.

You see, every fecking manager we had the last 10 years are not at fault. It’s the same bullshit again and again. Mitten should out the players to save our club. These players are the real enemies.

My bad for the poor grammar, i meant "fair enough, id see them leave" rather then fair enough for them downing tools . I want them rid to be honest if they don't want to play for the manager.

 

[11101]

No you're right, I remember when people said it was Rooney leaking stuff, Lingard leaking stuff, then Henderson, then Ronaldo etc etc rinse and repeat.

Yet it still happens, I highly doubt any player at United will speak to the likes of Mitten off the record in full confidence and trust that their name won't come to light.
It's not worth it for a player, why else would Sancho use social media as a vent against the manager when he could have used Mitten to write a story about how hard he is trying in training?!

Honestly, it's make zero sense and is probably really just a way for people to name players they don't really like.

It's far more likely backroom staff rather than playing staff that speak to Mitten, they stand to lose a lot less and gain a lot more from doing so.

Do you know anybody who works for a sports or media PR agency? Ask them how it works. Footballers and other high profile people employ armies of people to plant favourable stories about them.

Most reputable journalists won't print something unless it's been verified by at least two people who would know. Mitten will be talking to people in the dressing room.

 

[VP89]

Spoke to Andy many a time outside of OT over the years and most recently in NJ for the pre-season friendly.

I don't believe he over exaggerates.

Thats great, but he does in his podcasts. A case in point is this quote "I know for a fact the players aren't responding to the manager".

He has made it sound like the dressing room has turned, when in reality it's likely a small handful.

 

[The Urban Goose]

This is what happens when absent, passive owners who aren’t interested in results don’t put their foot down. The owners need to have the manager’s back on things like this.

We’ve more than likely got some players that have shit attitudes but I swear a change of ownership with owners who are focused on us winning, and those players will either be falling in line or be sold off in the next window.

Exactly. The players have done this time and again, and will keep doing so until the owners put the manager in a position where he can drop them and then sell them. Instead he's still lumbered with Maguire etc.

 

[Red For Ever]

We have players who do not appear to have been bothered when playing under different managers, so that does not make sense, I'm sure not everyone loves ETH, just as not everyone loved SAF, but if you can't perform under several different managers, you are the problem.

On the pitch I expect everyone to do the best they can, and not blame someone else because they are not as good as they thought they were.
Too many average, overpaid time wasters clogging up our changing rooms for a few years now.

 

[Bastian]

If anyone actually listens to what he said, you will realise it's a pretty meaningless throw away comment which fans are now overanalysing and making Mount Everest from an ant hill

Mitten is not trying to suggest that there is some mutiny or players giving up or anything like that

I listened to it and the "I know for a fact" bit was the thing that caught me, "I speak to people". It's not a throwaway comment. It was the most interesting bit in that whole pod (which was a bit tedious). I take it that it either means he's lost the dressing room or they cannot execute what he's asking them to do. With the former, he's obviously not lost the players he has identified and brought in so he's got an insurance policy there. He's also promoted some young players who will likely stand by him and we see that they work really hard for the team when selected, so I have absolutely no worries about them (Garnacho, Mejbri, Gore, Pellistri). He drafted in Evans and was impressed by his personality, I think he'll be an asset to him in the dressing room and he'll likely be horrified by the culture that's within the club.

Someone here said he has to boot out the players he doesn't want. He tried that. Murtough and co. briefed the press numerous times this summer, even specified the required transfer fees (which was daft) but the club refused to take a hit (as with Maguire and the pay-off) or going up a gear in getting rid. That's a pretty crazy scenario, having all those players who are known to be unwanted and leaving the manager to deal with it.

If Mitten is talking about being able to carry out the tactical requirements, then that's something we have known since before he arrived. We knew which players would definitely not suit (de Gea, Maguire, and then the better players, like Bruno and Rashford, obviously Ronaldo too). The hope was that some of the better players would be able to adapt, and maybe they still can. They do however have to know they are not guaranteed their place, and in Rashford's case we have a major prospect vying for his place.

Anyhow, I thought this was interesting coming from Mitten. Hope he elaborates on it. He'll be reading this thread no question.

 

[Castia]

Stop picking them then. Seriously out the lot of them and play with reserve players.

We’d soon see who the troublemakers are and just like Sancho the lot of them will be sulking in a corner.

 

[RVN1991]

Get rid of the ones that aren't "responding" then. Ralf for all his shortcomings as manager had it nailed on when he hinted that most of the squad needed replacing and for the love of god get a fecking director of football in there to take care of the transfers.

 

[TMDaines]

I listened to it and the "I know for a fact" bit was the thing that caught me, "I speak to people". It's not a throwaway comment. It was the most interesting bit in that whole pod (which was a bit tedious). I take it that it either means he's lost the dressing room or they cannot execute what he's asking them to do.

You are taking it out of context and it is more the latter than the former. He doesn't mention him having lost the dressing room or anything like it, but implies more a disconnect between the manager wanting his team to do X, but that not manifesting on the pitch.

It is around 9:00 mins into the Talk of the Devils podcast with my adverts for anyone who wants to listen themselves.

 

[Bastian]

You are taking it out of context and it is more the latter than the former. He doesn't mention him having lost the dressing room or anything like it, but implies more a disconnect between the manager wanting his team to do X, but that not manifesting on the pitch.

It is around 9:00 mins into the Talk of the Devils podcast with my adverts for anyone who wants to listen themselves.

If by taking it out of context you mean I didn't transcribe the whole pod, then yes.

In case of a disconnect between manager and players what we are seeing is periods in games where we are playing well and periods where it all goes to shit. Something I'd expect when trying to change a counter attacking team into a progressive team, but he's obviously not innocent in this himself, and there are failures on all sides. Even so, there'll be growing pains.

 

[TMDaines]

If by taking it out of context you mean I didn't transcribe the whole pod, then yes.

In case of a disconnect between manager and players what we are seeing is periods in games where we are playing well and periods where it all goes to shit. Something I'd expect when trying to change a counter attacking team into a progressive team, but he's obviously not innocent in this himself, and there are failures on all sides. Even so, there'll be growing pains.

Your OP is misleading, but later on in the thread you explain more fully, and we have come to a similar conclusion.

As you say, it is self-evident that the players obviously aren't delivering what the manager wants and it seems apparent to me that probably have doubts about the instructions, as we keep starting well and then crumble after a setback or later on in matches. That doesn't mean the manager has lost the dressing room, but they don't have that unwavering belief yet. The manager is accountable for instilling that.

 

[El Jefe]

I hate how there’s a lack of distinction when it comes to the squad.
Saying “the players” is a lot more eye catching than saying a few or a couple. Painting the whole squad with the same brush is just more rage bait for people in the media.

A team of our standing that loses 6 of their first 10 games will have issue, no shit.

 

[gaffs]

Thats great, but he does in his podcasts. A case in point is this quote "I know for a fact the players aren't responding to the manager".

He has made it sound like the dressing room has turned, when in reality it's likely a small handful.

You're in manager defense mode, so anything that is said you see as a dig at the manager.

It could equally mean that they are not responding to that instruction that are given, which I think Stevie Wonder could see right now.

This is highlighted here...



If Andy had information that Ten Hag had "lost the dressing room" he would have said that.

 

[Withnail]

I’d encourage you to listen to it all but from the 8th minute onwards.

Not much in that really. He says 'I can see with my eyes' and 'I talk to people around the club' and he's right some players aren't. We can all see that in the performances.

I will say these things can turn around quite quickly, get a few good results, get a few injured players back and suddenly everyone's feeling good about themselves again. Problem is they don't seem to have the confidence in themselves when things go against them.

 

[Red Rash]

Problem is if players like Casemiro and Varane are part of the clan too. These are players who have won it all, and if they've downed tools too, then fair enough id see them leave, but it doesn't look good on the manager.

I may be totally wrong but I'd honestly doubt it. I think Casemiro and Varane are too good professionals to down tools. Varane wasn't good on Tuesday but is generally a reliable performer. Likewise Casemiro gives his all even if some of his recent performances are patchy.

 

[RuudTom83]

Controlling the dressing room comes under Bruno's list of duties...but as the number 1 moaner in the club he might actually make morale worse not better.

 

[steffyr2]

The not responding to the manager bit was set in motion by CR7's behavior. Storming off the pitch, the Piers interview etc. The other players would've looked up to him and taken his behavior as model, which makes the Sancho situation and any subsequent dressing room discontent far less surprising. EtH is light years away from peak Fergie in terms of how to deal with this sort of thing, so we are where we are.

Wasn't there a thing about Ronaldo wanting more training and other players rejecting that?

EtH is having issues dealing with lots of people. Ronaldo, who has to be one of the most driven, was just early on.

I think the players will notice when the manager can't or won't compensate for changes on the field (other manager's actions or going down to 10 men, for heaven's sake!). Some of them must look at the manager and assume he's just incompetent.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Not much in that really. He says 'I can see with my eyes' and 'I talk to people around the club' and he's right some players aren't. We can all see that in the performances.

Exactly. He also does not use the much stronger phrase "know for a fact" which the thread headline is putting out there.

 

[90 + 5min]

We have players who do not appear to have been bothered when playing under different managers, so that does not make sense, I'm sure not everyone loves ETH, just as not everyone loved SAF, but if you can't perform under several different managers, you are the problem.

On the pitch I expect everyone to do the best they can, and not blame someone else because they are not as good as they thought they were.
Too many average, overpaid time wasters clogging up our changing rooms for a few years now.

Correct.

 

[Champ]

Do you know anybody who works for a sports or media PR agency? Ask them how it works. Footballers and other high profile people employ armies of people to plant favourable stories about them.

Most reputable journalists won't print something unless it's been verified by at least two people who would know. Mitten will be talking to people in the dressing room.

And you think Mitten doesn't know which PR company is working for which player etc?
Again, there's far too much to lose for the player, hence the reason Sancho was hitting EtH on social media.
If Sancho had so many media friends why didn't he just 'plant' a story?
Why didn't Ronaldo just 'plant' a story instead of using Piers fecking Morgan?
Why didn't Maguire just 'plant' a story about how mistreated he was instead of having a sit down interview with the times or Sky Sports...
Etc etc ad infinitum

Mitten will be talking to people on the dressing room for sure, but it won't be the players often, if ever, it will be staff members.

 

[sengineer]

Whether Mitten's statement has actually come from a reliable source or not; many know that is not some startling news. We see it on the pitch that there is a divide and anyone who wants to solely blame the manager needs to realize that, this nonsense has been happening for a long time. Sir Alex's success was achieved on the foundation that he was in charge, no one was bigger than the club and that he had the final say (execs knew it). Based on the players during his time, if you really wanted to fight the manager, you either showed it on the pitch with a magnificent performance or you left.
These clowns we have today definitely think they are bigger than the club. The additional problem we have is that the upper executive idiots restricted the manager on getting rid of those players without an acceptable sale price.Yes, some of his decisions were mind-boggling during games, but Sir Alex too made some weird game decisions at times. Ten Hag has a definitive plan on who he chooses as the player for this approach...not necessarily all about the skill but rather the personality. This team will eventually find the direction of play they need and identity once we get rid of the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Mguire and Sancho. We got rid of LVG, Mourinho all too fast and Ragnick was not a good coach but he saw the rot.

 

[VP89]

You're in manager defense mode, so anything that is said you see as a dig at the manager.

It could equally mean that they are not responding to that instruction that are given, which I think Stevie Wonder could see right now.

This is highlighted here...



If Andy had information that Ten Hag had "lost the dressing room" he would have said that.

I'm in no mode, Mitten said the players aren't listening, which is worded in a more exaggerative way than what is evidently happening on the pitch. I can certainly believe a couple aren't and that's not exactly inside information, we can fecking see that for ourselves

Pointing to a tifo video proves nothing by the way.

 

[Lash]

Not much in that really. He says 'I can see with my eyes' and 'I talk to people around the club' and he's right some players aren't. We can all see that in the performances.

I will say these things can turn around quite quickly, get a few good results, get a few injured players back and suddenly everyone's feeling good about themselves again. Problem is they don't seem to have the confidence in themselves when things go against them.

This is the real issue, they had a good conversation about the rashford chance and summed up how I think a lot of players are feeling at the moment. This is going to be down to the manager to sort out, but the players appear to be very soft mentally, if they can't get over the fact they're asked to put in a bit more effort to play transitional football and affects their confidence in their abilities that much.

 

[pocco]

Ten Hag might be gone soon, then. If the players have decided, then he's fecked. That's how it works at this club. When your board is so spineless.

What's the alternative? I'd agree with other managers we've had, but ETH has signed half of these players.

 

[gaffs]

I'm in no mode, Mitten said the players aren't listening, which is worded in a more exaggerative way than what is evidently happening on the pitch. I can certainly believe a couple aren't and that's not exactly inside information, we can fecking see that for ourselves

Pointing to a tifo video proves nothing by the way.

He didn't say there are not listening. If he did - tell me the min and second of the podcast where he says that?

 

[pocco]

I'm only guessing but I suspect that half of the problem is the way he blames them for everything, even when he gets it wrong. It's always 'they didn't follow instructions ' etc. If they're on the pitch and they feel like they're following instructions, but it's leading to us getting beat and outplayed by pretty much anyone, then they will lose faith.

Against Brighton for example, if our LW is told to press the CB and this leaves their RB free for an easy ball out every time, what do you do? Ignore the manager or do as you're told? We're all over the place constantly, there's no game management from ETH, no solutions. If you're asked to do the same thing and it has the same results, eventually you will just think the manager doesn't know what he's talking about.

There's so many tactical issues that I refuse to believe they aren't down to the manager. If players were deciding to do what we see, every game, then no manager would continue to play them. So I can only conclude that what they are doing is part of the plan.

 

[Amar__]

If you keep playing players who aren't listening to you, then you only have yourself to blame. Especially when those same players could get you sacked in next few months.

 

[VP89]

He didn't say there are not listening. If he did - tell me the min and second of the podcast where he says that?

Apologies - a harmless paraphrase of "not responding"

 

[Blood Mage]

Rashford has been the one consistent disruptive presence throughout all of this IMO. He believes his own hype, thinks he's as big as the club itself and falls out with any manager that tells him to raise his standards and work harder for the team.

 

[DatIrishFella]

There's so many rats in this squad. Absolute cowards. Always willing to put the blame on the manager.

How is not being able to directly string 4-passes on the manager? Its the fecking football 101?

 

[11101]

And you think Mitten doesn't know which PR company is working for which player etc?
Again, there's far too much to lose for the player, hence the reason Sancho was hitting EtH on social media.
If Sancho had so many media friends why didn't he just 'plant' a story?
Why didn't Ronaldo just 'plant' a story instead of using Piers fecking Morgan?
Why didn't Maguire just 'plant' a story about how mistreated he was instead of having a sit down interview with the times or Sky Sports...
Etc etc ad infinitum

Mitten will be talking to people on the dressing room for sure, but it won't be the players often, if ever, it will be staff members.

I'm afraid thats just not how it works. My wife's best mate ran PR for a player who is the subject of another current thread, they were always dropping stories in the press. You can guarantee it will be the same with our club.

 

[Rood]

I listened to it and the "I know for a fact" bit was the thing that caught me, "I speak to people". It's not a throwaway comment. It was the most interesting bit in that whole pod (which was a bit tedious). I take it that it either means he's lost the dressing room or they cannot execute what he's asking them to do. With the former, he's obviously not lost the players he has identified and brought in so he's got an insurance policy there. He's also promoted some young players who will likely stand by him and we see that they work really hard for the team when selected, so I have absolutely no worries about them (Garnacho, Mejbri, Gore, Pellistri). He drafted in Evans and was impressed by his personality, I think he'll be an asset to him in the dressing room and he'll likely be horrified by the culture that's within the club.

Someone here said he has to boot out the players he doesn't want. He tried that. Murtough and co. briefed the press numerous times this summer, even specified the required transfer fees (which was daft) but the club refused to take a hit (as with Maguire and the pay-off) or going up a gear in getting rid. That's a pretty crazy scenario, having all those players who are known to be unwanted and leaving the manager to deal with it.

If Mitten is talking about being able to carry out the tactical requirements, then that's something we have known since before he arrived. We knew which players would definitely not suit (de Gea, Maguire, and then the better players, like Bruno and Rashford, obviously Ronaldo too). The hope was that some of the better players would be able to adapt, and maybe they still can. They do however have to know they are not guaranteed their place, and in Rashford's case we have a major prospect vying for his place.

Anyhow, I thought this was interesting coming from Mitten. Hope he elaborates on it. He'll be reading this thread no question.

I think you and others have inferred a lot from very little to be honest - at least you have listened to it though, I bet the majority who are commenting have not even listened to it!
By the way, he doesn't actually say the words in the subject line here at any point.

As far as I'm concerned it was a relatively meaningless comment, more along the lines of 'the players are not managing to deliver the manager's tactical plan' and certainly not talking about having lost the dressing room or anything like that.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

There’s only one winner if this is true sadly. If another manager goes after players down tools then it proves that Murtough and Arnold are useless and haven’t learned lessons of the previous incumbents.

We’re doomed to live this cycle again and again. A lot of these players aren’t good enough yet I get the feeling they believe they are topdogs.