Andy Mitten: The players aren't responding to the manager

crossy1686 said:
If you’re saying this then you’ve got no idea just how well connected Mitten is at United and has been since the 90’s.
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He'd have to be incredibly "well connected" to surmise that we're not responding well to the manager after our worst ever start.

Next he'll be reckoning that the takeover isn't as straight forward as we'd hoped.
Or that Man City are well ahead of United on almost every metric.

:lol:
 
As in all of them, including the ones he brought in? Or just the players from the previous regime? And yes that matters, a lot.
 
Jacko21 said:
Listening at the time, it was said with a more of a concerned tone - rather than being completely alarmist.

The transcript:

Mitten: “I can’t understand why the players are not responding to the manger”

Irving: “D’you think they’re not responding to the manger then?”

Mitten: “I know they’re not responding to the manger. I speak to people. I see it with my own eyes”
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Shoots himself in the foot with that last line. Anybody can see it with their own eyes, but it doesn't sound like he has anything concrete or credible.
 
DickDastardly said:
What does that even mean?

Yeah, Sancho thinks he's getting shafted. Ok.
Probably Maguire also feels he's getting the shit end of the stick.
Scott isn't getting enough play time so he could feel shitty about it.

The rest?
They're either playing or they're injured.

Rashford seems to have downed tools. Can't really say why? His position is the same.
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In what way do you reckon this?
Versus simply having lost his form. He's had wild sweeps of great form and poor form in his whole career here.
What makes you think as a local lad that in any sense he has "downed tools" i.e. stopped making any effort!?
 
The only way to rebuild a team is to
  • Favour hard working and loyal players, on behalf of quality or stars if necessary.
  • Offload players who ain’t committed
  • Bring in young and hungry talents with the right profile (personality)
United should learn from Arsenal. Arteta so to say changed the whole team in less than 3y and today it’s a new young team. Many players have also been developed or taken steps in their own system.
 
Champ said:
Not quite true, and even if it was why would you then assume it was them leaking inside stories?

Seems like quite the leap to suggest that.
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It makes sense that the players who have been at the club longest and those who are English would have the best links with the English press. And also that those underperforming and under pressure would be least happy with the situation.

This isn't the first time we've been down this road remember.
 
VP89 said:
He dropped ronaldo like a sack of potatoes and disciplined him. Of course ten hag got him out, it was very well played by Ten Hag to be fair. Ronaldo just imploded and it handed the club a reason to let go.

Ten hag and the club almost sold Maguire by the way, it was him that rejected West Ham, not the club.
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That’s an odd way of looking at it. Ronaldo made it clear he wanted to leave, didn’t he? I’m guessing the move happened because both the player and the club (which could be EtH, or could be the owners, who knows) wanted it.
 
MayfieldsFinest said:
Drop them and bring in youth players. The cycle has to stop.... THE PLAYERS ARE THE PROBLEM.
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The squad now is different from the squad previous managers had. This is largely a Ten Hag team - and the players being a/the problem is also not mutually exclusive with Ten Hag being a/the problem
 
11101 said:
It makes sense that the players who have been at the club longest and those who are English would have the best links with the English press. And also that those underperforming and under pressure would be least happy with the situation.

This isn't the first time we've been down this road remember.
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No you're right, I remember when people said it was Rooney leaking stuff, Lingard leaking stuff, then Henderson, then Ronaldo etc etc rinse and repeat.

Yet it still happens, I highly doubt any player at United will speak to the likes of Mitten off the record in full confidence and trust that their name won't come to light.
It's not worth it for a player, why else would Sancho use social media as a vent against the manager when he could have used Mitten to write a story about how hard he is trying in training?!

Honestly, it's make zero sense and is probably really just a way for people to name players they don't really like.

It's far more likely backroom staff rather than playing staff that speak to Mitten, they stand to lose a lot less and gain a lot more from doing so.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Anybody can see it with their own eyes, but it doesn't sound like he has anything concrete or credible.
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He can't very well name the people he's spoken to.

Look, I've been very critical about the style Mitten has gone for after he went mainstream: I know something, but I can't really say...

But he isn't a random journo making up stuff for clicks.
 
Polar said:
The only way to rebuild a team is to
  • Favour hard working and loyal players, on behalf of quality or stars if necessary.
  • Offload players who ain’t committed
  • Bring in young and hungry talents with the right profile (personality)
United should learn from Arsenal. Arteta so to say changed the whole team in less than 3y and today it’s a new young team. Many players have also been developed or taken steps in their own system.
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Problem is, what happens to the good, motivated players who genuinely want to stay, and want to win things, when they see their talented teammates (potentially friends) being sold or dropped in favour of hard workers and untested youngsters? It’s a really tough one for ten Hag to manage; I imagine it’s really difficult to persuade a player aged say 28 or over, that you’re doing a factory reset of the club, and may miss out on trophies or CL participation. But with the aim that in 2 or 3 seasons you’ll be competitive again.
 
Velvet Revolver said:
This is what i dont understand, why our managers insist on playing people who are not following orders. Managers usually end up on the stick while these average players continue to get away with it.
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You ll need Murtough and Arnold to assure ETH to do whatever is necessary, however big the player is. I am not sure ETH has been given that kind of authority. If ETH drops Rashford tomorrow and tells press dropped due to bad form, the press will write all kinds of negative stories about United and ETH. This club worries a lot about negative PR. They will ask ETH to sort it out with Rashford and bring him back.
 
I find it funny when people say 'these players have thrown managers under the bus before'. There's only Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Shaw, Lindelof and Dalot left from Mourinho's squad.

Of those, only Rashford and Shaw would have any power in the dressing room and both of them have had arguably their best seasons at the club under Ten Hag. Moreover, if Ten Hag has shown he's not afraid to drop big names or negative influences (Maguire, Sancho, Ronaldo) then why wouldn't he have gotten rid of them last year after their worst seasons at the club? I seem to recall many fans being indifferent to Rashford being sold after 21/22 and his 4 goals.
 
I think we're at a Rubicon moment. This is either the equivalent of Ferguson getting rid of McGrath and Whiteside, much to the consternation of the fans (I was around then), or it is the beginning of the end for Ten Hag. The Ralf Rangnick side should not exist in 18 months.
 
el3mel said:
Eh.. I don't buy this conspiracy narrative. The players were clearly trying against Galatasaray. They were either clueless or just crap, but I saw no lack of efforts or sulking on the pitch. Dalot didn't make these mistakes because he was conspiring on Ten Hag. He made them because he's just a crap player, but he was clearly trying his best.
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There's trying, and there's trying while adhering to the instructions of the manager.
 
led_scholes said:
I don't think he got rid of Ronaldo. If it was on the owners hand, Ronaldo would have still be here. He just gave an interview where he accused them too.

I think we saw that ETH wanted to get rid of Maguire and Sancho in the summer. They are still here.
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Mainly because they refused to leave. Neither are anywhere near the starting team though. My point remains, Ten Hag is not afraid to banish players who do not follow his directions. We’ve seen often enough it’s him way or the highway. Ronaldo, De Gea, Maguire, Sancho. If there are players in the first team who are not doing what he wants they will be gone soon too.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He can't very well name the people he's spoken to.

Look, I've been very critical about the style Mitten has gone for after he went mainstream: I know something, but I can't really say...

But he isn't a random journo making up stuff for clicks.
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He isn't making stuff up, he's just saying what he thinks is obvious. Maybe it's because of low confidence? He doesn't give a reason why, just tells us what we already see.
 
crossy1686 said:
He regularly meets with the likes of Murtough off the record and knows the whole coaching staff and the players. He also doesn’t say stuff like this lightly for the attention, he’s already the go to for United journalists.
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So Murtough er al are actively briefing against the manager?

Gosh. It’s impressive that the players show as much desire as they do given the impossibly toxic environment they must work in.
 
NicolaSacco said:
Problem is, what happens to the good, motivated players who genuinely want to stay, and want to win things, when they see their talented teammates (potentially friends) being sold or dropped in favour of hard workers and untested youngsters? It’s a really tough one for ten Hag to manage; I imagine it’s really difficult to persuade a player aged say 28 or over, that you’re doing a factory reset of the club, and may miss out on trophies or CL participation. But with the aim that in 2 or 3 seasons you’ll be competitive again.
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Is it that hard to manage though? As long as ETH is being open and honest about his decisions and why, and then consistent with it, it should be pretty manageable. I get that players might not be happy, but thats just where we are and the choice is simple - accept it and stay, or leave. Of course that only works in a functional club where the manager has backing and the players know it. I suppose it will be the same old story of ETH's authority appearing undermined, either because he is having to play certain players when fit due to instructions, or because he has favourites and is stupid.
 
NinjaZombie said:
There's trying, and there's trying while adhering to the instructions of the manager.
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His instructions might crap or unclear.

The players might not be able to follow these instructions because their ability sucks.

A lot of logical reasons other than conspiracy theories.
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
Ten Hag has had no problem weeding out problem players and making huge calls. He got rid of Ronaldo who is probably the most well know sporting figure on the planet. Whether or not that was correct is potentially up for debate but what isn’t up for debate is if ten Hag has the balls to make big calls or not. He 100% has. So if there are players in this dressing room and team that aren’t responding to him, firstly he won’t play them and then he will get rid of them too.
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Ronaldo problem was technical and ageing, his commitment and professionalism was never in question

So now we know why our sets of players don't like Ronaldo, his standard is too demanding.

Getting rid of Ronaldo was easy when you have the dressing room
 
mu4c_20le said:
He isn't making stuff up, he's just saying what he thinks is obvious. Maybe it's because of low confidence? He doesn't give a reason why, just tells us what we already see.
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Yes, but he also says that he's talked to people.

He does have connections at United.

In an era where pretty much everything we do gets leaked, I don't see it as outlandish that Mitten (who has been proven to have genuine sources in the past) actually has talked to someone.
 
bstb3 said:
Is it that hard to manage though? As long as ETH is being open and honest about his decisions and why, and then consistent with it, it should be pretty manageable. I get that players might not be happy, but thats just where we are and the choice is simple - accept it and stay, or leave. Of course that only works in a functional club where the manager has backing and the players know it. I suppose it will be the same old story of ETH's authority appearing undermined, either because he is having to play certain players when fit due to instructions, or because he has favourites and is stupid.
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I get what you’re saying. I do think it’s really tough to do right though. SAF managed it a few times, in part due to him just genuinely being excellent at making those judgement calls, his great interpersonal relationship building, and probably in part due to having such control and staying power at the club that very few dared to go against him. I guess I’m just thinking that for a manger like EtH who maybe doesn’t have all those advantages, is having a difficult spell, and perhaps hasn’t fully proved himself to everyone at the club, it involves quite a lot of risk on his part. I agree in principle though, that IF it can be done it should be done. I just have my doubts that he’ll be able to survive as manager if he ends up with something similar to the back-to-back 8th place finishes that Arteta had.
 
iHicksy said:
You do realize those players are the ones already not starting right? ETH isn't stupid, he see's which ones apply themselves in training and respond or not.

It's going to be the likes of Sancho, Maguire, McT. E.g players he wants gone because they won't adapt to his methods.
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I doubt it, Maguire / McT / Sancho downing tools has no bearing because ... they seldom play

It's the main squad that's giving him problem, because they are playing and not performing.
 
I am absolutely beyond sick of this football club, it's hard to give two shites one way or the other about this fecking shitshow. Fair play to Mitten for trying to earn an honest crust by trawling through it all.
 
There's not many people around United whose word I would take more seriously.

People can dismiss this if they want, but it's quite a worrying sign for me. I had hoped that maybe a few were causing problems, but that the rest were at least trying. If a large group just don't believe in ETH then we're in for a very tough few months.

Personally I hope the fans can focus their energies on helping remove the leeches, rather than piling pressure on the squad and manager. But we've seen this play out before.
 
NicolaSacco said:
That’s an odd way of looking at it. Ronaldo made it clear he wanted to leave, didn’t he? I’m guessing the move happened because both the player and the club (which could be EtH, or could be the owners, who knows) wanted it.
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It's not an odd way of looking at it. Ronaldo threw strops and wanted to leave after Ten Hag disciplined him - the Spurs game was the one which broke the camels back and had him run away for an interview.
 
Sandikan said:
In what way do you reckon this?
Versus simply having lost his form. He's had wild sweeps of great form and poor form in his whole career here.
What makes you think as a local lad that in any sense he has "downed tools" i.e. stopped making any effort!?
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Well, he looks sad at first glance.

There might be a million things going on in his private life we're unaware of.
It might also be a row with the manager.
Or just having to take sides in the Sancho incident might be taking it's toll.

I have zero ideas.

But what I can tell, it's not just a simple case of losing his form.
As far as we know, he's not injured.

He's just not mentally there, in the game.
 
VP89 said:
It's not an odd way of looking at it. Ronaldo threw strops and wanted to leave after Ten Hag disciplined him - the Spurs game was the one which broke the camels back and had him run away for an interview.
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I think that from the summer onwards there were rumours that he wanted to leave. Neither of us can prove it either way, but I don’t think you can confidently state who made the first move here. Seems clear to me that both parties were happy to come to the arrangement they eventually did.
 
It doesn’t take a genius to see that they aren’t responding to the manager.
 
NicolaSacco said:
I think that from the summer onwards there were rumours that he wanted to leave. Neither of us can prove it either way, but I don’t think you can confidently state who made the first move here. Seems clear to me that both parties were happy to come to the arrangement they eventually did.
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I dont recall any rumours that he wanted to leave.

In any case, the point I'm making is Ten Hag had the freedom to drop and discipline him and that's where it came to a sudden halt. Ronaldo leaving mid season through an angry interview was never part of the plan, it was Ten Hag pissing him off by asking him to do his job.
 
gaffs said:
You should probably read up on who Andy Mitten is. He has forgotten more information about MUFC than most fans will ever know.
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So what? It doesn't mean he isn't prone to over exaggeration. I listen to his pod weekly and know all the speakers are prone to it.

Speaking of players in the collective sense is hyperbole. There may be a small handful but he worded it to make it sound worse than it likely is.
 
Problem is if players like Casemiro and Varane are part of the clan too. These are players who have won it all, and if they've downed tools too, then fair enough id see them leave, but it doesn't look good on the manager.
 
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VP89 said:
I dont recall any rumours that he wanted to leave.

In any case, the point I'm making is Ten Hag had the freedom to drop and discipline him and that's where it came to a sudden halt. Ronaldo leaving mid season through an angry interview was never part of the plan, it was Ten Hag pissing him off by asking him to do his job.
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Yep, you might be right. Definitely looks like the right thing for both parties at this point.
 
I think it is BS. But it is true then we need to for once stand behind the manager and weed out these players.
 
I think you are quoting him out of context and doing him a disservice.
 
If true it's another reason for me why we should allow ETH time to try and work through this tough period. If players feel like they can just down tools and let the manager take all the fallout every time things get rough then they're never going to be motivated to reflect on their own responsibility and take steps to improve their performance. If we were to get a new manager tomorrow then you can bet the players would all find another gear in the next few matches but there's absolutely nothing stopping them having the same approach under ETH, it's just that they know it's an option to stop trying and not face the consequences.

If we allow ETH the chance to fix things and show that he's not going anywhere then we take that power away from the players and they have no choice but to find their form under the current manager and fall in line. Of course it all depends on how much faith the people in power have in Erik, if they can see he's doing all the right things but is being undermined then they absolutely have to stand by him but if there's behind the scenes stuff that explain why the players have responded this way then his days are numbered. I think one of the reasons Arsenal, City and Liverpool are in the positions they are is because the players don't have the option of "downing tools until the managers gone" because they'll be out the door before him, unfortunately it can take going through a rough patch to reinforce this but it will be worth it in the long run IF it's the right manager.
 
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