Seems to me that's on the players. Imagine if city had sacked Pep for "complicated" instructions. If we just keep sacking managers because they're tactics are too advanced for our caveman then we'll always struggle. This isn't new either, we had similar issues under LvG. I remember complaints from players that it was too much information. Some players thrive off it, a number of players that worked under pep and even Arteta now have said they changed the way they see football. The majority of ours seem to go "ouchie too many words hurts brain".
Andy Mitten: The players aren't responding to the manager
- Thread starter Bastian
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Seems to me that's on the players. Imagine if city had sacked Pep for "complicated" instructions. If we just keep sacking managers because they're tactics are too advanced for our caveman then we'll always struggle. This isn't new either, we had similar issues under LvG. I remember complaints from players that it was too much information. Some players thrive off it, a number of players that worked under pep and even Arteta now have said they changed the way they see football. The majority of ours seem to go "ouchie too many words hurts brain".
I would expect by this point that players simply had certain concrete targets they had to achieve in matches that could be measured, and they'd be dropped if they didn't achieve them. That seems to be where we're at with some of them.
From the guys doing the podcast who say there hasn't been any technical training since April?
Mitten literally says it's partly on both the players and the manager.
Didn't seem to affect other clubs though, it's not like we were the only PL team to go globetrotting
We played more games than anybody else except City last season and had the worst globetrotting schedule. It’s something like 33k air miles in 18 days + training and matches.
We actually played more games than City last season. 62, which is 13 more (roughly a third of a league campaign) than Arsenal.
Aside from being the only team to hit 5 different countries in the summer, the journeying from the east coast of the US, to the west, and then the deep south was extremely poor planning in footballing terms. The players barely saw the same patch of grass two days running. Additionally, the squad was split up twice due to fixtures being scheduled on consecutive days. Preseason was solely a commercial operation, and had pretty much nothing to do with getting players ready for the season.
These are all things that would not be allowed by an ownership that had any care or understanding of football. At United, they are instead insisted upon.
There are still, i think, nine players that i counted that are on their 5th season or more at United; there's definitely a bit of a survivor culture still at the club and i had hoped that by getting rid of players like DDG and Fred (ironically two of the better players of the old boys group) that we were fixing this. If EtH goes then even someone like Maguire or AwB will be on their fourth manager in that time.
People that are suspicious of the players are probably referring to a culture in the dressing room that just perpetuates itself with the addition of more problem players such as Sancho.
Mitten isn't some oracle - he's getting his information from the players who he needs to keep on side to keep feeding him. The players are hardly going to blame themselves and then tell him that are they. We've had 6 managers come through the door and they've all had the exact same problems in terms of attitude and or tactics. It isn't the manager. There's only one constant here.
Yes, I think we all can agree on that. It's a different topic, though.
It's just that those players (not talking about Sancho, of course) are the ones seemingly giving their all in the current situation. While one might question their talents, it doesn't look to me that the likes of McTominay, Maguire and Bissaka are the ones lowering their tools, or looking for the manager to be sacked, being Ole or Ten Hag.
Nonetheless, I expect us to kick back and somehow rescue the season, at least when we're getting more players back from injury. Then, as well all know, topics like this will stop occurring in the media.
He's a good bloke is Mitten, Utd as they come but christ I'd take his football analysis with a serious pinch of salt.
Our squad is Lennie Small.
Our players must be the only bunch who complain that too much data is being given too them. Every other team seems to fare better with details.
They're just a thick bunch really. Proper 'bottom class in school' kind of mental calibre.
They're just a thick bunch really. Proper 'bottom class in school' kind of mental calibre.
I hope the injured players come back quickly. I want EtH to succeed here and i'm hoping he can string a few results together to ease the pressure and get those players back.
To be honest though, although McTominay has been playing well, there have been signs earlier on in the season where you looked at his workrate and thought 'he's not exactly sprinting or fighting for every ball" , he's doing pretty well in the last few games but the problem with him and Maguire is that they had to go in the summer to speed up the rebuild and they're still here.
Also, regarding player culture, it might not actually be just a case of bad attitudes but a mentality issue. I look at Dalot, Lindelof, Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Maguire, all players that have been five years or more and play pretty regularly and i don't see really tough winners with a United mentality. People might add Bruno to that list but i disagree with that one.
I think Mitten has a point, if they're not taking on your instructions, you can't keep doing thing exactly the same and expecting them to get it. That says a lot more about the players than Ten Hag, but it does show a lack of adaptability from Ten Hag, which could ultimately lose him his job if he doesn't find a way of getting through to some of the players.
Maybe the more interesting question would be which players are responding to the manager or following his instructions? Antony? Mount? Casimiro?
In my opinion, to paraphrase Sansa Stark, they're slow learners but they will learn. I actually see a bit of improvement in us but I'm a nutcase.
Can some united fans in Manchester go up to these players and politely ask them why they aren't motivated or responding? And by politely I mean with a flamethrower
I would say Onana, Martinez, Shaw, Wan Bissaka (starting to), Eriksen (physically can't do it), Antony, Hojlund, Garnacho, Amrabaat (adapting to the league, so making too many mistakes).
I do harp on about it in other points, but I do really think the game against Arsenal, we were starting to really get it. We had really good pressing traps, the players countered well, but we lacked the control needed in parts of the game. Hojlund starting would have been much better, we would want Shaw and probably a better CB than Lindelof and we're not far away from properly competing and beating a team like Arsenal away from home.
The solution is more players with eredivisie experience.
What is a United mentality? Is there such a thing?
More than anything else some of our players seem to have concentration lapses which is leading to costly individual mistakes, there's also a lack of footballing IQ and game management at times
It's not like the players are a single entity - it's well possible that Mitten talked to one of the brighter ones of that bunch and was told "they are all f**** idiots, they don't get anything and I am sitting there and wonder how they all can be so f*** stupid"
Depends which players it is who aren’t picking up his messages though. Given that he’s signed half of the current team and I’d say it’s the half he’s signed who seem to be finding it the most difficult.
Pre red on Wednesday was definitely an improvement
Yep. I'm fact same for Galatasaray and Bayern for the first half. It's really gutting to be honest because I definitely see the seeds of good football being planted.
Agree.
I don't know if it says more about the players, it reminds me a comment from Klose a few years after he left Bayern. He basically explained that LVG would ask him to play and react in ways that he couldn't actually execute, he was able to understand what LVG saw on tapes but couldn't see or execute them during an actual game. If the manager has any feedback from the players then the issue is with the manager, footballers aren't robots and they don't view the game with the same high angle that the manager uses during video sessions.
True. Without knowing exactly what's being asked or said, it's probably unfair to make that judgement. I don't know why all of a sudden this is an issue now, when it wasn't last season. Maybe they were just humouring him, or they luckily were doing what he was asking at points without realising. I can see why that would grate on players, I have the same opinion with a manager going mental on the touchline.
I would happily go and ask that very question..but I could not trust myself not to punch one of them in the face.
I think you need to work on yourself if that's a serious consideration from you.
I'd be careful punching post-flamethrower.
Exactly! I'm surprised people are forgetting that Rangnick said out loud that this group is not good enough to win. We don't need cosmetic change we need heart surgery!
There's a reason why players come good at first and we think he is a breath of fresh air and then fall for the same bad habit as others.
We need to change the mentality of this team and that's by selling the core and building from scratch. These players cannot concentrate for more than 30 minutes and always go for the easy way out by just shooting.
I am fed up with everyone calling out the referees for our loss. These players don't work for each other as a team. They can't cover each other and attack together. These players just want the ball and get the glory for their Twitter account. Henry showed a section against City where Bruno should have made the run and made Stones go backward to make space for other players but instead, he went under for the ball which allowed City to keep the shape and win the ball which led to a chance for City.
People said Rangnick was a useless coach but someone tell me Austria is doing shit and can't play football. It's not the manager but the team. The players know that they won't be shitted on because the Glazers don't want to make the loss from the stupid fee they gave them and no player will pay them the wages.
If anyone thinks now SJR is here it will change then they're in for a surprise. The issue with this team is that they know they don't need to work hard and will just be cashing in their cheques every week.
In my opinion it is (or it should be) the same as playing for Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich in that it starts with an acknowledgement that you're very lucky to be playing at one of the greatest sporting institutions in the world and that you really have to be an elite player, physically and mentally, to succeed here. That's not being harsh that's just a standard I thought Sir Alex instilled. Even the squad players who can come in and do a job have to have a level of mental strength and competence which i'm not sure some of the current lot have (Dalot and Lindelof for instance, seem very nice guys, can sometimes play well but are they really dependable enough to be part of a title winning side? I'm not sure)
That's not to say players can't struggle because they're human beings and pressure affects everyone but sometimes I just get the impression that our players crumble too easily-see Anfield last season for just one example- or just give off a vibe of passing the buck and that's just not a mentality I associate with Manchester United. The culture and the recruitment at the club just seems to have been pretty poor for a long time.
Are these players the ones you believe are following his instructions or rather players you like/prefer?
And you didn’t include many other players, among others Maguire, McT, Evans, Lindelöf, Dalot. These players at times played regularly under ETH, at others not much. So what does that mean? Were they following instructions when they were playing but not when they were not playing?
Then ETH was full of praise for Varane last year, but now he is not following his instructions any longer? Varane is a pro who followed his managers’ instructions for RM and France, but not ETH’s?
Then what about Bruno? Let’s be clear again: It was not that we had no official captain and ETH felt the need to have one. Nope. He actually took the captaincy away from our expensive (English) signing - takes huge balls to do this - and gave it to Bruno. Why did he do this if Bruno wasn’t following his instructions?
For me it just feels every time with every manager when things don’t go well the same boring repetitive stuff comes out.
The club has given ETH free reign, they now probably will expect that he either delivers/makes his instructions clearer/changes them if they are wrong or not realistic, or else he has to leave.
I mean, the different perspective that can be true is that Pep didn't get sacked because he is good at making "complicated" instructions easy for his players. And "complicated" also does not always mean good.
It's clear how the team is playing that they just aren't listening to the coaches instructions.