Andreas Pereira

I'm sure that he does sessions with the first team occasionally, as will James Wilson.

I think he's definitely a potential first team player, but he's far from a cert. He needs to improve his decision making quite a bit, release the ball earlier (something he used to do well) and just generally improve his consistency/ influence of games. Time is still on his side.
 
I was all for loaning him out but I'd fast track him now, he will learn more in and around the first team in 3 months than he would a whole year at the reserve level and some of the first teamers need a kick up the arse.
 
I was all for loaning him out but I'd fast track him now, he will learn more in and around the first team in 3 months than he would a whole year at the reserve level and some of the first teamers need a kick up the arse.

This is my point. I know he isn't perfect now, but neither was Adnan. He is ready in my view. He's probably better than Cleverley already!
 
This is my point. I know he isn't perfect now, but neither was Adnan. He is ready in my view. He's probably better than Cleverley already!
So is that where you envisage him playing? In Cleverley's position?
 
I agree with pocco, he is no where ready to be part of the first team from the little I have seen of him. Needs to perform consistently at the U-21 level before a chance to get a look in at a level above that.
 
Fast tracking him now could do more damage than good. Give him games this season, maybe but full blown throwing him in could end in a disaster

Word. Especially out of position as some seem to suggest.
 
I disagree. Adnan has learned a lot I a few months. Andreas has the tools already, and can physically look after himself too. I think he's sensible with the ball in risky areas. I think the odd cameo would do wonders for him.

18 isn't that outrageous anymore for talented kids.
 
Adnan's learnt a lot but was already at a significantly higher level than Pereira is now. I know it's all the rage to stick the boot into Cleverley but to say Pereira's probably already better than him in CM when he's barely ever played there is just... muppetry.

Only way it really makes sense to give him first team chances now is if we're going all-in on chucking the kids in, and even then I'd have a fair few playing ahead of him at this point - certainly Lingard in general, and in CM definitely Rothwell and Pearson.
 
Adnan's learnt a lot but was already at a significantly higher level than Pereira is now. I know it's all the rage to stick the boot into Cleverley but to say Pereira's probably already better than him in CM when he's barely ever played there is just... muppetry.

Only way it really makes sense to give him first team chances now is if we're going all-in on chucking the kids in, and even then I'd have a fair few playing ahead of him at this point - certainly Lingard in general, and in CM definitely Rothwell and Pearson.
Precisely the point I was getting to.
 
Adnan's learnt a lot but was already at a significantly higher level than Pereira is now. I know it's all the rage to stick the boot into Cleverley but to say Pereira's probably already better than him in CM when he's barely ever played there is just... muppetry.

Only way it really makes sense to give him first team chances now is if we're going all-in on chucking the kids in, and even then I'd have a fair few playing ahead of him at this point - certainly Lingard in general, and in CM definitely Rothwell and Pearson.

Opinions. I personally don't agree with that. I just think it's very easy to say that now. And Pereira has more talent than Cleverley. Just as Pogba did when he was in our reserves and Cleverley was playing first-team football, although it would have seemed silly to say a reserve is better than a first-teamer because he's just a reserve. This age thing doesn't always work in a linear manner, I'm just calling it as I see it. My intention was not to bash Cleverley per se, he's just the midfielder who plays alongside Carrick in the role I think Andreas can, so I referenced him. Ability is ability, and he can do things many in the first-team can't. I say give him some minutes to see if he does it in the first-team. Or how many times does he need to put the ball in the top corner for the 21s before he is able to put the same ball in the top corner for the first-team?

And Pereira has played deep for the academy a few times if I'm not mistaken. I think watching him you will also see the positions he takes up are reasonably deep. And he can tackle. I'm not advocating him starting weekly, but if he were at a slightly weaker PL club, he'd probably be involved then we'd be talking of big money moves for him.
 
I disagree. Adnan has learned a lot I a few months. Andreas has the tools already, and can physically look after himself too. I think he's sensible with the ball in risky areas. I think the odd cameo would do wonders for him.

18 isn't that outrageous anymore for talented kids.
Its never been outrageous in all honesty. Just people have become more cautious about it because of some 'it could ruin him for good' theory. Plenty footballers have broken through before that age in the past and should continue to do so.
 
Opinions. I personally don't agree with that. I just think it's very easy to say that now.

Januzaj was U21/reserve player of the year last season and was the standout attacking player in the setup, despite generally playing out of position. Of course it's opinions but it's beyond me how anyone could possibly say Pereira now is at the level Januzaj was when he was given his chance. It's not even close, for me.

Or how many times does he need to put the ball in the top corner for the 21s before he is able to put the same ball in the top corner for the first-team?

Well, erm, more than once?

And Pereira has played deep for the academy a few times if I'm not mistaken.

I'm struggling to remember those. It's total guesswork really to try and project him as a CM, especially with the way Moyes seems to want his CMs to play - opinions on Cleverley's ability aside, he's been asked to play deeper and more defensive than would come naturally to him, which hardly encourages the thought Pereira could cut it there now. The assertion's pretty absurd imo.

The whole 'he can do things others in the first team can't' is all well and good but largely moot because you're not comparing like for like. We're not going to plug an 18 year-old with 8-10 hardly stellar U21 outings as a wide player or #10 into central midfield. And if you're comparing him with players in the positions he has actually played in, the 'he can do...' argument really doesn't stack up.

I really don't get the hype in all honesty. It's nothing to do with his age, I just can't see how he's made any sort of compelling case for promotion to the first team yet. He's clearly very talented but is a long way from putting it all together and finding any sort of consistency.
 
I don't think Januzaj being at a higher level this time last year than Pereira is even debatable. Januzaj was dominating matches and putting in much more consistent displays.

I've been impressed with Andreas lately though and think he has started to become more assertive and look to play a bigger role in the whole play of the game instead of before where I felt he'd sit back too much and pop up with the bit of brilliance now and then.

I wouldn't mind having him on the bench against one of the weaker sides, I'd actually prefer Rothwell, and we are comfortable like against Crystal Palace to put him in for the last 20 minutes or so. I don't know about playing him in CM for the first team though. I'd like to see him getting some regular time in the reserves deeper in midfield first. I think a few of the reserve players could make an impact. They are 18-19 and some of the best at that age in the country. We don't have much left to play for this season so I'd be glad to see some get in for a few minutes. Look at Southampton with the likes of JWP, Chambers and Gallagher. These players are getting regular PL time at the same age as our young players and I feel this is one of the main reasons youngsters are failing to make it through here and why overall it is harder for a youngster to come through at a top club. Players at the lower sides are getting regular time 2 years in advance. With the poor season a few bright prospects coming through might put a bit of a bright spin on the end of the season.
 
Januzaj was U21/reserve player of the year last season and was the standout attacking player in the setup, despite generally playing out of position. Of course it's opinions but it's beyond me how anyone could possibly say Pereira now is at the level Januzaj was when he was given his chance. It's not even close, for me.



Well, erm, more than once?



I'm struggling to remember those. It's total guesswork really to try and project him as a CM, especially with the way Moyes seems to want his CMs to play - opinions on Cleverley's ability aside, he's been asked to play deeper and more defensive than would come naturally to him, which hardly encourages the thought Pereira could cut it there now. The assertion's pretty absurd imo.

The whole 'he can do things others in the first team can't' is all well and good but largely moot because you're not comparing like for like. We're not going to plug an 18 year-old with 8-10 hardly stellar U21 outings as a wide player or #10 into central midfield. And if you're comparing him with players in the positions he has actually played in, the 'he can do...' argument really doesn't stack up.

I really don't get the hype in all honesty. It's nothing to do with his age, I just can't see how he's made any sort of compelling case for promotion to the first team yet. He's clearly very talented but is a long way from putting it all together and finding any sort of consistency.

Again, that's fair enough. Just as an example, I think the video posted above shows a very good performance, and not even his best game, but fair enough if it did not impress you.

As for Adnan, I personally don't think he was necessarily that amazing last season. Yes, he was our player of the year, but I also feel the players in the 21s were fairly average except Jesse. Will Keane was injured, Michael was on loan and I doubt the rest have a prayer of making it here. I also think Andreas has a good shout at being the best player in the 21s since he stepped up.

As for the whole positional thing, I don't think I'm the first that predicted he would end up as an 8. I think from his first game with us the consensus was that his skill-set would probably see him end up deeper. He's certainly no winger for a start.

I don't think he's that far away from putting his game together as you said either. His game is very mature I'd say. Also, no one is saying he should stop developing when he steps up. I just think he will improve quicker. Adnan got what, 1 or 2 goals last season? An indication that he hadn't put it all together either, but that doesn't mean he should be kept in the reserves until he starts scoring the 20 goals we eventually want him to get for the first-team.
 
I don't think Januzaj being at a higher level this time last year than Pereira is even debatable. Januzaj was dominating matches and putting in much more consistent displays.

I've been impressed with Andreas lately though and think he has started to become more assertive and look to play a bigger role in the whole play of the game instead of before where I felt he'd sit back too much and pop up with the bit of brilliance now and then.

I wouldn't mind having him on the bench against one of the weaker sides, I'd actually prefer Rothwell, and we are comfortable like against Crystal Palace to put him in for the last 20 minutes or so. I don't know about playing him in CM for the first team though. I'd like to see him getting some regular time in the reserves deeper in midfield first. I think a few of the reserve players could make an impact. They are 18-19 and some of the best at that age in the country. We don't have much left to play for this season so I'd be glad to see some get in for a few minutes. Look at Southampton with the likes of JWP, Chambers and Gallagher. These players are getting regular PL time at the same age as our young players and I feel this is one of the main reasons youngsters are failing to make it through here and why overall it is harder for a youngster to come through at a top club. Players at the lower sides are getting regular time 2 years in advance. With the poor season a few bright prospects coming through might put a bit of a bright spin on the end of the season.

I think that recently Andreas has also made himself the go-to guy in the 21s, and everything is going through him. I'm not a stat man, but I'd guess he is touches the ball the most in the team. He demands it everywhere.

I agree with all the rest of your post though. Varela is another who clearly belongs in the first-team for me.

I would say though, that I think this Pearson hope needs to stop, or at least slow down. For me, he isn't in the same class as Andreas. Rothwell is a different animal, and I agree that he could also be close to featuring. Very talented.
 
As for the whole positional thing, I don't think I'm the first that predicted he would end up as an 8. I think from his first game with us the consensus was that his skill-set would probably see him end up deeper. He's certainly no winger for a start.

I don't disagree there's a good chance he could end up as an 8, not at all, but it's incredibly rare to give an 18yo who hasn't even proven himself or particularly shone at U18 level a go in central midfield at a top PL club, let alone one who has barely ever played the position. If the club had imminent appearances in CM in mind for him I don't think there's any doubt they'd be giving him games in that role at lower levels first. Showing some competence for the defensive side of the game from a position in the 3 in a 4231 is entirely different to being up to that side of things as an orthodox CM.

Pearson's had a bit of a down year but easy to forget just how good he was last season (far more impressive at U18 level than Pereira was, or even Januzaj - on a consistent basis anyway) and just how stop-start his season has been this year. Think there have been encouraging signs again the last few games, as there have with Pereira, and I find it strange to be pushing Pereira quite so strongly whilst essentially saying to give up on Pearson.
 
I don't disagree there's a good chance he could end up as an 8, not at all, but it's incredibly rare to give an 18yo who hasn't even proven himself or particularly shone at U18 level a go in central midfield at a top PL club, let alone one who has barely ever played the position. If the club had imminent appearances in CM in mind for him I don't think there's any doubt they'd be giving him games in that role at lower levels first. Showing some competence for the defensive side of the game from a position in the 3 in a 4231 is entirely different to being up to that side of things as an orthodox CM.

Pearson's had a bit of a down year but easy to forget just how good he was last season (far more impressive at U18 level than Pereira was, or even Januzaj - on a consistent basis anyway) and just how stop-start his season has been this year. Think there have been encouraging signs again the last few games, as there have with Pereira, and I find it strange to be pushing Pereira quite so strongly whilst essentially saying to give up on Pearson.

I think 'give up on Pearson' is a bit strong. I know he was outstanding at academy level last season, I just mean that even then, I would have liked to see how he could step up before assessing his potential. I can't help having a bit of a Tunnicliffe feeling about him. That said, I've always thought to myself that at youth level, it is probably very difficult to tell a Keane from a Tunnicliffe or Spearing. Pearson's form in the 21s so far hasn't shown me that he is nailed on at all.

Pereira, on the other hand, was not necessarily turning in performances as consistently as Pearson in the Academy, often operating in flashes. However, he showed (for me) that he has more footballing ability than Pearson, and he needed to influence games more consistently over the space of 90mins, as opposed to being a highlights player. What I have seen from him this season is him taking greater responsibility in the team. I have been impressed to see how he is not only the focal point for the 18s, but also for the 21s. He goes looking for the ball everywhere, and is always on it, circulating it from deep or in advanced areas. His confidence is high, he is taking on any shooting opportunity that presents itself, and has already netted 3 very good goals from range this season.

I look at a performance like Kroos' against Arsenal and think than Andreas has the tools to be able to deliver such a performance in the future. The shooting, he has. The chipped through passes he has. The ability to turn away from his man, he has. He needs to acclimatise to the first team, but I think that is a process he is ready to start, alongside his duties in the 21s. I genuinely feel we have a star here, and in potentially such a key role that we need too. The Pogba situation has made me weary now, and the success of Adnan has re-enforced my belief that such natural talent should get a chance.

Rothwell is another. He is finding himself this season and has great natural ability. I also think he has more than Pearson, personally. I wish this were like Spain sometimes where some of these kids could get top flight loans. I look at some of the kids playing for lesser clubs, like James Ward Prowse for instance and think 'he's no better than Pereira'.

I also agree that it's fair that Andreas has hardly featured in central midfield for the 21s. I think much of that is circumstantial, with senior players like Petrucci or Cole until recently needing to play instead, and then a lack of forward players in the 21s meaning he has had to play further forward. After all, Adnan played much of last season up front or behind the striker, while the immediate plan was to integrate him into the first-team out wide. You don't have to play in the middle because that's where the plan is for you. Even Tom Cleverley rarely played in a middle two from recollection.

I suppose we'll just have to sit back and see what happens with these players, but I've personally reached the point where I've seen enough from Andreas to convince me.
 
and if he doesn't make it he could try his hand at modeling...
 
He looks like that Zayn guy off One Direction.
 
I haven't been particularly impressed with him other than a few great shots. He certainly has good footwork and the ability to find a nice pass, but barely ever seems to use those skills in the right times and places.
 


He is a brilliant Talent, but he will not be a regular at United if he wants to be a no.10 as we have Mata (can play in no.10 position after Rooney leaves) and then Januzaj will play the no.10 (it is his preferred position, not LW or RW like Mata).

If he develops himself as a CAM then he has a chance here and that is what we are trying to do it seems because he has the vision and has an aggression about his game.
 
He has had a slow start here, this season he is finding some consistency for the first time which is promising, he has the ability, he needs to keep those performances consistently high and display more of the abilities he possesses that can make him stand out from the crowd like Wilson has done.
 


He is a brilliant Talent, but he will not be a regular at United if he wants to be a no.10 as we have Mata (can play in no.10 position after Rooney leaves) and then Januzaj will play the no.10 (it is his preferred position, not LW or RW like Mata).

If he develops himself as a CAM then he has a chance here and that is what we are trying to do it seems because he has the vision and has an aggression about his game.

What's the difference between a no. 10 and a CAM in terms of position on the field?

Off topic: Rooney's leaving?
 
What's the difference between a no. 10 and a CAM in terms of position on the field?

Off topic: Rooney's leaving?

I assume he meant CAM as part of a midfield 3 and a 10 as someone directly behind the striker. That's a guess. I'd usually say they're the same thing.
 
I assume he meant CAM as part of a midfield 3 and a 10 as someone directly behind the striker. That's a guess. I'd usually say they're the same thing.
I'd use the terms interchangeably as well. Although I'd probably stick with "AM".
 
Worthy of cameo appearances I'd say, this boy has something about him. Sometimes with younger players, you just need to take a risk otherwise they're never going to be able to reach their potential.. see Pogba.
 
Yeah, Pogba was pretty poor pretty regularly in the reserves. It's a strange level as some players are clearly far too good for it but don't seem to dominate as they should.
 
I have no idea what to think about this kid. Usually when there's buzz you look at the player and you can see 'it'. In the last year everyone hass looked at Mats, Adnan, Wilson, Powell and you see them running the pitch or scoring from 30 yards. With this kid I just cannot see the impressive part of his game, for me looks like Rothwell is the more impressive attacking CM in that young team
 
Worthy of cameo appearances I'd say, this boy has something about him. Sometimes with younger players, you just need to take a risk otherwise they're never going to be able to reach their potential.. see Pogba.

He hasn't impressed me for the last couple of season.
Both Rothwell and Pearson has been better and more consistent than him last year + this season..
 
Yeah, Pogba was pretty poor pretty regularly in the reserves. It's a strange level as some players are clearly far too good for it but don't seem to dominate as they should.

I think the smaller fields historically used for youth and reserve football allow defenses a big advantage, you'll never see the type of space you would at OT. One reason why players sometimes look better stepping from the reserves.

But that small field can also make someone like Pogba look mediocre.