[DarkRed]

What position did he actually play in the academy?
I remember seeing him play left winger for Valencia in the traditional 4-4-2 and was good, after Mourinho decided to turn him into a DLP went to shit, so maybe he is just like many others can't play out of his natural position.
Simply needs to move to a team that plays 4-4-2, there are many in the EPL or the La Liga.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

What position did he actually play in the academy?
I remember seeing him play left winger for Valencia in the traditional 4-4-2 and was good, after Mourinho decided to turn him into a DLP went to shit, so maybe he is just like many others can't play out of his natural position.
Simply needs to move to a team that plays 4-4-2, there are many in the EPL or the La Liga.

He's not suited for AM because he lacks the awareness an AM should have. He lacks the composure of a DLP. I actually think his best role is on the left midfield. He's played there very few times under Ole but that's when he looked his best in my opinion

 

[limerickcitykid]

What position did he actually play in the academy?
I remember seeing him play left winger for Valencia in the traditional 4-4-2 and was good, after Mourinho decided to turn him into a DLP went to shit, so maybe he is just like many others can't play out of his natural position.
Simply needs to move to a team that plays 4-4-2, there are many in the EPL or the La Liga.

Mainly as a 10 or sometimes on the left of a 4231. Occasionally deeper in the 2 of a 4231.

 

[DarkRed]

Mainly as a 10 or sometimes on the left of a 4231. Occasionally deeper in the 2 of a 4231.

So, more or less same as now?

 

[Raven]

I think he has most of the physical and technical tools to make it at a good level, potentially as a squad player for us or more likely as at a mid table PL/Serie A team. The problem for me is that he is struggling to put it all together. It's hard to say why he's struggling with this but it likely has to do with a number of things such as confidence, maturity, mentality and probably other factors I would never think of.

I think the likelihood is that he will leave United at some point and be quite good in his mid to late 20s as he matures. I hope he manages to show enough to make it here but so far he's not been good enough.

 

[edcunited1878]

This is his first full proper season embedded in the United first team. Last year he had nothing much to write home about, 17 appearances mostly in the last few months of the season. Then early this year, he was really inconsistent the first half just like the team was and then he was rightly a pure squad and cup player once Bruno came on.

That's his role is squad player and cup player, don't see any problem with it. He's on fair wages I believe and he should continue to improve physically, mentally, and has fight/bite in him. He's never been scared to put challenges in and play on the edge, but that's a good thing for him to have.

His contract at United is until June 2023 with an option for a further year, so wouldn't mind him continue to improve and solidify his role in the first team.

 

[TwoSheds]

I think he has most of the physical and technical tools to make it at a good level, potentially as a squad player for us or more likely as at a mid table PL/Serie A team. The problem for me is that he is struggling to put it all together. It's hard to say why he's struggling with this but it likely has to do with a number of things such as confidence, maturity, mentality and probably other factors I would never think of.

I think the likelihood is that he will leave United at some point and be quite good in his mid to late 20s as he matures. I hope he manages to show enough to make it here but so far he's not been good enough.

A footballing brain is more important for a no.10 than any other position on the pitch. For me he's just slow to see things and not very aware of what's around him, nothing wrong with his technique particularly. I'm sure it will improve but not to a level that should be useful for us.

 

[Raven]

This is his first full proper season embedded in the United first team. Last year he had nothing much to write home about, 17 appearances mostly in the last few months of the season. Then early this year, he was really inconsistent the first half just like the team was and then he was rightly a pure squad and cup player once Bruno came on.

That's his role is squad player and cup player, don't see any problem with it. He's on fair wages I believe and he should continue to improve physically, mentally, and has fight/bite in him. He's never been scared to put challenges in and play on the edge, but that's a good thing for him to have.

His contract at United is until June 2023 with an option for a further year, so wouldn't mind him continue to improve and solidify his role in the first team.

I forgot to mention his attitude in my post but you're absolutely right, he reminds me of Rafael in that regard. I'd love to see him become a good squad player for us.

 

[Raven]

A footballing brain is more important for a no.10 than any other position on the pitch. For me he's just slow to see things and not very aware of what's around him, nothing wrong with his technique particularly. I'm sure it will improve but not to a level that should be useful for us.

People's 'footballing brains' develop more so than any other aspect of their game. Thats what people are talking about when they say experience. I personally think he's playing within himself due the mental reasons which will sort themselves out as he gets older but I'm open to being wrong. I hope I'm right though.

 

[TwoSheds]

People's 'footballing brains' develop more so than any other aspect of their game. Thats what people are talking about when they say experience. I personally think he's playing within himself due the mental reasons which will sort themselves out as he gets older but I'm open to being wrong. I hope I'm right though.

I agree, he'll improve. But not to a level where he should be playing for Man Utd. Nothing against the lad, he puts his heart into it but he's physically nothing special, his football brain is not near the level at the moment and his technique is good but hardly stands out at the top level.

 

[Raven]

I agree, he'll improve. But not to a level where he should be playing for Man Utd. Nothing against the lad, he puts his heart into it but he's physically nothing special, his football brain is not near the level at the moment and his technique is good but hardly stands out at the top level.

Fair enough, our opinions aren't too far off, only time will tell whether he's good enough or not.

 

[Ekeke]

I agree, he'll improve. But not to a level where he should be playing for Man Utd. Nothing against the lad, he puts his heart into it but he's physically nothing special, his football brain is not near the level at the moment and his technique is good but hardly stands out at the top level.

I think that while that might be true, the 27 year old version that will more than likely be more consistent and better at decision making (but not guaranteed) is a player we might want to buy if he was at another club rather than coming through the ranks here. And that several other players in our squad would have the same description as you wrote above, or worse because some dont "put their heart into it".

In fact the only players that I'd say are the opposite of your description and do have almost everything you mentioned are - Bruno and maybe Rashford at a push, because he has good movement but could still create a lot more for others so its hard to say completely that he has a football brain. So that description is obviously asking far too much.

Being far more realistic, I think that since Bruno signed Andreas' chance to be at the club longterm and play was to show that he can consistently play well in one of the two DM roles. So far this season he's found it hard in that role with maybe 1 good game there. So most likely he moves on. That said I think we've clearly had some blind spots over the years where a position, or a player wasnt good enough and yet for years and years we didnt buy an improvement, which gives young players the chance to take the spot or the player who isnt good enough to improve and eventually become good enough. So there is a chance that Andreas has several seasons as one of our AM options like Mata and Lingard have

 

[TwoSheds]

I think that while that might be true, the 27 year old version that will more than likely be more consistent and better at decision making (but not guaranteed) is a player we might want to buy if he was at another club rather than coming through the ranks here. And that several other players in our squad would have the same description as you wrote above, or worse because some dont "put their heart into it".

In fact the only players that I'd say are the opposite of your description and do have almost everything you mentioned are - Bruno and maybe Rashford at a push, because he has good movement but could still create a lot more for others so its hard to say completely that he has a football brain. So that description is obviously asking far too much.

Being far more realistic, I think that since Bruno signed Andreas' chance to be at the club longterm and play was to show that he can consistently play well in one of the two DM roles. So far this season he's found it hard in that role with maybe 1 good game there. So most likely he moves on. That said I think we've clearly had some blind spots over the years where a position, or a player wasnt good enough and yet for years and years we didnt buy an improvement, which gives young players the chance to take the spot or the player who isnt good enough to improve and eventually become good enough. So there is a chance that Andreas has several seasons as one of our AM options like Mata and Lingard have

There's certainly a chance but I do hope not. He really isn't up to it, even as a backup. I don't really rate Mata but I'd still rather play him at AM than Pereira. I actually think he's ok on the wing, but again he's nowhere near the level a club like ours wants, even as a squad player out there. AM is the position he needs to make his own and he just hasn't done it.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

I'm happy for him to leave if Gomes signs a new contract or we buy someone like Grealish or van De Beek. But not a lot of point selling him unless someone offers us money to help buy one of our targets. We'll get peanuts or nothing because he's not yet fulfilled his teenage promise. I imagine all the offers we get for him will be loan requests. There are at least 5 players ahead of him I'd rather see leave. Because the squad is now so young - I'd keep him until we have someone better. Especially as all the players I want out ahead of him are older.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

People's 'footballing brains' develop more so than any other aspect of their game. Thats what people are talking about when they say experience. I personally think he's playing within himself due the mental reasons which will sort themselves out as he gets older but I'm open to being wrong. I hope I'm right though.

There are a number of footballers younger than Pereira with more of a football brain than him. It develops but at the level he is now, don't expect it to be a big development

 

[Raven]

There are a number of footballers younger than Pereira with more of a football brain than him. It develops but at the level he is now, don't expect it to be a big development

Every player follows the exact same development curve as well I suppose? I'm not saying the lad will become world class, I think he'll bloom late into a pretty good player.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He plays too aggressively for somebody that's slow and weak. Often goes thundering into a tackle and will miss, then can't recover.

The amount of times we've seen people just ghost past him in midfield is embarrasing. I remember Villa (Grealish in particular) were cutting through the middle of the pitch every time until we made changes.

 

[Ekeke]

He plays too aggressively for somebody that's slow and weak. Often goes thundering into a tackle and will miss, then can't recover.

The amount of times we've seen people just ghost past him in midfield is embarrasing. I remember Villa (Grealish in particular) were cutting through the middle of the pitch every time until we made changes.

That isnt really a thing

 

[limerickcitykid]

That isnt really a thing

Funny how the lord and saviour Fred is actually terrible at tackling.

 

[Adam-Utd]

That isnt really a thing

Mainly because he's spent most of his time playing higher up, defenders don't tend to run passed AMCs.

Stats don't tell the whole picture, unless you can show me just the games he plaayed CM?

 

[Ekeke]

Mainly because he's spent most of his time playing higher up, defenders don't tend to run passed AMCs.

Stats don't tell the whole picture, unless you can show me just the games he plaayed CM?

Bruno has also played the same position for us and hes been the most dribbled past

Andreas has only played 3 games in the premier league in CM or DM this season

 

[WR10]

Bruno has also played the same position for us and hes been the most dribbled past

Andreas has only played 3 games in the premier league in CM or DM this season

His positioning is so bad he's rarely ever in a position to even be dribbled past. Match stats with eyes.

 

[Ekeke]

His positioning is so bad he's rarely ever in a position to even be dribbled past. Match stats with eyes.

Of course your eyes and memory are perfect so you can tell us the stat of how many times hes out of position per game so we can compare it to the other midfielders.

The floor is yours

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Why people are making argument in Andreas's discussion? Not worth your time try to make an argument whether he's good enough or no. He's the Brazilian Cleverley, end of discussion.

 

[Based Adnan]

Why people are making argument in Andreas's discussion? Not worth your time try to make an argument whether he's good enough or no. He's the Brazilian Cleverley, end of discussion.

Ah yes Andreas the risk taker is the Brazillian version of the safe sideway passing Cleverley. Good one.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Ah yes Andreas the risk taker is the Brazillian version of the safe sideway passing Cleverley. Good one.

What's the point of being risk taker if there is zero quality. Both have the same weakness & headless chicken when playing in midfield.

 

[TwoSheds]

What's the point of being risk taker if there is zero quality. Both have the same weakness & headless chicken when playing in midfield.

Nah. I don't rate Pereira but he's nothing like Cleverley. He's brave enough on the ball, he's just not that good at using it, and he's fecking terrible at winning it back. Cleverley just became a cowardly possession recycler which is why he failed here. When he was young and brave he put up far better numbers than Pereira.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Nah. I don't rate Pereira but he's nothing like Cleverley. He's brave enough on the ball, he's just not that good at using it, and he's fecking terrible at winning it back. Cleverley just became a cowardly possession recycler which is why he failed here. When he was young and brave he put up far better numbers than Pereira.

Pretty much anyone who is running like headless chicken is Pereira & Cleverley. Sideways or risky passers are not only depend on the player style but also depend on the manager's instruction. Sir Alex could instructed Cleverley not to play risky because we got Carrick who has the quality to do the job, while now, Pereira was used as no 10, it's the job no 10 to play risky.

The point is that both have the same weakness, that's where the comparison from.

 

[Ekeke]

Pretty much anyone who is running like headless chicken is Pereira & Cleverley. Sideways or risky passers are not only depend on the player style but also depend on the manager's instruction. Sir Alex could instructed Cleverley not to play risky because we got Carrick who has the quality to do the job, while now, Pereira was used as no 10, it's the job no 10 to play risky.

The point is that both have the same weakness, that's where the comparison from.

They're nothing alike

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

They're nothing alike

Same weakness doesn't make the player alike anyway.

I'm not going to argue about this shit anymore. Pereira is not good enough just like Cleverley, it's not something people should be moaning about whether he's Brazilian Cleverley or no.

 

[Ekeke]

Same weakness doesn't make the player alike anyway.

I'm not going to argue about this shit anymore. Pereira is not good enough just like Cleverley, it's not something people should be moaning about whether he's Brazilian Cleverley or no.

They have very different weaknesses.

Cleverley didnt try anything progressive, Andreas tries too much without it coming off often enough.

Cleverley was a CM, Andreas is an AM

 

[TwoSheds]

Pretty much anyone who is running like headless chicken is Pereira & Cleverley. Sideways or risky passers are not only depend on the player style but also depend on the manager's instruction. Sir Alex could instructed Cleverley not to play risky because we got Carrick who has the quality to do the job, while now, Pereira was used as no 10, it's the job no 10 to play risky.

The point is that both have the same weakness, that's where the comparison from.

Cleverley wasn't a headless chicken, he was just a nothing player. Never tried anything.

 

[LInkash]

Well, he'll always be our last ever scorer before the apocalypse.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

They have very different weaknesses.

Cleverley didnt try anything progressive, Andreas tries too much without it coming off often enough.

Cleverley was a CM, Andreas is an AM

Why would the manager played a player who doesn't even try anything progressive? Because he was instructed to be less risky and keep possession and pass the ball to Carrick instead.

Cleverley played as AM when he was on loan. Sir Alex made him into CM.

What matter is not the position or how they play, what matters is that both are not good enough, on the ball both players offer nothing, off the ball they run like headless chicken, physically nothing to offer and all they do offer is "work rate". I'm in shocked you can't even see it.

 

[TwoSheds]

Why would the manager played a player who doesn't even try anything progressive? Because he was instructed to be less risky and keep possession and pass the ball to Carrick instead.

Cleverley played as AM when he was on loan. Sir Alex made him into CM.

What matter is not the position or how they play, what matters is that both are not good enough, on the ball both players offer nothing, off the ball they run like headless chicken, physically nothing to offer and all they do offer is "work rate". I'm in shocked you can't even see it.

Warren Joyce made him into a CM, or Ole I can't remember. Either way though he was a fairly good one until he lost all his confidence. His attitude and fearlessness were the only things that stood out about his game and when he lost those he was fecked. Nothing wrong with his football brain when he was young though, stepped up at whatever level he was given opportunity.

 

[Ekeke]

Why would the manager played a player who doesn't even try anything progressive? Because he was instructed to be less risky and keep possession and pass the ball to Carrick instead.

Cleverley played as AM when he was on loan. Sir Alex made him into CM.

What matter is not the position or how they play, what matters is that both are not good enough, on the ball both players offer nothing, off the ball they run like headless chicken, physically nothing to offer and all they do offer is "work rate". I'm in shocked you can't even see it.

If that was the case he'd still be here. Or he'd have made it big time with another club after United. He hasnt.

Cleverley was never used as an AM in a 4-2-3-1 being behind the striker. Thats Andreas' best role as we've seen this season.

Anderson + Cleverley made United think Fellaini was worthy of being a big money signing because he would drop between the midfield and our defense and they had no idea how to try and compete against him bringing the ball down on his chest.

In 13/14 Cleverley actually had 1 season where he made 3.7 tackles and interceptions per game, which is more than Fred's 3.6 from this season. But he was playing next to Carrick in one of his best defensive seasons who was at 5.4 per game. And offensively they didnt create a lot.

Cleverley was just a neat sideways passer on the ball. Accurate enough with it but thats all he did. And that was just too little for us.

Andreas is someone with bigger ideas and more ability to pull it off too, but he's not very mature in his game nor does he look full of confidence so he tries plenty of stuff that would be good if it worked, sometimes its the right idea too, its just he doesn't execute it right and it isnt the simple high percentage thing.

Compare it with Bruno who obviously cost a lot of money, Bruno also tries a lot of things and plenty of the time it doesnt come off for him either.

That goes both for attempted passes and when he closes down and gets beaten. But he has a lot of character and he keeps at it, eventually in most of his games something that hes trying does come off and he gets a penalty or sets up a goal, or gambles on trying to win the ball and he wins it far up the pitch.

He also has a record he can lean on - if he plays for 60 mins trying stuff that isnt coming off very often, you know he's the player who scored a lot of goals for Sporting and who cost a lot of money so you're going to want to keep him on thinking eventually he'll get it right. With Andreas he doesn't have that record. He's still trying to prove himself now. He hasnt shown that eventually he'll get it right and make the difference so its harder to keep faith with him when it isnt working.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If that was the case he'd still be here. Or he'd have made it big time with another club after United. He hasnt.

Cleverley was never used as an AM in a 4-2-3-1 being behind the striker. Thats Andreas' best role as we've seen this season.

Anderson + Cleverley made United think Fellaini was worthy of being a big money signing because he would drop between the midfield and our defense and they had no idea how to try and compete against him bringing the ball down on his chest.

In 13/14 Cleverley actually had 1 season where he made 3.7 tackles and interceptions per game, which is more than Fred's 3.6 from this season. But he was playing next to Carrick in one of his best defensive seasons who was at 5.4 per game. And offensively they didnt create a lot.

Cleverley was just a neat sideways passer on the ball. Accurate enough with it but thats all he did. And that was just too little for us.

Andreas is someone with bigger ideas and more ability to pull it off too, but he's not very mature in his game nor does he look full of confidence so he tries plenty of stuff that would be good if it worked, sometimes its the right idea too, its just he doesn't execute it right and it isnt the simple high percentage thing.

Compare it with Bruno who obviously cost a lot of money, Bruno also tries a lot of things and plenty of the time it doesnt come off for him either.

That goes both for attempted passes and when he closes down and gets beaten. But he has a lot of character and he keeps at it, eventually in most of his games something that hes trying does come off and he gets a penalty or sets up a goal, or gambles on trying to win the ball and he wins it far up the pitch.

He also has a record he can lean on - if he plays for 60 mins trying stuff that isnt coming off very often, you know he's the player who scored a lot of goals for Sporting and who cost a lot of money so you're going to want to keep him on thinking eventually he'll get it right. With Andreas he doesn't have that record. He's still trying to prove himself now. He hasnt shown that eventually he'll get it right and make the difference so its harder to keep faith with him when it isnt working.

It's not rocket science, I don't know why you still don't get it. If by just "trying risky passes too much" will make the player good enough, we wouldn't need to sign Bruno in the first place, we could just keep playing Pereira. The main reason why we signed Bruno because Andreas doesn't offer the quality & doesn't make the right decision like Bruno does. In other word, it's not just about whether the player tries many risky passes that makes Bruno in the team, but it's about his quality as a no 10. 3 assists so far in the league this season, Bruno already have 3 assists within a month. And guess who's making 3 assists in 12/13 season? That's right it's Cleverley.

Just like Cleverley, Andreas offer nothing in end product, offer nothing physically unlike McTominay. Offer no quality on the ball. Run like headless chicken when defending. The reason why both managers still have/had them in the team because of their work rate. End of discussion.

 

[Ekeke]

It's not rocket science, I don't know why you still don't get it. If by just "trying risky passes too much" will make the player good enough, we wouldn't need to sign Bruno in the first place, we could just keep playing Pereira. The main reason why we signed Bruno because Andreas doesn't offer the quality & doesn't make the right decision like Bruno does. In other word, it's not just about whether the player tries many risky passes that makes Bruno in the team, but it's about his quality as a no 10. 3 assists so far in the league this season, Bruno already have 3 assists within a month. And guess who's making 3 assists in 12/13 season? That's right it's Cleverley.

Just like Cleverley, Andreas offer nothing in end product, offer nothing physically unlike McTominay. Offer no quality on the ball. Run like headless chicken when defending. The reason why both managers still have/had them in the team because of their work rate. End of discussion.

You're far too obtuse to continue this conversation. Nobody has said Andreas was good enough not to sign Bruno

Cleverley and Andreas very different, get over it

 

[DWelbz19]

There are a number of footballers younger than Pereira with more of a football brain than him. It develops but at the level he is now, don't expect it to be a big development

Not that I disagree, but we were probably saying this about Pereira 3-4 years ago when we had the likes of Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger clogging up spots in midfield. Funny how things work out.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You're far too obtuse to continue this conversation. Nobody has said Andreas was good enough not to sign Bruno

Cleverley and Andreas very different, get over it

You were the one who made a point if Cleverley is not coward with his passing, he would be still be here. Which clearly not the case as making lot of risky passes like Pereira is not what determine how the player will still be here being good enough. It's about quality and being effective in what they offer and that's Bruno was signed.

WTF? You have no right to tell me to get over it. I have my own opinion and I see them as players with full of weakness and no strength with relying on pure work rate. If you can't accept it then move on mate, not sure why are you getting so over passionate about it.