You're forgetting last season's pre-season games?Cause I don't.
All I remember him is playing next to Herrera in a midfield 2. Enlighten me
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All I remember him is playing next to Herrera in a midfield 2. Enlighten me
I don't understand your numbering system, sorry. Pogba played deep for large parts of the season last year. Check whoscored and it would also tell you that Pogba played 20 games as a defensive midfielder. That is something Pereira will have to do as well at some point. This is not to say that he doesn't have the license to drive forward. Between him and Herrera, we may not need a defensive midfielder. If we keep possession in the midfield, which we should given the technical ability of these two, we don't need a dedicated DM. In order for this system to work, Pereira needs to develop his game in deeper areas of the field.
Do you check whoscored instead of watching games? That might explain it. The idea Pogba was our most defensive midfielder in any game is so preposterous I can hardly believe anyone can defend that. Just indicate a single Premier League game where that happened so I can prove you wrong.
And regarding the player A.Pereira, you talk like you haven't seen our pre-season games, where he was always one of the best, playing #6 and impressing greatly.
He played some minutes alongside Herrera then Varela, then McNair and then Herrera again. Always as a #8. My point was most fans are expecting him to serve as an attacking player, at #10 or on the leftwing. To be clear, for Mourinho, in a midfield two he was always #8 and, now, in a midfield three always #6. Sure tells Mourinho is playing to move him upfront.
That wasn't me though. I simply said he's more of a CM than a DM. I don't expect him to get minutes form Mkhi/Mata. I expect him to be a sub to Pogba/Herrera.
They asked for it specifically for tour games and you put it up for the season just gone. So did you read his post? Are you sure?
He played most part of the game against Watford as the deepest midfielder. But he had the license to drive forward during certain phases of the game. But I am sure you'll again mention some trivial stuff about #6 or #8.
Well, Mkhitaryan played in midfield in the first game, as the most advanced midfielder of 3-5-2.
I'm so enthused, I now expect him to be our first option for #6, ahead of Carrick, in 4-3-3 (or 3-5-2) and to fight with Herrera in some of our easier homes games in a midfield two.
Well if that's what the poster was asking, then my entire reply is obviously pointless. I wouldn't even know where to find stats for pre-season games.
Oh, no, I'll admit you are right. I'm sorry. Had forgotten totally about that game. Although, one of the home games we won, so not so bad. Any other game, though? Genuinely interested. It seems Mourinho was trying something with Pogba there he's now trying with A.Pereira.
There were couple of home games( liverpool home, west brom home, hull home and couple of other games that i don't remember) where Pogba was the nearest midfielder to the defenders doing the carrick role for 35-40 minutes i.e -taking the ball from defenders and spraying out wide. So saying that it hhave not happened at all last season is incorrect.
Went to the trouble of checking all suspect games were Pogba might have played #6, even those you said (Liverpool h Carrick started in 4-3-3, Herrera was alongside him; West Bromwich h Pogba didn't even play; Hull h Carrick also started in 4-3-3, Herrera was deeper), and, no, that didn't happen. The Watford (h) game, that @RedCurry brilliantly mentioned, was just the only exception to the rule, really.
Pretty much.He also played the EFL cup final as the midfielder who sat back while Herrera and Mata were allowed to roam, if I remember correctly. I think it started out as a tactical practice for Pogba to be played deeper but Jose saw something special from him, that is play making from deep that only Pogba could do besides Carrick. I think that's where Pereira will be useful. If he can show the calmness of pre-season, he will start plenty of games as the midfielder who let's Pogba drive forward. That's not to say that he will be used as a dedicated defensive midfielder though.
It could be, I can't disprove that, because I don't have access to the average position for that game. But the fact that Carrick was introduced for Mata after 45' changing it into a 4-3-3 tells me it was not enough and Mourinho wasn't feeling confident on it. I agree with your other points, although I'm not so much interested in what one can call him, but if A.Pereira can be our most deep midfielder. Would love to see him partnering Pogba, maybe next game.
Here's the video of Pogba's EFL finals. You can clearly notice that the instructions are that Pogba has to always remain behind Herrera in the midfield. He drops a few yards away from centre backs quite often. We did this because we sorely lack playmaking ability. That's why I feel Pereira will get a lot of game time if he concentrates on doing exactly this type of role for us and we can push Pogba closer to Lukaku. I'd much rather have a midfield playmaker than a destroyer type.
In all honesty, he seems pretty even there with Herrera. One thing I don't understand, you seem to be implying a #8 who drops to collect the ball becomes the deepest midfielder.
That's my idea of a deepest midfielder. A player who drops next to the centre back and starts the attacks. Pogba due to his physical fitness can get up the pitch and still cover back so he has the license to go forward. I am guessing that's what you mean by #8.
I could accept that both Pogba and Herrera were playing deep for the finals. But that would still mean that Pogba was one of the two deep midfielders with Mata playing just behind the striker. So essentially we had two "#6's" and a #10.
That's my and the general idea of an #8, I suppose. Just to clarify, my idea of the deepest midfielder is the one who has more defensive responsibilities, usually translated into his deepest positioning. But if A.Pereira can be that guy while at the same time stating the attack, even better!
I would prefer to have all midfield players doing that, not just Pogba, so as to make our starting attack not so easy to target, unfortunately only Carrick who sits there and now A.Pereira who's more mobile seem able to. But Mourinho seems also interested in starting the attacks from the back, with Lindelöf giving us that option more clearly, and the wings, with those runs by Lingard.
And maybe I'm missing something, but Mata didn't play behind the striker any of the finals but as a drifting centrally right winger. In the first he actually ended up being subbed after 45' when we changed to 4-3-3; in the second he kept to his line, while Fellaini was closer to Rashford. You can't possibly compare, for instance, with the games he had as #10 or as secondary striker in 4-4-2 last season, or even worse with the way he played the other day around Lukaku.
I jizzed a bit when he put that cross in. The trajectory was
It's a bit of a mystery Mourinho never for once tried him wherever the fans think he should play.
There is no mystery in a manager giving a young player game time in various positions. Players need to learn how to play different roles despite the fact that fans have such rigid ideas on how and where players should play. There is a learning process going on all the time and especially with young players coming through.
The mystery to me is why so many fans think he shouldnt have some playing time where he has been playing in just 2 halves of football this season. With respect to playing in front of a defence as he has been he has all the core attributes needed to be able to do the job. He receives well on either foot, is comfortable receiving on his front foot or his back foot. He has a decent passing range and usually looks to play forward. He can receive well on the turn which is needed when receiving from his defenders and then looking to provide the transition forward. He can pass with either foot and can pass short or long with either foot. He is quick and runs good angles when shutting down space when the opposition have the ball. He is a heads up player and that helps him choose his passes and also helps him cover team mates when defending.
I think in the future he will end up playing further forward but right now on a preseason tour and having played just 2 halves of football I think where he is being asked to play is a compliment and indicates Mourinho has a level of trust in him.
I repeat, since Mourinho never played him besides #8 in a midfield two and #6 in a midfield three, maybe Mourinho should give this young player an United experience on different roles, like winger or #10. These two halves of football are already more than he had last pre-season.
You write much, but you're basically admitting Mourinho uses A.Pereira there, the player has the core attributes needed to play in front of a defense, but the conclusion you take, from a theory of putting young players all over the pitch, is that in the future he will end up playing further forward. F… logic!
Good greif, you have such rigid ideas. I see in other threads you seem to be stuck on formations and stuck on a numbering system with very rigid parameters. Periera has played in a number of different positions for Utd as well as Brazil and also Granada. Most of the time he has played further forward. Ive been to games he has played in and seen him play in different places. I think he will end up playing forward because some of his other attributes make him very effective when in attacking roles.
I wrote about his actual attributes which allow him to be able to play deeper. I wrote about how those attributes actually help him do that. I bet you wouldnt understand the difference in receiving on the front or back foot and you wouldnt understand the difference between defending on the inside or outside shoulder or why or when of doing any of those fundamentals. You do know about bleating on about #6 and #8 and you do know about bleating on about formations.
We all know that, but that counts for s… because he did not for Mourinho's United. That's the only point here. You're telling yourself and others the manager just wants to give him experience playing behind so he can move him upfront afterwards. I just don't agree that's the most likely. All the rest is just you showing of.
I was only talking about the EFL finals. Mata was supposed to start on the right and drift inside to be the free role attacking midfielder but he was stuck trying to chase back for most of the first half. In the second half, Carrick came on and Herrera was allowed to push forward, if you pause the video I posted earlier at around 3:14 you'd see Herrera was actually the furthest player forward. Pogba continued to play deeper, although had more freedom due to Carrick being a dedicated DM. At least that's how I remember it.
But either way I think we are both in agreement that we should be playing three technical midfielders who share defensive duties.
He has played just 2 halves of football this season and you are waffling on about it being a mystery why he is being played so deep. Whats the mystery? Its 2 halves of football in a preseason.
Mourinho needs options for the season ahead, he has said that we wont play the same way against all teams, what better place to prepare different options than during a preseason tour?
I didnt say he just wants to give him experience playing behind so he can move him upfront afterwards. He is giving him experience deeper and will most likely give him some time playing further forward during the season. Quite a big difference. Depending on injuries, how Mourinho wants to have us play against different teams we will see Pereira some games play deeper, some games play wider, some games play centrally forward. He wont spend the entire season playing deeper because he has been played there in 2 halves of the first 2 games of a preseason tour.
I'm tired of this discussion that reduces itself to the feeling of what's more important to anticipate the future, everything or what happened here specifically (A.Pereira played by Mourinho, this and last pre-season). And I wonder if you apply that last reasoning to all our players or just A.Pereira. It just seems you need an exception to justify your belief, but be it. My guess is last season's variations on the player's positioning and formation were more due to our difficulties imposing our game than truly a choice. Mourinho's pragmatic and flexible, but not that much.
Don't talk bollocks.
I think this kid will be a terrific midfielder for us if given a chance. Fantastic technique, big game mentality and despite what some here are suggesting he can certainly take care of himself on the pitch. Here's a video of him against Atletico Madrid last season, one of the best and most robust teams in European football. Completely unfazed.
What's clear is that on the back of last season's successful loan spell (played nearly every game, 5 goals and 3 assists - top in both categories - for a shit side, generally
Yeah, I mean all this shows is as you said - United are a much better team than Granada and have a lot more of the ball.
Not taking anything away from Pereira. It's natural that Carrick would have more passes than Pereira because firstly Carrick plays a lot deeper and he's an absolute machine. Not too many players would produce better numbers than him. Also Man Utd is a lot better team than Granada. But since you asked, I have pulled some stats which I think Pereira should be targeting to improve next season for us.
Yeah, I mean all this shows is as you said - United are a much better team than Granada and have a lot more of the ball.
Thank you for the comparisons with 'small players' when physicality has nothing to do with it. Neither have I made any reference to it over technical ability. It's simply for me and it's an opinion given no one has the monopoly of knowledge on here. Clearly he has lots of technical ability but I think he still looks like a lad that's being played up from the 21's, and I don't think he can play in that position without impose yourself physically on the game. Modric looks a better player than he ever did in the league. Scholes imposed himself on others when it mattered yet technically was as good as any.
I've been around professional boys football long enough to know it's the biggest hurdle in the transition from lads to mens football and I've lost count the number of technically gifted Utd youngsters that haven't been able to manage it....which is nothing to do with a players height. That aside, you are using two of the best players ever to kick a football to make your argument fit.
That's an excellent match from him and it was Modric-esque in terms of his playing style. From what little I've watched of him, his two-footedness, composure in crowded areas and how he isn't fazed by players pressing him is rather impressive. He's got the technical ability and creativity but also the grit and a fair bit of maturity (on the field) to go with it.
Interested to see what Jose does with him but it seems likes he's been trying to mould him into a deep lying playmaker of sorts. If memory serves me right, Mourinho played Pereira as the deepest midfielder in the last pre-season's friendlies too. Might be reading too much into that, given how it's nothing more than a run-out. However, perhaps he sees the tenacity and the industrious nature of Pereira and has him down as a deputy for Carrick, and boy have we been struggling to replace him. Now a deep lying playmaker instead of a more robust defensive midfielder might go against Mourinho's typical template, but iirc he did recognise the calming influence and importance of Carrick, and wasn't afraid to try Herrera as the deepest midfielder on a couple of occasions.
Whether Pereira has the tactical discipline and defensive nous for such a role is up for debate, and I see more of a Modric/Herrera sort of an all-round and dynamic creative midfielder as opposed to an Alonso or a Busquets for that matter. I know Pereira has played a variety of roles for Granada but did he ever play the deepest role, and if so, how did he fare? Hopefully, his versatility means he gets his fair share of chances and in quite a few roles. I recall us missing Pogba's creativity when he was out or at times overusing Herrera during the latter stages of the season, so there would be more than enough opportunites for him imo.
He looks really good when he plays in that deeper role.
Hoping we line him up with Herrera and Pogba as our starting 3 for at least one of the games against City, Barca and Madrid.
I think we'd be best playing like that through the season, especially vs teams that are hard to penetrate and park the bus.
I think we'd be best playing like that through the season, especially vs teams that are hard to penetrate and park the bus.
I'd say he has more to offer offensively compared to Herrera, so I'd prefer him playing as one of the #8s while Ander is the #6.
Is this the same logic that says an offensive fullback should play as a winger?
I like him. He looks like a versatile all round midfielder, comfortable in possession, good passer under pressure off either foot, and one of our best at crosses, corners and free licks. He has a well developed game for a 21 year old midfielder.
His contract is up to 2018 with an option to extend. So he has 2 years left on the contract.
I really hope Jose gives him a chance this season. Would be a shame if he leaves without being given a proper opportunity. Really like this kid.
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