Ander Herrera is the most complete midfielder in the league
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Tremendous player. I always refer to what happened against Arsenal in the cup when people don't heap praise on him...as soon as he went off we completely lost any kind of attacking threat.
Tremendous first season as things considered. 8 goals and 4 assists looks good too.
Tremendous first season as things considered. 8 goals and 4 assists looks good too.
Wilshere was a late second half sub and obviously had fresh legs on him. Plus Arsenal still got caught out many times when we broke because Wilshere was nowhere to be seen with his defensive duties. Don't know how you can call that him being better than Herrera.
Of course Wilshere had fresh legs, he never plays.
Reminds me of a young Fabregas.
Scored a 30 yard screamer vs yeovil or whoever and had that bit where he dribbled past 3-4 arsenal players today (and had similar moments in other games). Won't do it all the time but he's definitely got it in his locker
Fixed.
Absolute joy to watch.
That would be because I didn't. I said he had the run of midfield because that's what happened. He had acres of time and space to exploit. The same time and space that McCarthy et al used to such good effect when we played Everton. My point wasn't about Wilshere being better than Hererra it was about Cazorla being so poor that replacing him with someone who wasn't having a stinker immediately highlighted the how porous our central midfield was. Which happens every time Carrick doesn't play.
Defensive issues aside, we created feck all. Yet again. Hererra shouldn't shoulder all the blame for this but if we've got "the most complete midfielder in the league" in our team shouldn't Ospina have more to do than a couple of piss-easy saves over 90 minutes when United had 57% of the ball? We've clearly got issues up front but Carrick has an ability to pick out precise, first-time forward passes that quickly switch play from defence into attack and allow us to overload the opposition defence. Hererra (and Blind) doesn't seem to have that in his locker, which means we do all our passing in front of the opposition and are very easy to defend against. Again, I'd expect the "most complete midfielder in the league" to be a bit more hurtful with his passing.
No doubt my posts in this thread will be interpreted as me "hating on" some new signing again. I can't do anything about that. All I can say is that I have really high hopes for Hererra. He's improved massively over the course of this season and is on track to be a really top player for us. He's not there yet, though. Still very much a work in progress.
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Definitely our best signing, but would like to see how he does next season. Not convinced he is top tier just yet.
I am not saying that we don't have issues when Carrick is not playing but the same issues persisted last season when Carrick was playing. You cannot attribute that to Herrera just like you could not pin the blame for last year's midfield performances solely on Carrick. You need complimentary partners in midfield to have a dominant one. Carrick and Herrera compliment each other very well and that was the reason why we had some excellent performances with both playing together. Carrick, without Herrera, was exposed a lot as well.
On the same point, Cazorla himself was not forming all of Arsenal's midfield. He had Ramsey and Coquelin for company and yet we over ran them in the first half. Wilshere's switch came when our players started to tire and thus the amount of space he had to exploit. I don't think it would have been the case if he had started instead of Cazorla.
And people here wanted him sold.
And people here wanted him sold.
I'm an Ander fan but I think you need to be careful how much you take from these stats...
For starters, you need to ignore the win percentage: The most important stat is points per game and here there is only a 5.55% increase. TBH, I don't know how statistically significant that is but it isn't a large swing. Hardly a definitive endorsement of the difference of United with and without Herrera.
Also, whilst the goals for column shows a significant improvement when he is in the team the goals against suggests that we're more leaky defensively, conceding 37.5% more goals per game when he plays.
I think that if you are looking for stats that demonstrate who is key to our midfield you probably need to analyse Carrick and not Herrera!
Ander is very important in our midfield, not as important as Carrick, but he is still very important, we didn't really start playing good football until LVG put this lad back in the team.
I think Toure is the most complete midfielder but he's simply not fit enough to perform all the roles.
Herrera and Ramsey are the 2 that do so regularly.
Good to see the usual suspects missing the point being made altogether and running off on a different tangent.
Herrera and Ramsey are the 2 that do so regularly.
Good to see the usual suspects missing the point being made altogether and running off on a different tangent.
This for me. Love Ander as a player and he seems like a gem of a human being aswell. Just think some of the praise he is getting is premature.
His touch and control are excellent, his technique when tackling or shooting is top draw and he covers a lot of ground.
But it is still to early to be calling him 'most complete' or 'one of the best' imo. Still has to improve on his positioning, decision making and mid to long range passing. Would probably also benefit from bulking up a little.
I am not hating, just being realistic. Do I think he is one of the top 3 midfielders in the prem? No. But I think that he could be in a year or two.
I think a lot of the hyperbole is down to the fact we've been so starved of an actual proper central midfielder for so long. So it's no wonder we get giddy when we see someone with a bit of skill on the ball also who likes to make a tackle. This time next summer it will be 10 years since we signed Carrick and Hererra currently looks like the first new signing since then who comes even close to being as good as him. Which is amazing, really.
So far in this thread people seem to have only looked at clubs above us to make comparisons, for some reason. I've absolutely no doubt that the likes of Henderson, Schneiderlin, McCarthy or Mason would be getting insanely hyped on here if they'd been playing for United this season.
So far in this thread people seem to have only looked at clubs above us to make comparisons, for some reason. I've absolutely no doubt that the likes of Henderson, Schneiderlin, McCarthy or Mason would be getting insanely hyped on here if they'd been playing for United this season.
I think we could move him to the #10 position and bring in a new #8 like Pogba, Schneiderlinn, Gundogan etc
Pretty much everyone on here already hypes up Schneiderlin though, to be fair. I think most would absolutely love us to sign him. He seems the most obvious replacement for Carrick we can get, not that you can just directly replace Carrick mind, but certainly he'd help. I also think him and Herrera in midfield together would potentially be top class.
Yup. I think the same.
Schneiderlin + Herrera 
Absolutely he got it all. But I still think he is best when he is allowed to venture forward as opposed to when he has to play the Carrick role so I hope that we can get another quality defensive midfielder in the summer so we can keep getting the best for Ander.
He's like Rooney in the sense that he's good in all positions, but not the best. Imo, that's the most valuable type of player to have because he can aid the forwards and the defensive mid whereby most midfielders are stuck doing one thing. Definitely one of the best long-term signings we've made since De Gea.
I agree he's got quite a nice skillset, not sure if he's the "most complete", that part seems more to attract debate than anything else. But yeah, a really valuable player in the team. Similar to Blind, in Van Gaal's philosophy, they are really vital, their intelligence on and off the ball brings the best out of the whole team.
Having said that I do think he should not be given the creative burden in the team. Which is why having someone as creative as Mata to play next to helps him so much. He's perfect in keeping the ball in the middle of the park and driving it forward, but he always looks for Juan (or Valencia if Juan is marked) to play the final ball. I am not sure whether that is due to him not being confident enough to play the final ball or if that is just his style of play, to keep it short and pass and move. In any case, it works really well and his chemistry with Mata is fantastic. There's no doubt that this partnership has to be retained going forward.
Having said that I do think he should not be given the creative burden in the team. Which is why having someone as creative as Mata to play next to helps him so much. He's perfect in keeping the ball in the middle of the park and driving it forward, but he always looks for Juan (or Valencia if Juan is marked) to play the final ball. I am not sure whether that is due to him not being confident enough to play the final ball or if that is just his style of play, to keep it short and pass and move. In any case, it works really well and his chemistry with Mata is fantastic. There's no doubt that this partnership has to be retained going forward.
replace mata and fellaini with 2 top class CM players, herrera has the tools around him to truly see him shine
Yeah, agreed. I felt the same about the Daley Blind hype.
He was an upgrade on what we were used to, and showed a degree of intelligence that we weren't used to seeing. The opinion has changed on him quite a bit recently though. Whereas you were attacked (or told you weren't clever enough to see his subtle quality) for not thinking he had 'it' a couple of months into the season.
He's an absolute joy to watch - he makes it all look so easy (just like Scholes used to).
I'm surprised given his age and how long he's been at the club how commanding he is, he's constantly talking/signaling to the players around him.
We're watching a very very special player here, i look back at the Arsenal/City/Liverpool/Chelsea games in particular and he was absolutely magnificent in all of them.
I'm surprised given his age and how long he's been at the club how commanding he is, he's constantly talking/signaling to the players around him.
We're watching a very very special player here, i look back at the Arsenal/City/Liverpool/Chelsea games in particular and he was absolutely magnificent in all of them.
Fabregas was moved forward because Oscar has been injured or terribly out of form for ages. He played his best football for us from a deeper position.
His defensive game definitely isn't great but it seems pretty underrated here.
But Fabregas really isn't an all-round CM. He's pretty much always been an attacking midfielder, and Matic covered his defensive limitations. Fabregas is great for assists - there are few in the world who are better - but if you want a midfielder who can defend, assist, score, etc; then Herrera's your man. The ideal would be to have Herrera and Fabregas in the same team. Carrick/Matic - Herrera - Fabregas. That would be very nice.
Hard to say it he's the most complete. Probably not but who cares. He's been great for us.
Fabregas i think has done well defensively but its clear his best position is as a no.10. That's where he's at his best and world class.
Ramsay is another i rate highly. Hasn't quite been consistent this season though and his defensive positioning isn't the best. When he plays he often leaves his fullback isolated. He also has a tendency to dribble a tad too much on occasions and lose the ball unnecessarily. But he's got all the talent in the world imo.
Toure these days can either defend or attack but he can't do both in a game at the same level.
Cazorla i've been very impressed with this season playing a deep role. Didn't have a good game yesterday but he's been class overall this season. Very underrated player.
Oscar, i feel i need to mention, tremendous potential, wasted at no. 10. He should be playing as a no.8
Fabregas i think has done well defensively but its clear his best position is as a no.10. That's where he's at his best and world class.
Ramsay is another i rate highly. Hasn't quite been consistent this season though and his defensive positioning isn't the best. When he plays he often leaves his fullback isolated. He also has a tendency to dribble a tad too much on occasions and lose the ball unnecessarily. But he's got all the talent in the world imo.
Toure these days can either defend or attack but he can't do both in a game at the same level.
Cazorla i've been very impressed with this season playing a deep role. Didn't have a good game yesterday but he's been class overall this season. Very underrated player.
Oscar, i feel i need to mention, tremendous potential, wasted at no. 10. He should be playing as a no.8
Sounded like the usual Carrick song but they should have song that. He was that good
Great signing. More next year please..
He's only going to get better with us next season, really love having this guy in our team, I can believe for the first half of the season he was getting benched, what was that all about !
In a word, no. Good midfielder enjoying his first season in English football. No need for the ridiculous Rawk-esque statements. Didn't he spend a couple of months just sitting on the bench?
I am not entirely sure if he is with the likes of fabregas or even Delph has impressed quite a bit. But to judge him bass on sitting on the bench for a few months is wrong, it's Lvg who was tinkering with the lineups. If you give Lvg the chance to choose which lineup would he use at the start of the season, I believe he will use 4-3-3 with Herrera being a vital player.
Very all-rounded which is what we needed, with quick passing and incisiveness. Still room for improvement though.
True, but my point is if he was truly the most complete midfielder in the league, he'd be pretty much picking himself in the team.
What he lacks ATM is the long passing range which is such a necessity for a world class CM. As good as he is in everything else, it's the reason why we look 10x worse without Carrick in our side and him being the only creative outlet. Carrick can play those long passes that can unlock the defence and make the game much faster and ATM I just don't see that from him. That's why I'm not really sold on him being the most "complete" midfielder in the league, because both Fabregas and Cazorla might not be as good defensively, but they are more complete in the regard of controlling the game and that's what ultimately Herrera's primary job should be.
For all I know, he completes Mata.
I think he has been since he came back into the team. Next season he will be one of the first on the team sheet.
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