Ander Herrera is the most complete midfielder in the league

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But Fabregas really isn't an all-round CM. He's pretty much always been an attacking midfielder, and Matic covered his defensive limitations. Fabregas is great for assists - there are few in the world who are better - but if you want a midfielder who can defend, assist, score, etc; then Herrera's your man. The ideal would be to have Herrera and Fabregas in the same team. Carrick/Matic - Herrera - Fabregas. That would be very nice.
I can agree with most of that. I do think that when Cesc was fresher in the first half of the season he was indeed a "all around" midfielder but as the matches piled up and fatigue from playing non-stop kicked in he's dropped off a bit.

Hopefully we'll have a top class new player in there with him next season to avoid that situation again.
 
What he lacks ATM is the long passing range which is such a necessity for a world class CM. As good as he is in everything else, it's the reason why we look 10x worse without Carrick in our side and him being the only creative outlet. Carrick can play those long passes that can unlock the defence and make the game much faster and ATM I just don't see that from him. That's why I'm not really sold on him being the most "complete" midfielder in the league, because both Fabregas and Cazorla might not be as good defensively, but they are more complete in the regard of controlling the game and that's what ultimately Herrera's primary job should be.

I agree to some extent. The reason we don't see as many of those passes is because he plays further forward therefore the range of passing is limited and it generally has to be short, incisive passess. You don't really see him as often as Carrick/Scholes where they literally take the ball of the CB's feet and then have the whole game infront of them, from this position a longer defence splitting ball is more natural. Herrera mainly receives the ball in the opponent's half with his back to goal which make it more difficult to show his expansive passing game if it does exist.

However there has been times where balls have been on to the wing where it has needed a 30-40 yard pass and he's chosen the easier option or he's tried and it hasn't come off. I'm not sure whether he doesn't have the confidence/ability to try it or whether LVG has coached him out of it.
 
I don't think Schneiderlin is in the same class as Herrera. He does not have Herrera's vision or dribbling skills. Nor is his one touch football as good as Herrera. He is better than Herrera in breaking up play but that is all he has on him.

Ander is an attacking player with some defensive skills. Schneiderlin is a defensive player with some attacking skills.

They both cover a lot of aspects of midfield play, but they do so starting at opposite ends of the spectrum so few of them overlap.

Schneiderlin is a great tackler, interceptor, great reading of the game with anticipation, he's physical, but he's also a good passer and can get forward and score a few goals unlike other more defensive minded midfielders like Matic for example.

Ander covers most of the attacking skillset, and also has a few defensive skills but not half of those Schneiderlin does.
 
Ander is an attacking player with some defensive skills. Schneiderlin is a defensive player with some attacking skills.

They both cover a lot of aspects of midfield play, but they do so starting at opposite ends of the spectrum so few of them overlap.

Schneiderlin is a great tackler, interceptor, great reading of the game with anticipation, he's physical, but he's also a good passer and can get forward and score a few goals unlike other more defensive minded midfielders like Matic for example.

Ander covers most of the attacking skillset, and also has a few defensive skills but not half of those Schneiderlin does.
So they would actually be a good pairing. Each covers the others deficiencies.
 
He passing needs to improve immensely before he can be called a complete midfielder. He is an excellent player though; our best signing since Fergie's retirement. I would actually like us to see play 4231 next season with Herrera as a number 10. He has the talent and the game to get us 20 goals+assists from that position. Would like a better passer to play his position.
 
So they would actually be a good pairing. Each covers the others deficiencies.

They'd be a fantastic duo, but I expect we'll have 3 in midfield anyway due to LVG preferring 4-3-3 and this being his 2nd summer + Memphis. We surely wont be going into another season without LVG's favourite system and players hes confident will be able to do it... Especially with all the money we're throwing around. But yes, those 2 being a really good combination can only do wonders for the 3rd midfielder in the 3. We'd probably be fine if that player was Carrick/Blind... And I suspect if Schneiderlin was at the base of the midfield, we could probably get away with Di Maria in left centre midfield again as he'd have the legs and combative nature to fill in all the holes Di Maria leaves defensively

Just gonna add this video I just spotted. Not the best, but shows some of his pieces of play which go a little bit unnoticed because theres nothing fancy about him in terms of style and technique. But its effective enough to dribble past several of our or City's players, made good passing moves, etc.

 
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I think a lot of the hyperbole is down to the fact we've been so starved of an actual proper central midfielder for so long. So it's no wonder we get giddy when we see someone with a bit of skill on the ball also who likes to make a tackle. This time next summer it will be 10 years since we signed Carrick and Hererra currently looks like the first new signing since then who comes even close to being as good as him. Which is amazing, really.

So far in this thread people seem to have only looked at clubs above us to make comparisons, for some reason. I've absolutely no doubt that the likes of Henderson, Schneiderlin, McCarthy or Mason would be getting insanely hyped on here if they'd been playing for United this season.
Not to be nitpicky, but no way will Henderson or Mason get hyped up on here, especially with their limited skill set and approach. Mason, especially, would have been strongly attacked by our fans, for sure, given how limited he is in his game.

I do agree that there is some exaggeration going on with regards to Herrera. I'm guilty of this as well a few times. As you said, it most likely has to do with the fact that we haven't signed/played such intelligent and skilled midfielders in a while. However, given how Bayern's players improved in their second season under van Gaal compared to their first (particularly Schweini and Gomez), I'm sure Herrera will also improve and become more influential than he currently is.
I agree he's got quite a nice skillset, not sure if he's the "most complete", that part seems more to attract debate than anything else. But yeah, a really valuable player in the team. Similar to Blind, in Van Gaal's philosophy, they are really vital, their intelligence on and off the ball brings the best out of the whole team.

Having said that I do think he should not be given the creative burden in the team. Which is why having someone as creative as Mata to play next to helps him so much. He's perfect in keeping the ball in the middle of the park and driving it forward, but he always looks for Juan (or Valencia if Juan is marked) to play the final ball. I am not sure whether that is due to him not being confident enough to play the final ball or if that is just his style of play, to keep it short and pass and move. In any case, it works really well and his chemistry with Mata is fantastic. There's no doubt that this partnership has to be retained going forward.
This is most definitely his style of play for much of his career, but I wouldn't say that he lacks the confidence to play the final ball. Mata's first goal against Liverpool away is an excellent example of his great final ball, but with Fellaini being the most attacking midfielder out of the 3, Herrera is most likely playing a more reserved role, particularly as Mata isn't a proper winger and cuts inside quite often. This setup is quite similar to how he set up Bayern in their first season where Robben and Ribery created all of the chances (Young and Mata), Muller was more of a goalscoring player behind the striker (Fellaini), and Schweini was more reserved than his time as a left wide attacking midfielder (Herrera).

Even with Bilbao, when he wasn't an attacking midfielder, he was not that risky and didn't get as many assists as, say, Fabregas. However, like Cazorla, he dictated Bilbao's midfield as a #8 under Bielsa and Valverde, particularly for Bielsa, and also as a #10 as a Zaragoza player and under Valverde. He can definitely play nice final passes, but he needs to be given the freedom to do so. However, even in a more reserved role, he's very good at moving the ball around, maintaining possession, and creating gaps. He just needs to improve his passing range and defensive positioning to be complete.

I agree to some extent. The reason we don't see as many of those passes is because he plays further forward therefore the range of passing is limited and it generally has to be short, incisive passess. You don't really see him as often as Carrick/Scholes where they literally take the ball of the CB's feet and then have the whole game infront of them, from this position a longer defence splitting ball is more natural. Herrera mainly receives the ball in the opponent's half with his back to goal which make it more difficult to show his expansive passing game if it does exist.

However there has been times where balls have been on to the wing where it has needed a 30-40 yard pass and he's chosen the easier option or he's tried and it hasn't come off. I'm not sure whether he doesn't have the confidence/ability to try it or whether LVG has coached him out of it.
The longer passing isn't a part of his game as well. Under Bilbao, especially under Bielsa, he would always have short-passing options around, and the team's attacking, dynamic approach meant that long passing wasn't really necessary from Herrera, particularly when he had Martinez/Benat/San Jose/Iturraspe doing it. However, under van Gaal, I do believe that he'll add the long passing to his game, and he's already attempted some long passes in the last few matches.
 
I'd say Santi Cazorla is far more 'complete' than Ander at this moment, though Ander has the next 5 years to develop his long passing. I like Herrera, I just feel like he needs to really hone one aspect of his game (whether it's his, shooting, dribbling, passing range, final ball etc.) to really kick himself up to the next level - at the moment he's good or very good at a lot of things without being exceptional.
 
I'd say Santi Cazorla is far more 'complete' than Ander at this moment, though Ander has the next 5 years to develop his long passing. I like Herrera, I just feel like he needs to really hone one aspect of his game (whether it's his, shooting, dribbling, passing range, final ball etc.) to really kick himself up to the next level - at the moment he's good or very good at a lot of things without being exceptional.

Cazorla's definitely a better playmaker than Ander, but he's definitely not as complete. Ander's defensive awareness and contribution is much better than Cazorla's, but even then, Cazorla is still an amazing midfielder because of his vision, passing range, and world class technique. As an attacking midfielder, he was a big goalscoring threat as well, though playing him deeper allows him to take a greater control of the match.
 
Tough to quantify who is the most complete.

But it is refreshing watching our midfield thrive when teams press us. Haven't seen that since 2008.

Herrera's assist in The Liverpool game was stunning.
 
Ander is an attacking player with some defensive skills. Schneiderlin is a defensive player with some attacking skills.

They both cover a lot of aspects of midfield play, but they do so starting at opposite ends of the spectrum so few of them overlap.

Schneiderlin is a great tackler, interceptor, great reading of the game with anticipation, he's physical, but he's also a good passer and can get forward and score a few goals unlike other more defensive minded midfielders like Matic for example.

Ander covers most of the attacking skillset, and also has a few defensive skills but not half of those Schneiderlin does.

I disagree with the last line. Ander's defensive abilities are seriously undermined by that statement. Also, Schneiderlin is not even close to Herrera's class in ball control, dribbling and ability to play a defense splitting ball.
 
I disagree with the last line. Ander's defensive abilities are seriously undermined by that statement. Also, Schneiderlin is not even close to Herrera's class in ball control, dribbling and ability to play a defense splitting ball.

Neither is Ander even close to Schneiderlin's tackling, positioning, physicality, etc. As I said, they dont have a lot of overlapping strengths but there are just as many defensive skills that Schneiderlin is miles better than Ander in, just as many as Ander's attacking skills that hes miles better than Schneiderlin in. People tend to only look at attacking/on the ball skills though
 
Neither is Ander even close to Schneiderlin's tackling, positioning, physicality, etc. As I said, they dont have a lot of overlapping strengths but there are just as many defensive skills that Schneiderlin is miles better than Ander in, just as many as Ander's attacking skills that hes miles better than Schneiderlin in. People tend to only look at attacking/on the ball skills though

He would be the perfect partner for Ander in midfield.
 
:mad::nono: :nervous:hands off. Go for Koke or Oliver!
Oliver Torres? Wouldn't mind him next year. I obviously watched Atletico vs Barca on Sunday, but it was hard to judge Koke as Atletico didn't have much of the ball.
 
There are already rumours they have an eye on him...
Yeah they were supposedly keen on him to replace Xavi, but yeah, he's been on their radar for a while. Hopefully Rafinha steps up and there's no need ;)
Oliver Torres? Wouldn't mind him next year. I obviously watched Atletico vs Barca on Sunday, but it was hard to judge Koke as Atletico didn't have much of the ball.
Not sure if Koke will be a good fit for Barca, great player he is. He's probably a little too direct/physical for Barca's style but from the little I've seen of Torres, he seems a good fit to your style. Him and Verratti would be superb. I'd cream myself if we signed Verratti. I'd prefer him over Pogba to boot.
 
Honestly, the standard of midfielders in the prem atm is pretty low. Not all that surprising that he's the most complete midfielder around.
 
Honestly, the standard of midfielders in the prem atm is pretty low. Not all that surprising that he's the most complete midfielder around.
Yeah, have to agree. Was thinking that myself.
 
Yes he is...and he's got enough time to become a world class midfielder...
 
I think he's been quite overrated as a box to box midfielder if I'm completely honest, his skillset clearly resembles that of a 10.

He's a fantastic little player within a 10-15 yard radius, is how I'd describe. Quick, nimble, great first touch, great passing, great movement within that particular area. However as has been mentioned, he doesn't have the range of passing that elite midfielders do. He doesn't have the defensive awareness that a player in his role needs and whilst he does have great energy, he doesn't have the stamina to keep it up for the entire game in his current position.

As a 10, he'd mostly be operating higher up the field in tighter areas, which is much more suited to his ability, long range passing isn't necessarily a requirement in that area. He can use his energy more efficiently because he's not having to cover as much distance to get back into position defensively, and his main defensive responsibility is to press what's in front of him without having to worry too much about runners in behind him.

In terms of midfielders that play his role; Cesc, Toure and Ramsey are better than him for certain. No point comparing him to Matic, Carrick or Schneiderlin because their role is completely different. Seems Matic is quite overrated judging by this thread as well, Carrick is a better player than him. However as I say, he's clearly a 10 for me and I'm keen to see the type of performances he can put in once we sign a more natural midfielder for his current role.
 
I think there's nothing he's poor in but also nothing he's exceptional in. Just does it all and has a fantastic attitude. Should be in our midfield for years to come, expecting him to continue growing rapidly.
 
I think he's been quite overrated as a box to box midfielder if I'm completely honest, his skillset clearly resembles that of a 10.

He's a fantastic little player within a 10-15 yard radius, is how I'd describe. Quick, nimble, great first touch, great passing, great movement within that particular area. However as has been mentioned, he doesn't have the range of passing that elite midfielders do. He doesn't have the defensive awareness that a player in his role needs and whilst he does have great energy, he doesn't have the stamina to keep it up for the entire game in his current position.

As a 10, he'd mostly be operating higher up the field in tighter areas, which is much more suited to his ability, long range passing isn't necessarily a requirement in that area. He can use his energy more efficiently because he's not having to cover as much distance to get back into position defensively, and his main defensive responsibility is to press what's in front of him without having to worry too much about runners in behind him.

In terms of midfielders that play his role; Cesc, Toure and Ramsey are better than him for certain. No point comparing him to Matic, Carrick or Schneiderlin because their role is completely different. Seems Matic is quite overrated judging by this thread as well, Carrick is a better player than him. However as I say, he's clearly a 10 for me and I'm keen to see the type of performances he can put in once we sign a more natural midfielder for his current role.

I feel the same about Herrera, and want to him played as a 10 with a better passer behind him in central midfield. Or, if we continue with this 433, then I would like him to take up Fellaini's position and be more in and around the box.

The only thing I would disagree with the post is that Ramsey or Toure are better than him. Toure was more of an attacking threat but he was shown up against any opposition that decided to press City's midfield. Herrera is much better than him in that sense.
 
I feel the same about Herrera, and want to him played as a 10 with a better passer behind him in central midfield. Or, if we continue with this 433, then I would like him to take up Fellaini's position and be more in and around the box.

The only thing I would disagree with the post is that Ramsey or Toure are better than him. Toure was more of an attacking threat but he was shown up against any opposition that decided to press City's midfield. Herrera is much better than him in that sense.

We'd need a better CDM first to play him in a more attacking role though.
 
Than Blind. Herrera could be a lot more attacking but it was like he was helping out Blind in some games.
Well if he's a number 10, he will be someone who can defend much better than a typical number 10 so it can reduce the workload on the defensive midfield guys
 
Maybe he is complete, but it doesn't really matter much, there are better midfielders in the league. His major problem is that his passing is very inconsistent, if he can fix that he will be a top midfielder.
 
Maybe he is complete, but it doesn't really matter much, there are better midfielders in the league. His major problem is that his passing is very inconsistent, if he can fix that he will be a top midfielder.

Its actually not inconsistant at all.

During the start of the season he would give the ball away now and again with an odd pass, as the season has gone on he has had incredible consistancy (but not for a Spanish CM, its expected of them) with his passing. There are very few CMs who better his passing output of 73 passes per game in CM/DM and 89% accuracy. Theres still the odd weird pass, but by the numbers he's consistant with his passing and getting on the ball. Its behind the likes of Schweinsteiger and and Alonso, but other than that its about the same as the rest.
 
Hasn't made the Spain squad for the June internationals. Disappointed for him.

Still no shame given the talent they have.

 
Some decent Sevilla players who havent made a big name for themselves in there. Vitolo is okay but its interesting to see how they use Aleix Vidal because he's a right midfielder who was moved to right back and has contributed well going forward. Its mainly the wide players that make it look "weak" but Spain dont really use wideplayers, or use central players wide so it shouldnt be a big deal for them
 
They just recently started calling de Gea even though he is their best keeper in probably last two or three years, it's obvious they don't care much about United/Premiership players.
 
Sad for Ander, but depends if he was expecting to be called up. A nice summer break will be good for him and us. Come back refreshed.

Also it was mentioned that he was due in court on June 10th (if that hasn't been changed yet again). Might not have been good having that distraction round him.
 
He'll get his call up once we become more successful. He better hope that Van Gaal sorts out the team in the summer without displacing him.
 
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