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Ander Herrera Spain flag

2016-17 Performances


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6.4 Season Average Rating
Appearances
50
Goals
3
Assists
11
Yellow cards
15
Red cards
2
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You guys do know Kante plays alongside Matic who's also one of the best ball winners in Europe? Unlike last season, he doesn't have to do anywhere near as much defensive work. Watch games instead of stat sheets lads.

Shouldnt that mean he should he should be offering more going the other way.

I watch games and see Chelsea lack creativity from their CMs especially in games they dominate. Hazard has to drop deep to become a playmaker.

Kante is fantastic I think even Conte is saying that he needs to offer more on the ball though
 
Herrera was all over the pitch yesterday doing the right things and at the right time, brilliant was close to a understatement than anything :drool:. I'm loving his double pivot with Pogba too, they ran the midfield to perfection. They also picked their moments well to influence things further forward. Them two are special all-round midfielders, I hope we will stop pigeonholing them into specific midfield areas as I have been guilty of it as well earlier in the season. They are both are both smart enough to adapt positionally to what the manager needs from what I've seen. The additional midfielder we need I feel is a Wanyama-like player and professional who will be content to come in as a competent pure DM during top 6 PL clashes and top CL matches to have PogbEra :wenger: wreck havoc a little further ahead in their box to box roles, our midfield would be indomitable. I don't care if this is considered OTT but there is a wild under appreciation of Herrera and to some extent Pogba that can sometimes blur how good they've been as if we haven't seen them dominate majority of midfields this season. Fair criticism is good when they unperformed, and they have in a few games, but some of the things I've read makes me wonder if the people commenting even watch games.
 
That seems to be a risk were happy to take. Pogba sits and we want to win the ball high in order to start an attack quickly. I dnt mind it, risk vs reward
I am not saying he shouldn't do it. Just saying he needs to learn when not to do it. There are times when Pogba is ahead of him and we lose the ball and he charges to press and a ball past him exposes the CB. Waiting for the attacker to come to him is a better option sometimes
 
The thing is, Herrera does not fit into any sensationalist narrative so he is conveniently ignored. Kante fits right into such a narrative, so pundits and ex-players alike are going to cream themselves every time the makes an interception. If Herrera was a new arrival here, i'm sure he would have gotten a lot more praise in the media because he would had been a "vital part in our resurgence" or something like that

People want their new toys. Can't help but feel that that's on some of their minds when they say we need to do better than Herrera.
 
I am not saying he shouldn't do it. Just saying he needs to learn when not to do it. There are times when Pogba is ahead of him and we lose the ball and he charges to press and a ball past him exposes the CB. Waiting for the attacker to come to him is a better option sometimes
oftentimes its very hard to react and hesitate, and he wins it more often than not and I cant remember we conceded goal after any of his charges, we have very good aggressive center backs basically all of them capable of sweeping and read the situations higher up the pitch or the slow the opposition attack down so its definitelz worth the little risk. He also plays this role 2/3 of the season so I am sure he will only get better as hes very intelligent player. It also very important to start pressing, our game was very unwatchable at times past 5/6 years with players sitting back, waiting for a mistake, this is a better football with more chances, with a little more risk but with many more chances on our side, sitting back and building up from there is so oldfashioned. so good to have a player with this kind of skill who will be part of the new Mourinho philosophy
 
More, not a Keane or Scholes standard [of] player but he could be our Nicky Butt, rather than a comparison in actual styles.
I get what you're saying, I think? Defo not as hard or driven as Keano or as skilled as Scholes (a much better tackler though) but head & shoulders better than Butty in terms of skill, talent & overall ability. Nicky worked hard for us, I'll grant you that, but nowhere near as creative as Ander. If the two had been available to SAF I think Nicky would be riding the pine is all.
 
I voted him MoM yesterday.

I wish he'd improve his long range shooting or just give it miss.
 
I get what you're saying, I think? Defo not as hard or driven as Keano or as skilled as Scholes (a much better tackler though) but head & shoulders better than Butty in terms of skill, talent & overall ability. Nicky worked hard for us, I'll grant you that, but nowhere near as creative as Ander. If the two had been available to SAF I think Nicky would be riding the pine is all.

Sloooow your roll there.

Butt could play beside either one of Keane or Scholes, Ander might get a game next to Keano.
 
Seems to be evolving nicely under Mourinho as he is playing at the best he has been at the club.

Specifically like his work rate and tackling which have really improved
 
Shouldnt that mean he should he should be offering more going the other way.

I watch games and see Chelsea lack creativity from their CMs especially in games they dominate. Hazard has to drop deep to become a playmaker.

Kante is fantastic I think even Conte is saying that he needs to offer more on the ball though
Chelsea's creativity seems to come a lot more from their wing backs because they get so much freedom having two great ball winners in the centre. The systems working so well at Chelsk
 
The thing is, Herrera does not fit into any sensationalist narrative so he is conveniently ignored. Kante fits right into such a narrative, so pundits and ex-players alike are going to cream themselves every time the makes an interception. If Herrera was a new arrival here, i'm sure he would have gotten a lot more praise in the media because he would had been a "vital part in our resurgence" or something like that

The interesting thing is that Ander wins out over Kanté in the defensive stats as well as the offensive stats.

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised with just how good those stats are, even if I do think he's been consistently very good for us.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...erial_duels_won_%/total_duels_%/key_passes#90

Pretty sure the stats state that Henderson is better than Herrera. So does that make Henderson a better player than Herrera?

The problem with stats is it doesn't give you the whole picture, Herrera is often next to Pogba thus doing a lot of the defensive work (Carrick hasn't got the legs) whereas Kante is next to a very defensively competent Matic, and flanked by two wing backs.

Edit:
You guys do know Kante plays alongside Matic who's also one of the best ball winners in Europe? Unlike last season, he doesn't have to do anywhere near as much defensive work. Watch games instead of stat sheets lads.

Didn't see this post initially, but completely agree.
People put way too much stock into stats.
 
Pretty sure the stats state that Henderson is better than Herrera. So does that make Henderson a better player than Herrera?

The problem with stats is it doesn't give you the whole picture, Herrera is often next to Pogba thus doing a lot of the defensive work (Carrick hasn't got the legs) whereas Kante is next to a very defensively competent Matic, and flanked by two wing backs.

Edit:

Didn't see this post initially, but completely agree.
People put way too much stock into stats.

The stats were put up just as a pointer. Since I saw many people saying Herrera wasnt good enough/needs to be upgraded because he wasnt good enough on the ball. Yet at the same time the Kante thread is full of people saying they would love him here.

Many have been praising Herrera all season. You dont need stats to see hes been one of our most important players this season

The point was to show that Herrera was offering us just as much defensively with the added extra ability on the ball
 
Pretty sure the stats state that Henderson is better than Herrera. So does that make Henderson a better player than Herrera?

The problem with stats is it doesn't give you the whole picture, Herrera is often next to Pogba thus doing a lot of the defensive work (Carrick hasn't got the legs) whereas Kante is next to a very defensively competent Matic, and flanked by two wing backs.

Edit:

Didn't see this post initially, but completely agree.
People put way too much stock into stats.
Except he doesn't have better stats, you literally have to just add Hendersons name on average per game to see how Herrera still comes out well on top.

The defensive contribution from Pogba and Matic are very similar, Pogba even wins more tackles per game in comparison to Matic and Carrick significantly more interceptions. Crazy considering Matic is 'one of the best ball winners in Europe'.
 
Am I the only one who loves his dribbles and take ons in the middle? He has this beautiful dribble that should be found out by now, but it works every time. I think he bounces if off his right foot and moves left. He is pretty rapid on those first five yard, but his top speed is rather poor, so he manages to get away from them as well. When he does that he creates so much space for himself.

Great player to watch, so much energy and willingness.
I think you mean that first touch where he gain a yard or put opponents off. It's the same as Kross.
 
I enjoy watching him play and enjoy his passion and energy. If there was a 6'1" version of him out there with the same zeal and energy that could play as an anchor then happy days, sign that guy up. (Iturraspe? :wenger:)
 
Pretty sure the stats state that Henderson is better than Herrera. So does that make Henderson a better player than Herrera?

The problem with stats is it doesn't give you the whole picture, Herrera is often next to Pogba thus doing a lot of the defensive work (Carrick hasn't got the legs) whereas Kante is next to a very defensively competent Matic, and flanked by two wing backs.

Edit:

Didn't see this post initially, but completely agree.
People put way too much stock into stats.

Then you expect him to do lot better on ball with reduced defensive duties ?
 
Seen it all now, Herrera better than Butt.

Why,oh why, must we continue to disrespect the achievements/quality of that team. Ironically the player i think gets "too much" love is keane from that side, anyhow i digress.

Nicky Butt, 7/10 every week - 30 starts per year for a truly top side. Herrera, playing every week (when the option is fellaini) for the 6th best side in the country(YES i think we're better than that but still)
 
Thought that was his best game of the season on Saturday.

I am not as high on Herrera as some but he genuinely and loves playing for the club. Mourinho demands 'everything' from his players and Ander is able to give him that.
 
Seen it all now, Herrera better than Butt.

Why,oh why, must we continue to disrespect the achievements/quality of that team. Ironically the player i think gets "too much" love is keane from that side, anyhow i digress.

Nicky Butt, 7/10 every week - 30 starts per year for a truly top side. Herrera, playing every week (when the option is fellaini) for the 6th best side in the country(YES i think we're better than that but still)
It is a lot easier to play in a successful side with a longterm manager and a style of play. Butt found that out when he left United as did a lot of players. Herrera has had two different managers and a big overhaul of playing partners. One manager undermined his confidence but thankfully Jose is showing faith and we are getting the benefits.
 
It is a lot easier to play in a successful side with a longterm manager and a style of play. Butt found that out when he left United as did a lot of players. Herrera has had two different managers and a big overhaul of playing partners. One manager undermined his confidence but thankfully Jose is showing faith and we are getting the benefits.


Now that is a good response, a point i 'cede.
 
Thought that was his best game of the season on Saturday.

I am not as high on Herrera as some but he genuinely and loves playing for the club. Mourinho demands 'everything' from his players and Ander is able to give him that.

I am a massive fan of Ander's but I half feel Herrera is getting too much love for Saturday's performance.

The Watford game was not Herrera's best match for Man Utd. It wasn't even his best game this season. For example, Herrera was much better against Liverpool at Anfield:



I also happen to think, on the whole, Herrera played better when we threw away three points in the last minute against Arsenal and he was also immense when we beat Spurs.

I think what happened on Saturday was that the penny dropped for a lot of people, and they realised Ander is actually quite good. Now people are starting to see the things Ander's done all year, hence his high tackle and interception numbers, and they are blowing things slightly out of proportion.
 
He was very good in both Liverpool games. Excellent in Spurs at home too. Stats or no stats, Herrera has been one of our best players this season.
 
Yeah, it's sort of a first touch and a dribble in one - it's quite brilliant. Does Kroos do the same? Never knew he would have it in him...
Yeah it's also a treadmark touch Kross does.
 
Except he doesn't have better stats, you literally have to just add Hendersons name on average per game to see how Herrera still comes out well on top.

The defensive contribution from Pogba and Matic are very similar, Pogba even wins more tackles per game in comparison to Matic and Carrick significantly more interceptions. Crazy considering Matic is 'one of the best ball winners in Europe'.

Herrera averages 3 tackles, 3 interceptions a game, while giving away 1.7 fouls a game and getting dribbled past twice a game.
Henderson averages 3.7 tackles a game, 1.7 interceptions a game , while giving away 1.2 fouls a game and getting dribbled past 1.7 times a game.

Herrera averages 75 passes a game at 88% accuracy, Henderson averages 86 passes a game with an 86% accuracy, but makes more long passes.

Herrera takes 1.4 shots a game without a goal, Henderson takes 0.7 a game with 1 goal, they both average 1.3 key passes a game with Herrera having 3 assists, Henderson having 4. Herrera gets dispossessed 0.8 times a game, Henderson 0.5.

You're right that Henderson doesn't come out on top, but I wouldn't say Herrera does either.
None of these stats give any contextual evidence, the tactics deployed etc.

I haven't checked the Pogba and Matic stats so I'll take your word for it, but it still doesn't take into account the different tactics, playing with 3 CB's and two wingbacks, I just think it's too simplistic to use stats as a reason that player A is better than player B.

fwiw Herrera has been going under the radar, whereas Kante is often the pundits darling.

The stats were put up just as a pointer. Since I saw many people saying Herrera wasnt good enough/needs to be upgraded because he wasnt good enough on the ball. Yet at the same time the Kante thread is full of people saying they would love him here.

Many have been praising Herrera all season. You dont need stats to see hes been one of our most important players this season

The point was to show that Herrera was offering us just as much defensively with the added extra ability on the ball

I agree with that, Herrera has been immense this season.
 
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Herrera seems very reliable. Mourinho issues him instructions and he carries them out perfectly.
 
Herrera averages 3 tackles, 3 interceptions a game, while giving away 1.7 fouls a game and getting dribbled past twice a game.
Henderson averages 3.7 tackles a game, 1.7 interceptions a game , while giving away 1.2 fouls a game and getting dribbled past 1.7 times a game.

Herrera averages 75 passes a game at 88% accuracy, Henderson averages 86 passes a game with an 86% accuracy, but makes more long passes.

Herrera takes 1.4 shots a game without a goal, Henderson takes 0.7 a game with 1 goal, they both average 1.3 key passes a game with Herrera having 3 assists, Henderson having 4. Herrera gets dispossessed 0.8 times a game, Henderson 0.5.

You're right that Henderson doesn't come out on top, but I wouldn't say Herrera does either.
None of these stats give any contextual evidence, the tactics deployed etc.

I haven't checked the Pogba and Matic stats so I'll take your word for it, but it still doesn't take into account the different tactics, playing with 3 CB's and two wingbacks, I just think it's too simplistic to use stats as a reason that player A is better than player B.

fwiw Herrera has been going under the radar, whereas Kante is often the pundits darling.



I agree with that, Herrera has been immense this season.
You say it like playing with two wing backs is somehow more defensive than playing with 2 fullbacks. When you consider how we play with the leftback tucking in we basically play with three at the back anyway. If anything, having additional defenders behind Kante sill only give him further licence to take risks with his Tackling. Then you consider how often each team has to defend: with United having more possession than Chelsea on a regular basis you would have thought that would favour Kante.

You're right, we don't get the whole picture when stats are provided without context. But no one seems to be able to offer any kind of context that can explain why defensively Kante isn't on the same level as Herrera, let alone offensively.
 
I am a massive fan of Ander's but I half feel Herrera is getting too much love for Saturday's performance.

The Watford game was not Herrera's best match for Man Utd. It wasn't even his best game this season. For example, Herrera was much better against Liverpool at Anfield:



I also happen to think, on the whole, Herrera played better when we threw away three points in the last minute against Arsenal and he was also immense when we beat Spurs.

I think what happened on Saturday was that the penny dropped for a lot of people, and they realised Ander is actually quite good. Now people are starting to see the things Ander's done all year, hence his high tackle and interception numbers, and they are blowing things slightly out of proportion.

agree with the whole post, I think he was great against watford but he had even better games earlier in the season, that liverpool game he was just immense, somebody called it the best United midfielder performance in few years, and if we havent failed to score and more players were up to it he would have been recognized much easier.. feck me like 11 interceptions and 16 tackles, that could in total make you win at least three games, average defensive mid could make that in 5 games.. also you forgot to mention the two mancity derby games the one right after the liverpool game was perhaps his second best this season, big game palyer

So I hope he keeps it up and ppl finally recognize he's no cleverley but brilliant midfielder not someone who should be even talked to be replaced next season, yes bring a competition for him but give him credit which he deserves, so being called our best player this season along with Valencia who is also very consistent and his bottom level is so high this season isn't any stretched
 
You say it like playing with two wing backs is somehow more defensive than playing with 2 fullbacks. When you consider how we play with the leftback tucking in we basically play with three at the back anyway. If anything, having additional defenders behind Kante sill only give him further licence to take risks with his Tackling. Then you consider how often each team has to defend: with United having more possession than Chelsea on a regular basis you would have thought that would favour Kante.

You're right, we don't get the whole picture when stats are provided without context. But no one seems to be able to offer any kind of context that can explain why defensively Kante isn't on the same level as Herrera, let alone offensively.

I don't mean it in the sense that two wing backs explains anything, just pointing out that different tactics can explain different individual statistics for players and these aren't taken to account with statistics. Kante had more tackles and interceptions last season, but it's not that his performances have dropped, it's because he's playing in a different tactical system.

Re the bolded bit, I don't think it's as simplistic as saying player A has more tackles than player B, thus he's better defensively. There's a lot more aspects to defending than purely winning the ball back through tackles and interceptions, even for a midfield destroyer like Kante, things like blocking off potential passing routes, having the awareness to fill in gaps teammates leave, knowing where to be to stop a potential counter, these are all things that can't be quantified through the use of statistics.

If you're looking for a concrete answer though, I'd ask why you think statistically Herrera is on another level defensively to Kante?
Combining tackles and interceptions, Kante makes 6 a game, as does Herrera, but Kante makes less fouls and gets dribbled past less.

Offensively there's no question, Herrera is much more competent.
 
I don't mean it in the sense that two wing backs explains anything, just pointing out that different tactics can explain different individual statistics for players and these aren't taken to account with statistics. Kante had more tackles and interceptions last season, but it's not that his performances have dropped, it's because he's playing in a different tactical system.

Re the bolded bit, I don't think it's as simplistic as saying player A has more tackles than player B, thus he's better defensively. There's a lot more aspects to defending than purely winning the ball back through tackles and interceptions, even for a midfield destroyer like Kante, things like blocking off potential passing routes, having the awareness to fill in gaps teammates leave, knowing where to be to stop a potential counter, these are all things that can't be quantified through the use of statistics.

If you're looking for a concrete answer though, I'd ask why you think statistically Herrera is on another level defensively to Kante?
Combining tackles and interceptions, Kante makes 6 a game, as does Herrera, but Kante makes less fouls and gets dribbled past less.

Offensively there's no question, Herrera is much more competent.
Perhaps 'on another level' is hyperbole on my part. My point being Herreras defensive contribution is criminally underrated. When he is putting up numbers better than Kante, he should be talked about in the same bracket, which currently, he isn't. Instead he seems to be judged as a playmaker for some bizarre reason. Although his offensive play is far better than Kantes he's citicised for it while Kante seems impervious to such criticism. I don't think there's been a better midfielder in the league this season yet many here only want to talk about replacing him. Some with the even more limited Bakayoko of all players!
 
Perhaps 'on another level' is hyperbole on my part. My point being Herreras defensive contribution is criminally underrated. When he is putting up numbers better than Kante, he should be talked about in the same bracket, which currently, he isn't. Instead he seems to be judged as a playmaker for some bizarre reason. Although his offensive play is far better than Kantes he's citicised for it while Kante seems impervious to such criticism. I don't think there's been a better midfielder in the league this season yet many here only want to talk about replacing him. Some with the even more limited Bakayoko of all players!

I agree with all of this, Herrera is having a brilliant season and like you said, he's not really getting his due acclaim imo. I think football fans often get influenced by the media, and Kante is seen as the all conquering destroyer, whereas Herrera is the Spanish playmaker, I include myself in that as earlier this season I wasn't sure what the hype was on here regarding Herrera's performances, but the Arsenal game convinced me and I saw him in a different light and whenever I've seen him since he's been class.
 
The putting down of Kante to big up Herrera being done by some on here is embarrassing. As much as I love Herrera, he's not even close to Kante imo. If we were offered a swap I'd be sure almost no Chelsea fans would want that but a large majority of United fans would want that.

In saying that, I feel like Herrera can still go up one gear. He's very talented and I get frustrated with him because I know he can do so much more on the ball but doesn't show it as consistently as he can.
 
The putting down of Kante to big up Herrera being done by some on here is embarrassing. As much as I love Herrera, he's not even close to Kante imo. If we were offered a swap I'd be sure almost no Chelsea fans would want that but a large majority of United fans would want that.

In saying that, I feel like Herrera can still go up one gear. He's very talented and I get frustrated with him because I know he can do so much more on the ball but doesn't show it as consistently as he can.

You are frustrated with Herrera's on ball abilities, but you think he is not even close to Kante. How much frustrated would you be with Kante then?

And why would Chelsea swap change anyone in their team when they are dominating the league? They probably wouldn't change Moses for Valencia either.
 
You are frustrated with Herrera's on ball abilities, but you think he is not even close to Kante. How much frustrated would you be with Kante then?

And why would Chelsea swap change anyone in their team when they are dominating the league? They probably wouldn't change Moses for Valencia either.
I don't expect creative passing from Kante but I do from Herrera that's the difference. Herrera has played as an 8 and 10 throughout his career so we can't hold them to the same standards on that.

As for the second point its fairly simple. They would swap someone in their team only if it improved them. I'm sure if van Dijk was offered instead of Cahill or KDB for Pedro they would probably take it.
 
The putting down of Kante to big up Herrera being done by some on here is embarrassing. As much as I love Herrera, he's not even close to Kante imo. If we were offered a swap I'd be sure almost no Chelsea fans would want that but a large majority of United fans would want that.

In saying that, I feel like Herrera can still go up one gear. He's very talented and I get frustrated with him because I know he can do so much more on the ball but doesn't show it as consistently as he can.
:wenger: I rate both players but Herrera if anything statistically better than Kante and much better going forward how could anyone swap Kante for Herrera, maybe someone like you who has no idea, I wouldn't certainly and they wouldn't both players do fantastic jobs for their teams but why do you say that putting down Kante to big up Herrera is embarrassing and in the same sentence you say he's not even close?? what an utter nonsense, that is an embarrassing post from you, one can argue.

For me there's a slight margin in quality despite Herrera being CLEARLY better offensively and slighlty in statistics, if anything, everything suggest he's the better player by some margin and so ppl can have that opinion without looking like fools but claiming otherwise is just bs.

you're probably one of those victims of media hype... I mean that sort of media hype which for instance made Wayne Rooney stay in our club three fecking years longer than he should..
 
:wenger: I rate both players but Herrera if anything statistically better than Kante and much better going forward how could anyone swap Kante for Herrera, maybe someone like you who has no idea, I wouldn't certainly and they wouldn't both players do fantastic jobs for their teams but why do you say that putting down Kante to big up Herrera is embarrassing and in the same sentence you say he's not even close?? what an utter nonsense, that is an embarrassing post from you, one can argue.

For me there's a slight margin in quality despite Herrera being CLEARLY better offensively and slighlty in statistics, if anything, everything suggest he's the better player by some margin and so ppl can have that opinion without looking like fools but claiming otherwise is just bs.

you're probably one of those victims of media hype... I mean that sort of media hype which for instance made Wayne Rooney stay in our club three fecking years longer than he should..
:lol: This is an absolute car crash of a post.

There's nothing outlandish in saying Herrera doesn't come close to Kante. First off Kante was arguably the player of the year last year and he's right up there this year too. Just watch the games objectively and not focus heavily on stats and you'll see why Kante is rated so highly. The notion that Kante's performances/quality is media driven is a joke. He's hardly skillful, not British, barely scores and is certainly lacking in the looks department so why would he be lavished with praise for anything other than his performances week in week out.

While you're busy trying to convince yourself Herrera is better, Kante is on his way to back to back league titles being in the top 3 most important players.

But yeah media hype :wenger:
 
:lol: This is an absolute car crash of a post.

There's nothing outlandish in saying Herrera doesn't come close to Kante. First off Kante was arguably the player of the year last year and he's right up there this year too. Just watch the games objectively and not focus heavily on stats and you'll see why Kante is rated so highly. The notion that Kante's performances/quality is media driven is a joke. He's hardly skillful, not British, barely scores and is certainly lacking in the looks department so why would he be lavished with praise for anything other than his performances week in week out.

While you're busy trying to convince yourself Herrera is better, Kante is on his way to back to back league titles being in the top 3 most important players.

But yeah media hype :wenger:
Stop embarrassing yourself.

You clearly form your opinion based on what the media is feeding you, otherwise you wouldn't spout such ignorant nonsense in just a few posts.

It's easy to tell when someone speak from genuinely having carefully watched what the players are all about and form their own opinion to those who follow a certain narrative often fed by the media and just mindlessly stuck with it.

You're not fooling anyone.
 
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