Those two hilariously awful shots aside, I thought he was fine last night. Great energy levels, and he busts a gut even when he is probably out on his feet.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 50
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 15
- Red cards
- 2
- Status
They were brilliant shots, very unlucky with both.
I agree, he looked good again to me. But we do need to rest him at some point, he throws everything into every game and we'll suffer badly if he burns out. We've managed to put together a great central midfield finally, but there's almost no depth beyond the first-choice three. Possibly time for BFS to get his run-out.
Why not give him a rest for West Brom and play Schweini or Schneiderlin? I know they're both on their way out, but it's surely better than playing Fellaini again isn't it?
A Carrick myth? surely anyone in there right mind can see how much Herrera has to run in order to keep our midfield working, he is the guy who is applying pressure in midfield and screening the likes of Carrick from having to constantly get in foot races with opposition AM or wingers.
A younger Carrick could handle that shit for 90 minutes, but these days we can't afford to leave Carrick exposed. Could Carrick handle being the sole DM with just Pogba alongside him.. the likelihood is yes, he probably could even at this age due to his footballing brain/still does well in little bursts against a quick player running at him but probably isn't good enough and Herrera is the glue which allows Pogba to float around and Carrick to stay relatively central and not have to do too much defensive work outside of his physical comfort zone.
That does have an impact on your passing especially a guy like Herrera whose never been the tidiest of passers even in his best form.
Anyway the discussion was centered around why he isn't being as creative on the ball and my explanation was related to that issue, not why he can't even do simple passes without messing up.
Not his best game, but he's all action and heart. Really love watching Herrera play.
Herrera is having to be the enforce because Carrick sits deeper and subsequently doesn't press high up the pitch. Pogba could, but he is useless at it. Herrera has done the pressing and been better with his passing in previous games. I think each player compensates for each other and adapts to each other. Carrick, Pogba and Herrera compliment each other well, and I think it's a very strong trio. We may want each of them to press hard like Herrera, dictate play and intercept like Carrick, and offer the muscle and creative aspect of Pogba, but when all those things are combined, it matters little to me which one does it as long as it is done.
Herrera has shown the he is much better at playing a faster passing game than Pogba is, and releases the ball faster - for instance for Mickhi's goal. He has the creativity, but it won't come off every game. Right now, I think we have a pretty creative central midfield. With Mickhi and Martial firing, we have the wingers as well.
Agreed. Therefore I can't believe his 6,5 average rating in here.
I'm guilty for never voting, I haven't done in the last few months.
If I was rating Herreras season I'd give him a 7.5 or 8 out of 10.
Average ratings are always vastly lower than they should be, because people are rational and discerning about rating good performances, but naturally in a shitty mood after bad performances (or just bad results featuring ok performances) and overreact. One indifferent game in a superb season can batter a player's average.
Luckily the proof of our eyes says Herrera's been superb this season, and consistently so.
Agreed! Reply to this and you will have 7000 posts - impressive!
You are right. The same applies to Valencia who also has a criminally low overall rating here.
Basti got 6.2 overall last season...
I don't know. I thought he played well last night. Did the job he is given, that is a player who can fill in at defence or attack as the case maybe so that Pogba is free to do ridiculous stuff on the ball.
Ander 3000... (miles)
Stats have their place @ivaldo but there is much they don't tell you also. But interesting and cheers but I'm wary as do they tell you if you cover someone else or if someone goes hiding during a game or in some positions if you play it properly you may never need to challenge if you are in the correct position or don't need to run as far if you have read the play! So nothing beats imo watching it with your own eyes!
Under Mourinho he has been an important player since day one.
completely agree, I also think he played well yesterday, had some sloppy passes too but Pogba had like tripple that.. my favourite moment was when he found Rojo in the box who would have assisted Mata if he wasn't in offside which in fact wasn't.. so from the little, comparing to Zlatan or Pogba, he tries, he always creates a chance, not talking about his great defensive work which also creates great chances for counters
Doing great. Hoping to see some goals from him.
Shows what I've been arguing for a while, that this cliche'd piece of steel coming in the form of some meat and potatoes british player or tatted up tough guy is a myth, Ander gets it done.
Look at the run of form he had at the back end of 2015, VG found the right system FINALLY at the time the 4141 formation, he was bossing that midfield, the following season VG changes system again, benches herrera. The knife was always out for herrera when ever he started, VG could not wait to bench him, he was in and out of the team, VG never had the confidence he was one of his main men in the team. I think Jose wants aggression from his players, and our players always try something different, not just pass pass pass
Aye it's not everything but it does give a good insight into how he performances against Kante, who I remember you saying you preferred over Ander. You'll be won over sooner or later!
Think I must have said that wrong or you've picked it up wrong as I don't have that opinion. But maybe I've said Kante is more suited to playing in Carricks role and you're mistaken that for me rating him higher!
He would have been as excellent under Fergie as now under Mourinho, no doubt.
Ah OK, fair enough.
I was gonna reply to Rossa but you answered that perfectly.
I've said it in other threads and probably even in this one that, whilst it's great we have a really good midfield set up, in the long term I want to see some variation and hopefully an emergence of Schneiderlin in the team.
In short, what we lose in Carrick's reading of the game and passing from deep, we can gain in pressing higher up the pitch, more tackles and transitions so that fast thinking players like Herrera and Pogba can benefit from that.
It's a chicken and egg situation because sometimes you're not sure whether Carrick's doing a brilliant job screening the back four is a 'good' thing because at his age and natural tendency, that also means we've sat back deeper by 5-15 yards. I'm not criticisng his play but he contributes indirectly in some ways to why we don't go on the front foot as often as we should be.
That's possibly asking too much of a team that's only found it feet in the last 10 or so games but we always need to be thinking ahead.
But Carrick's reading of the game and passing from deep allows Herrera and Pogba to gain a few yards on the pitch and we can actually have a pressing game in the midfield. Herrera, in particular, is a player who benefits more from not playing as a holding midfielder but as a b2b (the more defensive minded) because he can make things happen with the ball. All his goals and assists have come when he's not the deepest lying midfielder.
Plus in both Herrera and Pogba we have to midfielders who can thrive the more they find themselves in the action zones (where the ball is), so imho a calming presence behind them is what they really need. It's true that a 35 yo Carrick absolutely needs exquisite energy levels and stamina in front of him, the likes Ander and Paul provide, but his role on the pitch allows Pogba to play closer to the attacking third of the pitch and Herrera to have the role on the pitch in which he offers to the team not only good defensive contribution but also end product.
I'm assuming that you mention Schneiderlin as a #6. Well, i don't know what good would do to the team if Mourinho added a third midfielder whose best game is when he's in the action zones and he chases the ball around. For the same reason Mascherano was never considered to be an option for the holding role at Barcelona and he has someone like Biglia partnering him in the NT. You want a player there who will know how to maintain the right distances between the lines, protect the central channels with his positioning and use his passing skills in order to move players further up the pitch. Four managers, Pochettino-LvG-Descamps and now Mourinho won't give Morgan this role. They all faced problems at one point in that crucial #6 position and they all passed him by.
The main reason we sit back is because that's Mourinho's game plan. He never believed in high pressing and he probably never will but at least he seems to acknowledge the necessity of having a pressing game at least a bit deeper in the halfway line. Under LvG we used to keep a relatively high line and the Dutchman rated Carrick very highly.
But back to Herrera, it's obvious that Jose wants to turn him into a holding player. He's shown improvement in that role under Jose and he may eventually become a wonderful holding player for us. The key is that, if he makes the transition successfully, Pogba will play as a b2b (#8) and Jose will be able to buy a play maker in the mold of Ozil (good in tight spaces, able to turn his man, excellent off the ball movement in between the lines) and continue with his favorite 4231. The other scenario says that we will look for a new holding player with Pogba retaining his more advanced role (433).
Very good points. You sum up what could very likely happen in the long term but I'm of the believer than right now, in Schneiderlin we have a player that is capable of making a positive difference for us if given the chance (just look at Jones and Rojo as two examples of players, who have showed limited ability but are proving to be solid).
I think the trade off of Carrick's passing/discipline is a worthy one IF we can get an in form Schneiderlin on the pitch. His positioning might be less defensive and tactically unorthodox (a hybrid 6/8 playing solely as the fulcrum of the 6 position alongside another positionally wondering 8 in Herrera) but it'd benefit us in other ways; especially in the league where his energy and ability to cover more ground (box to box) will fit our players massively.
Whilst I agree Mourinho's teams have never really been consistent high pressers, I think he believes in faster transitions and counter attacking opportunities; it's not just higher pressing, it's moving the team up and down the pitch faster and creating those moments of breaks in play, which Carrick does not specialise in.
It's a long shot but we'd said the same about the solid centre back pairing we have now.
As for Herrera, the only way we'd benefit from him in a holding role in the long run imo is if, we can find a better no.8 than him AND a better no.10 than Pogba because otherwise we'd be shoehorning those two in positions where they can do a job but not really be natural.
The ideal player is someone, who has the legs AND brains for the deepest midfielder position so really, what I'm saying is, at this time in moment we should try a Casimiro/Macherano type in there as opposed to finding the next Alonso/Busquets.
It's just a personal preference I guess. I want a MORE swashbuckling style where we can be compact but absolutely destroy teams with sheer energy. I don't think we're ever gonna be a truly possession progressive team under Mourinho (look at the way we conceded possession against Spurs at home). That's a unfair comment seeing we're still finding our form but maybe even he himself doesn't quite know what 'style' he wants; the lowest common demonatator would be a straight forward energy (Scneiderlin), brains and brawn (Herrera and Pogba) spine.
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@criticalanalysis
Your points are valid and i certainly hope you're right about Schneiderlin. I can't say i have the same faith in him as you do but, on the other hand, i don't believe he deserves all the irony and the sarcasm he receives on here lately by some of our fans. In my opinion he has things to offer (it's not like we've been perfect defensively thus far in the season) but i don't think the current setup in the midfield suits him. The way i imagine it, with Morgan, Ander and Pogba we'll look a bit like Everton... pleasing to the eye, very energetic and direct but also all over the place at times with huge gaps in between our lines. You mentioned Casemiro but despite the fact that he's a destroyer and not a deep lying play maker, you rarely see him chasing the ball and closing down opponents in wide areas or very high in the midfield. He protects the 'square' in front of his CBs. I think that's what keeps Morgan on the bench now but i will be more than happy if you are right and i am wrong in this one. I'm a big fan of Ferguson's United throughout the 90s myself but back then we also had by far the best attacking talent in the country and we could turn games into end to end contests because we believed that our superior quality would prevail in the end. From what i've seen till now Mourinho wants us to control matches, especially when we score first.
Your points are valid and i certainly hope you're right about Schneiderlin. I can't say i have the same faith in him as you do but, on the other hand, i don't believe he deserves all the irony and the sarcasm he receives on here lately by some of our fans. In my opinion he has things to offer (it's not like we've been perfect defensively thus far in the season) but i don't think the current setup in the midfield suits him. The way i imagine it, with Morgan, Ander and Pogba we'll look a bit like Everton... pleasing to the eye, very energetic and direct but also all over the place at times with huge gaps in between our lines. You mentioned Casemiro but despite the fact that he's a destroyer and not a deep lying play maker, you rarely see him chasing the ball and closing down opponents in wide areas or very high in the midfield. He protects the 'square' in front of his CBs. I think that's what keeps Morgan on the bench now but i will be more than happy if you are right and i am wrong in this one. I'm a big fan of Ferguson's United throughout the 90s myself but back then we also had by far the best attacking talent in the country and we could turn games into end to end contests because we believed that our superior quality would prevail in the end. From what i've seen till now Mourinho wants us to control matches, especially when we score first.
He has 5 assists already this season? Pretty good for his deeper role. I can only remember the pass for Mkhi's goal v Spurs and the cut back for Mata v Arsenal though...
I think Morgan will be gone in January. It's obvious Jose doesn't rate him at all.
Energy is never as valuable passing and positional discipline. Anyone can run around. Not everybody can control a game of football. If all we needed was a runner we could solve our midfield forever in one day.
Fletcher a "much better player" than Ander Herrera? Darren Fletcher?
Fletcher was a much better player than what I have seen from Herrera so far.
Given the choice of either i would be surprised if many in here would take this seasons Herrera over a prime Fletcher. It's not even close for me!
Agree.
Good to see Fletcher doing well with WBA. Great turn-around after a difficult time.
"Much better player" is an overstatement. But, prime Fletch was at least as good as if not already better than Ander. However, his progress was ruined by injuries and illness.
The current Fletcher is okay. But not the monster that he was or the current Herrera
why do ppl have to exaggerate so much to express their opinion? Fletcher, who I rate very high and is in my top 5 of my most favourite players, in his prime was not obviously so much better Herrera this season if better at all but they are different players and Herrera hasn't played enough to make my opinion about them just yet but they shouldn't be compared so easily..
Fletcher was the best midfielder in the league in what he did and so is Ander this season in which he fully got trust from a manager. I remember Fergie trusting Darren so much in the beginning even the product wasn't there for quite long until he became one of our most important players in that short period when he peaked..
so let's judge Herrera when he at least play a full season under a manager who took over a team which is in transition.
but if I compared them after all, Herrera for me is technically and I think I am not exaggerating here if I say technically better and more all round player than Fletcher was who was a "pure workhorse" in his peak and that was what we so much needed next to Carrick or Scholes. Herrera showed for me he can play multiple roles because he's just so intelligent and slotted everywhere he was asked to.. and if we had them both in the team at the same time I am sure Herrera would slot next to Fletcher easily, I rate him higher than Fletcher in terms of ability for sure but in terms of impact it's yet to see over a longer period of time than some 20 games in which he is our best player of the season so far.. such a shame that Fletcher got that illness and had to change his style forever, that's why he's playing for WBA now not for Manchester United
Sorry m1y2 my friend I have to disagree with you here. The initial statement was Fletcher prime is better than anything we have seen from Herrera. Plus Fletcher was faster, stronger and better in the tackle, better in the air, tougher and the better passer of a ball. The only thing i see Herrera better at is abilty to get out tight areas using his very good first touch trick that works a treat.
He is so energetic and tenacious.
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