I'm sure a midfield duo of Carrick and Herrera would work in a 4-4-2, so there's no reason why he can't play in a trio. The problem was when Van Gaal was using the diamond, he needs width so he tells the central midfielders to play wide, and so we end up basically using 1 central midfielder.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
I think he doesn't rate (or play) Herrera for the same reason he insists on playing 3 at the back instead of a standard 4-5-1 or 4-3-3. With Herrera, we're more open. More likely to create chances, yet also more likely to concede cheap possession or leave gaps at the back. Its probably the same reason Valencia is preferred to Rafael.
I can disagree with Van Gaal's fecking philosophy all I want but the reality is this is what he wants. Its disappointing because I'd assumed "philosophy" would've meant pleasing passing and one touch football, but its looking more and more like "let's keep the ball aimlessly so our opponents can't score (despite there being loads of instances where a team with lesser possession win games, like our performances against Arsenal for the past few years for example.)
I can disagree with Van Gaal's fecking philosophy all I want but the reality is this is what he wants. Its disappointing because I'd assumed "philosophy" would've meant pleasing passing and one touch football, but its looking more and more like "let's keep the ball aimlessly so our opponents can't score (despite there being loads of instances where a team with lesser possession win games, like our performances against Arsenal for the past few years for example.)
Agree with this, they could interchange positions and the quick passing game would suit them all.
I much doubt it. Carrick was never mobile and these things do not improve with age. Herrera is a little magician in CM but we can't ignore his lack of physicality. Id say we should go for 4-3-3. We play Carrick/Blind, Fellaini and Herrera, Valencia/Januzaj and Di Maria on the flanks and Rooney upfront. Its not perfect but its the best team we've got
How did it work with Scholes and Carrick then? Scholes wasn't stronger than Herrera, the better player obviously, but why shouldn't it work with Herrera and Blind against some teams? I'd rather see the midfield 3 as you suggest it as well. Still, a midfield of Herrera and Blind in a 4-4-1-1 with Rooney in his usual role, di Maria on the left and for now Januzaj, Valencia or Young on the right is something I'd rather see than the 3-5-2.
By playing the best central defensive partnership in Europe behind them. Arguably the best back four.
I've actually come around to LVG's way of thinking i.e Herrera should play as a #10 or part of a 3 man midfield. People bring up Carrick and Scholes but you have to remember both of them are fantastic passers over both long and short distances. Herrera isn't really that kind of player. He takes risks and when it's not his day he tends to misplace plenty of passes in dangerous areas. I'd say he's closer to Rooney as a midfielder than he is to Scholes.
That said, I'd have him ahead of Mata all day long as a #10. One thing I love about him is that he never hides. This can often result in him looking shite when things are not going his way (A trait he shares with the likes of Rooney, Di Maria, Nani and co) but for an attacking player I'd rather have that than someone playing it safe 90% of the time.
That said, I'd have him ahead of Mata all day long as a #10. One thing I love about him is that he never hides. This can often result in him looking shite when things are not going his way (A trait he shares with the likes of Rooney, Di Maria, Nani and co) but for an attacking player I'd rather have that than someone playing it safe 90% of the time.
Why are people saying he's light weight? That's a strange observation.
Carrick was younger, Scholes was the most intelligent player we had in two decades, Valencia was at his prime, we could rely on Park and we often helped that midfield with Rooney-Tevez two of the most hardworking strikers I've ever seen. Ah and I forgot we had the best defense in the world and possibly the second best defense I've ever witnessed first hand in football (the best was AC Milan's defense of the Baresi-Maldini era)
That's what this team miss ie balance. These days we've got a pack of big names (some well past their expiry date) who fight one another for a bit of shine.
Last edited:
Also people are saying he will end up back in Spain, who could afford his wages now? He will be on a hell of lot more money than he was at Athletic. I love the way we all seem to know what LvG is thinking. I just think if he had told him he wasn't wanted we would have heard. Past players who have been told it has come out. Nothing has in this instance of social media and insider sources. Knowing us we are completely misreading the situation. People on here are as bigger philosophers as LvG.
Because he's Spanish. He's quite combative and not at all weak on the ball in my opinion.
To be honest the whole team is the problem. There's only the goalkeeper who is playing to his potential and we might lose him. Rvp and Falcao up front are terrible. They are the same player basically and far too slow. Carrick is slow, Mata is slow. Blind is slow, Fellaini is slow. Di Maria has lost his confidence and is played out of position. Rooney is being played out of position and isn't a midfielder so he can test drive Falcao up front. Wilson isn't ready for first team yet. The defence I could go on all day. Valencia god almighty. I think there are a lot more pressing problems that Ander Herrera and a lot of the problems are down to the manager. Looking at hat team and it is no wonder we are creating no chances and the strikers are both going for the same balls, so just get in each others way. I just hope he gets it right against Leicester or the pressure will start to tell. The teams behind us are playing with confidence and we aren't.
It baffles me, everyone keeps saying he is little as well, he is 6ft. You do get 6ft Spaniards you know. He gets stuck in. The fact he does takes risks to me makes him a Manchester United player. I like risk takers. When did Manchester United stop encouraging that?
That's my point. We lack balance ie the right mixture of workrate, technique, brilliance and heart. Also we've got a number of players who are pretty much here for the pay check or are showing clear signs of decline. Falcao would have preferred Real to Manchester. RVP has nothing to prove anymore and is quite settled with the amount of medals he won and the likes of Valencia, Rafael etc are on a free fall in terms of talent and form. Hence why people like me who normally cringe when players like Fellaini play with United want him to play on a regular basis. At least the bean pole play like a player who cares.
We need to restore some balance in the team and that will mean making some painful decisions. Players who are injury prone must be shown the door. Had beens must follow them and also players whose genuinely good but can only play in systems which aren't really good for us (Im referring to Mata). Ideologies and philosophies must give way to what need to be done for the team to be effective. As said I don't like Fellaini very much however he brings balance so Id want to see him on the pitch on a weekly basis. I doubt that having wingers and fullbacks playing the Wingback role is very effective irrespective of whether LVG likes it or not.
Yeah. It's the same misconception like when people say that said full back is poor at defending only because they know he's good at attacking and cannot possibly understand that you can be good at both. Spanish = weak and lazy, British = strong and hard working.
The problem is that LvG also says a lot, but actually says nothing at all. So none of are any the wiser about what is going to happen.
It depends on how you interpret lightweight.
a- Is he perfectly capable to play in EPL football? The answer is an astounding YES.
b- Is he capable of playing in a 2 men CM partnered by an ageing Carrick, nearly zilc workrate from the flanks or upfront and backed by a weak defense? I'd say no. I can't think of many capable of doing that to be honest (apart from maybe Vidal)
a- Is he perfectly capable to play in EPL football? The answer is an astounding YES.
b- Is he capable of playing in a 2 men CM partnered by an ageing Carrick, nearly zilc workrate from the flanks or upfront and backed by a weak defense? I'd say no. I can't think of many capable of doing that to be honest (apart from maybe Vidal)
He seems obsessed with this 3-5-2 crap which I don't completely blame him for it considering he's got just 1 functional fullback (Rafael is useless these days). Nevertheless if I was him I wouldn't have allowed the January sales to pass without adding at least another full back. This should allow him to revert to 4-3-3 which play at the strengths of this team.
I think the Leicester result has defined a lot of our tactics this season. I think the majority of posters on here felt that it was a freak anomaly initiated by a terrible refereeing decision, whereas I think Van Gaal saw it as proof that playing any deviation of 4-4-2 with the likes of Herrera, Mata and Di Maria together as midfielders was suicide.
Again I don't know why that doesn't mean we couldn't try something more conservative but still with the major attacking components, such as Herrera Blind & Carrick with Mata & Di Maria ahead with Rooney up front.
Quality player but the transfer strategy of lack of it has created some big issues. The teams disjointed and in order to find some balance, there must be further causalities. I suspect Herrera may be one of them.....
No because we need to play with 2 strikers.
If we could bench van Persie AND Falcao it'd solve many problems.
It shouldn't be this lad though, there are plenty of players who were already here who should be gone, also we should not be signing Falcao. It almost like Lvg is playing him to throw it back in the boards face. That he wasn't needed and that them bringing him in has forced him to play a team that is all wrong.
Genuinely have no clue why van Gaal doesn't start this lad. I've never seen him not improve us when he comes on as a sub.
I think the majority of people realise Falcao, RVP & Rooney can't all start in a cohesive team. How long it'll take Van Gaal is a different question.
I wonder why we need to do that to be honest. Would it be that tragic if Falcao decide not to sign with us and RVP ends up handling a transfer request? I mean if I was LVG I would be relieved of that.
That works both ways though. It's true that we aren't as good defensively, but Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic and whomever we had as right-back didn't do it on their own. I'd argue that Atletico's defence is only as good as it is, because they defend well as a team. Why can we not be better as a whole than its parts? I am almost certain if Godin would sign for us that he wouldn't be as good as he is in that team. Point is, Herrera is a more than decent defender for a creative player and his physicality as a problem defensively is a bit nonsense in my eyes.
I'm not arguing that we aren't as good as we were defensively. The point I'm trying to make is, Herrera would give us more defenensively and would be better for the balance. It should be Blind next to Herrera in a 4-4-1-1 and I don't think it would be that bad. I wouldn't play it against City or Chelsea, against those teams I would use the same midfield you suggested; Fellaini and Herrera with Carrick or Blind in the holding role, but against teams like Leicester it would work in my opinion.
Falcao and van Persie were actually running into eachother against Cambridge. It was a farce.
I think the board thought bring LvG in would solve everything, yes it would if they had addressed all the problems we had. They have bought two very good midfielders in Blind/Herrera, a not top class CB Rojo ( I like him but we needed better) and Luke Shaw at LB (who doesn't get injured until he steps over our doorstep). Then the board went and got ADM, because PSG couldn't have him and Falcao, who is a lovely guy, but wanted to go to RM. Because LvG wants to wait and wait for Strootman, the midfield was only partially sorted and we needed a higher class CB. He will hold on and hold on for Hummels and will have his heart broken. We have again tried to show faith in our CB's Jones, Smalling and Evans who are now proving to our detriment to either being injury prone or just not up to it. We have Valencia the utility player who is not great defensively, Herrera had to bail him our on Friday against the mighty Cambridge. He is no longer the winger we bought, his speed is there but he cannot beat a man or put a decent cross. Hells bells we have Phil Jones taking corners, where did that one come from? There will be a massive overhaul again in the summer, so I can see us improving a bit, but not win the league, because, knowing us these players will get injured and of course they will all have to settle in.
Totally. Herrera offers plenty defensively and he should be paired up with Blind in CM. I don't see him as a problem defensively at all.
----- Herrera Blind
Januzaj Rooney DiMaria
----------- Falcao
If van Gaal is going to spend the sort of money this Summer as he spent last season he'd better pray we improve more than a "bit". We need to be challenging for the league next year and van Gaal won't get nowhere near the easy ride he's had from the fans this season if it isn't much better next.
Let me rephrase it. Its not Herrera's fault but the team around him. Blind/Carrick are hardly the hardworking quality DM (Keane type) we need, we've got little cover from the flanks, the defense is in shambles and the forward line is slow and hardly hardworking.
It may work if we play something similar to this
Valencia-------Herrera---------Blind-------------Di Maria
-------------------------Mata-----------------------
--------------------------Rooney---------------------------
with Herrera/Di Maria moved as AM against tougher sides to allow more defensive minded players like Young, Fellaini or Carrick in. However that would mean leaving RVP/Falcao out in favor of someone more useful to have around
@devilish I agree with that. One of the reasons I want us to sign Schneiderlin or a similar midfielder is that we could use the 4-3-3 or 4-4-1-1. Both Herrera and Mata would be benefitting from that.
What worries me with this board now is that they want the Galatico signing each summer. They will sign a big name, no matter if he is what we went or need. Then LvG being the stubborn beggar that he is will play him out of position just to prove they shouldn't have bought him. It knowing if he wants to play with winger, in that case a Bale would be good, if that is where he plays now. We are all presuming of course that the Ashley Young of this season turns up next season. You just know Ed has the hots for Cavani and then we will be in the same damn boat again.
Never mind next season, he's not going to get an easy ride between now and the end of this one if the team doesn't start playing a lot better. In fact, I'm absolutely certain there will be a majority on here wanting rid if we don't finish in the top four.
I can say that I will. I've supported him from the beginning but I've been losing patience in the last month, he's been incredibly frustrating as a manager making inexplicable decisions that cost us points.
It's apparently a standard curve with him. You're impressed at first and then he becomes increasingly annoying to the point you want rid of him (and the board feel the same because he's supposed to be very difficult to work with). At least that's what Bayern fans told us in the Summer, I believe. Long term clubs benefit from his work but in the short term he's usually poisonous.
The thing that makes me mad is we have the material to play a more balanced side than the ones we've been putting out over the last few months if only the manager grew a pair. If Van Gaal had made the decision to play Rooney upfront ahead of a five men midfield consisting Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini, Januzaj and Di Maria, the players so left out will work hard to bring themselves back in the reckoning. This thing of fitting everyone in, guaranteeing people slots in the team regardless of form is killing us.
Herrera makes us a better attacking force, linking up play and forcing matters plus he is more defensively aware than Mata/RVP/Falcao, we should be trying harder to fit him in.
Herrera makes us a better attacking force, linking up play and forcing matters plus he is more defensively aware than Mata/RVP/Falcao, we should be trying harder to fit him in.
I think he has badly underestimated the quality of the PL. It isn't Spain/Germany where the top teams have no trouble in the end beating the lower teams. Here any team can beat another on a given day. I'd imagine what has happened in the F.A. Cup this weekend will have opened his eyes even more. Unfortunately it might just have made him think more defensively.
His stubborness will get him fired in the end. It has in some of his other jobs. It will then be up to the board to show some courage. I know they want to give managers time. SAF was a one off. For all his winning LvG has never been at a club for years and years. That was supposed to be one of the reasons we didn't get Jose. Jose would have got a winning mentality into this side.Yes Louis leaves clubs in good shape, but I am not sure if he has bitten off more than he can chew in our case.
I honestly don't think that is what is happening with Herrera or at least I hope it isn't. I also don't think that we force any signing on van Gaal, otherwise we would hear something sooner or later and the same thing that happened at Bayern would happen again.
Very true but I think there will still also be a large portion of fans, like me, willing to give him this season to settle and really begin to judge him next season.
More importantly, I think unless it starts going badly wrong, the matchgoing fans will be behind him for the remainder of the season. There may be the occasional jeer but I don't think we're in any danger of mass vocal unhappiness at Old Trafford.
EDIT: I didn't read that properly first time around. Top 4 is minimum expectation. Looking like we will finish out of the top 4 is what I mean by "going badly wrong".
- Status