Exactly, we need a squad that you could all class as first teamers elsewhere. Two first teams. We have started the process this season and will continue in the summer. He will not sell any of the new players, but the players who were already here will be worried, which to be honest shows in some of their performances. I don't think we will sign Falcao either and RvP isn't a certainty to me. This is the first time we have had a quality midfielder and we ain't selling him. Fletcher will go I think and god help us Anderson, just buy him out.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
To honest I'm not too fussed over him not starting, but rather him being left out because Rooney is taking up his spot in midfield. If it was Fellaini in there then I could understand it because he has played well when picked this season and is an actual midfielder but even he couldn't make it into the starting line up. Makes me think Van Gaal doesn't actually have that much of an issue with Herrera, he's just easier to drop than some of the other players.
It was an odd one. I doubt he did it to humiliate the boy. I don't think he would do that. Just lost his marble for a moment.
Ander didn't look happy.
He's in direct competition with Rooney, Di Maria and Mata for 2 spots in the the starting eleven so you guys shouldn't be to harsh on him for not starting, those 3 are pretty descent players.
Really. I will look at it again. He will have to just show character and not let it bother him. If he plays against Cambridge, I would be amazed if he doesn't. Just go out and perform well.
He's in competition for Rooney in the wrong position that's the trouble.
People forget that players coming on for a 15 second cameo is a few thousand extra on their appearance fee bonuses.
I'd be hugging the manager then.
There is NO reason for Rooney to play instead of Herrera, no reason, as there is no reason for di Maria to play instead of Rooney.
With for midfielders, they all have they place in the team, with five also mostly. Just this 3 man midfield sh*t is which is causing all the problems.
With for midfielders, they all have they place in the team, with five also mostly. Just this 3 man midfield sh*t is which is causing all the problems.
If you are talking about Rooney in the number 10 position I don't agree he is a very good 10 so I don't think that would be his wrong position. But I asume you mean Rooney in a central midfield role and I do agree that Rooney should play further up the pitch but neither do I think Herrera should play in central midfield in the 3-5-2 formation as his defensive work rate is not good enough. But if we play the diamond which we should in my opinion Herrera would be very well suited as a central midfielder if played next to a more defensive player like Fellaini.
I wonder if we should have two upfront as well. Not sure. If he wants Rooney slightly back, only have one striker. If he wants to be safer 4 at the back and pack the midfield with mainly midfielders.
I actually think Herrera believes he is a number 8. It is LvG again who is trying to put players into little boxes and getting them wrong. As you say all you need to do is put somebody a bit more robust next to him. It isn't as though he contributes nothing to the defensive side. Crikey, Scholes was a bloody liability in that department. It isn't everything.
He's already in prison, except it's in Manchester instead of Spain.
I would play with only one striker and Rooney as a SS, like against QPR the first game. There Rooney could help the midfield a bit, but still be dangerous enough.
If LVG is afraid becaus of our balance, then Blind a Carrick can play in midfield, with Herrera/Mata/Rooney and di Maria on the wing and proper FBs, and some people on the bench.
Are biggest problem is that LVG has to play Rooney, RVP and another striker and that doesn't work. He has to be ready to drop Rooney, RVP, di Maria on the bench to be able to have a balanced team.
So he is going to have to show these famous balls. He just seems to sail close to the wind sometimes. As though he loves doing it wrong to then try to put it right and make himself look like a genius.
What I don't understand. In first half of the season, 2, or 3 times he subbed Herrera ON and then said the we improved.
Then against Yeovil Herrera play badly, Mata comes in and we play better.
So why not start them together?
Our problems are the numbers in midfield and the player positions (where they play on wrong positions), sometimes both and both of these things are a problem because he wants some player to play no matter what.
I don't think that we would have been at all successful if our best CM was of Rooney's quality or strike of ADM's quality, so why force it now?
Then against Yeovil Herrera play badly, Mata comes in and we play better.
So why not start them together?
Our problems are the numbers in midfield and the player positions (where they play on wrong positions), sometimes both and both of these things are a problem because he wants some player to play no matter what.
I don't think that we would have been at all successful if our best CM was of Rooney's quality or strike of ADM's quality, so why force it now?
I wonder how long Rooney will be happy if his non-goalscoring in the league goes on. He is a striker and likes the glory of scoring. It must be frustrating for him to see Mata/Falcao missing the chances they did.
You're doing your possible to bring that term into vogue on the Cafe, Pogue.
I hope you succeed. Think what would happen if pundits starting using it on TV. The image of the game would be transformed - no more cloth cap.
I think he may go back to Spain in the summer.....
van Gaal didn't target Herrera or Di Maria. Hence him not knowing how he wants to use them. Di Maria quite literally has to play though, whereas Herrera doesn't.
It's a shame. Herrera's not the type of guy (from what I've seen/read of him) who'll stick around for long just because we're United if he isn't being used properly.
I think he'll be back in Spain within a couple of seasons.
I Can understand the club giving van Gaal Di Maria to work with (we needed a marquee signing) but I'm not actually sure of the mechanics of the Herrera transfer.
Obviously there's got be a balance between letting every manager sign their own targets and forcing players on them. But it looks like we've spent £30 million on a player the manager wouldn't have bought given £30 million to spend.
It's a shame. Herrera's not the type of guy (from what I've seen/read of him) who'll stick around for long just because we're United if he isn't being used properly.
I think he'll be back in Spain within a couple of seasons.
I Can understand the club giving van Gaal Di Maria to work with (we needed a marquee signing) but I'm not actually sure of the mechanics of the Herrera transfer.
Obviously there's got be a balance between letting every manager sign their own targets and forcing players on them. But it looks like we've spent £30 million on a player the manager wouldn't have bought given £30 million to spend.
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I agree. For me, it's inconceivable that LVG has not realized that Rooney's behind should be moved up front while Herrera has been bought on purpose to give that energy in midfield and those cutting-edge passes. It's not worth looking elsewhere for an explanation as to why we don't have a spark in midfield while Rooney is doing shit in that position.
Erm....he was injured! He had a broken rib. We tried to play him in the West Brom game with some protection in the rib area and he was awful.
Eh?
You're not seriously suggesting that both Di Maria and Herrera were bought by Woodward/The Club without Van Gaal assessing and confirming them before hand?
No. They consulted him, but he's not going to say no to quality being added, and I don't think he would have had much choice anyway.
The club needed a marquee signing, and he's not going to turn down Di Maria, even if he doesn't know what he wants to do with him. Or even if he doesn't fit his idea of a midfielder.
But give van Gaal £80 million and he's not buying Herrera and Di Maria, in my opinion.
I'm not saying that he was against signing them, but that he wasn't particularly pro-signing them. And it's bringing about a few issues now.
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yes, but there was a period after that where he was in the squad, but didnt even get subbed on for 5 or 6 games. I dont know how long he didnt play after that west brom game, but it was a long time.
[QUOTE"Ole's_toe_poke, post: 16984518, member: 40797"]--------------Carrick
----Herrara-----------Fellaini/Blind----
--------------Di Maria
-----Rooney------------Falcao[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind that at all. This is more or less the same but I'd prefer this
Di Maria in his favoured LCM role where he has the freedom to drop deep, buzz around the pitch, drive down the left flank and contribute to the midfield with his industry.
Basically I would love to keep his starting position as further away from the forward line as much as possible in our current team. Don't get me wrong, he's versatile and can play in various forward positions successfully but only when he has players like Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema peeling off players, making decoy runs and dragging defenders away, making space for him.
It's never going to work for Di Maria now with our tumescent build up and slower forwards. Mainly and obviously because he's never going to thrive with his back to goal and being heavily man marked, due to his physique.
Secondly and more importantly, his dribbling style. He's the type of dribbler who has outrageous pace and is brilliant with the ball at full pelt. He's not so much a great dribbler from a standstill, jinxing past players like Messi or Iniesta. In fact you'd see some players stop the ball in the middle of the run and jinx past the same player again because they don't have enough pace to carry on. Not Di Maria, he's got outrageous pace and exceptional ball control at top speed.
That's not to say he can't dribble from a standstill, just that he's harder to contain when dribbling at top speed rather than from a standstill.
You need to exploit his drive and provide him with the space (not that much, he reaches top speed in a very short time) to gain that momentum which makes him a genuine threat. No surprise that he played best in the midfield role (where he operated in less congested areas and had a free license to roam) and not in the forward roles where he was easily stifled in crowded areas via man marking.
Fellaini to do his defensive box to box role and Carrick being the holding mid. Di Maria is brilliant out wide and Herrera is proficient in wider areas, as evidenced by his displays in the diamond earlier in the season. So no real problem about a lack of width or cover for FBs as both of them are very hardworking.
Might seem unbalanced and over attacking to some but this is where Rooney as a second striker, his best position, comes in. He can easily cover for the midfield runners by dropping back when necessary. Imo, he should always be used in a role which utilizes his goalscoring ability, hold up play and link up play first and foremost and then his industry and passing range. Never the other way around.
Herrera being underutilized so far has been dissapointing to say the least. I understand that LVG wants to build a possession based team and Herrera's passing has been iffy at times. Granted he's also been overrated by some here (including me) but LVG must surely know that even in such a system, you need players who can up the tempo with a quick one two, quick give and go football etc.
How many players in our team can do this? Di Maria (like he did early on in the season) but he's shackled in his forward/winger role nowadays and ..... Even uber possession based teams need someone like an Iniesta/Neeskens to quicken the tempo at the right time or else you are forever going to be stuck on the first gear, aimlessly passing the ball around for the sake of it, like we are at the moment.
Herrera has the capability to play this role with his high tempo game and typical Spanish give and go football combined with mobility. Admittedly, he hasn't set the world alight with some of his performances but we really haven't seen the best of him yet. IMO he hasn't got enough chances to show it as well. His type of football could quite possibly be the remedy to the tumescent football which we are playing now, which is why many rate his importance to the team very highly (to the point that some might feel he's overrated).
----Herrara-----------Fellaini/Blind----
--------------Di Maria
-----Rooney------------Falcao[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind that at all. This is more or less the same but I'd prefer this
Carrick
Herrera Fellaini Di Maria
Rooney-------
--------Falcao
Basically players in their best roles more or less.Herrera Fellaini Di Maria
Rooney-------
--------Falcao
Di Maria in his favoured LCM role where he has the freedom to drop deep, buzz around the pitch, drive down the left flank and contribute to the midfield with his industry.
Basically I would love to keep his starting position as further away from the forward line as much as possible in our current team. Don't get me wrong, he's versatile and can play in various forward positions successfully but only when he has players like Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema peeling off players, making decoy runs and dragging defenders away, making space for him.
It's never going to work for Di Maria now with our tumescent build up and slower forwards. Mainly and obviously because he's never going to thrive with his back to goal and being heavily man marked, due to his physique.
Secondly and more importantly, his dribbling style. He's the type of dribbler who has outrageous pace and is brilliant with the ball at full pelt. He's not so much a great dribbler from a standstill, jinxing past players like Messi or Iniesta. In fact you'd see some players stop the ball in the middle of the run and jinx past the same player again because they don't have enough pace to carry on. Not Di Maria, he's got outrageous pace and exceptional ball control at top speed.
That's not to say he can't dribble from a standstill, just that he's harder to contain when dribbling at top speed rather than from a standstill.
You need to exploit his drive and provide him with the space (not that much, he reaches top speed in a very short time) to gain that momentum which makes him a genuine threat. No surprise that he played best in the midfield role (where he operated in less congested areas and had a free license to roam) and not in the forward roles where he was easily stifled in crowded areas via man marking.
Fellaini to do his defensive box to box role and Carrick being the holding mid. Di Maria is brilliant out wide and Herrera is proficient in wider areas, as evidenced by his displays in the diamond earlier in the season. So no real problem about a lack of width or cover for FBs as both of them are very hardworking.
Might seem unbalanced and over attacking to some but this is where Rooney as a second striker, his best position, comes in. He can easily cover for the midfield runners by dropping back when necessary. Imo, he should always be used in a role which utilizes his goalscoring ability, hold up play and link up play first and foremost and then his industry and passing range. Never the other way around.
Herrera being underutilized so far has been dissapointing to say the least. I understand that LVG wants to build a possession based team and Herrera's passing has been iffy at times. Granted he's also been overrated by some here (including me) but LVG must surely know that even in such a system, you need players who can up the tempo with a quick one two, quick give and go football etc.
How many players in our team can do this? Di Maria (like he did early on in the season) but he's shackled in his forward/winger role nowadays and ..... Even uber possession based teams need someone like an Iniesta/Neeskens to quicken the tempo at the right time or else you are forever going to be stuck on the first gear, aimlessly passing the ball around for the sake of it, like we are at the moment.
Herrera has the capability to play this role with his high tempo game and typical Spanish give and go football combined with mobility. Admittedly, he hasn't set the world alight with some of his performances but we really haven't seen the best of him yet. IMO he hasn't got enough chances to show it as well. His type of football could quite possibly be the remedy to the tumescent football which we are playing now, which is why many rate his importance to the team very highly (to the point that some might feel he's overrated).
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If he is trying to force the boy to go by humiliating him, then it is despicable. As I said he would be great in our midfield if LvG would stop being so bloody stubborn. It will bite him on the bum in the end. In his mind he is convinced he will win the league with us. I don't think we will, we will compete, but his stubborness will prevent any more than that. He won't actively come out and say he is wrong. He chooses the wrong team, has to alter it and then want praise for getting it wrong in the first place, not saying actually I got it wrong, he will say that the players were doing it right, so I had to alter it. As it has been said before his record in the market isn't great. So if he then sells Herrera and bombs out Shaw, but then pursues two players who have had long term injuries I will be very suspicious of his buying abilities.
Yeah he should play more but some of the posts here are hilarious.
LVG isnt humilating him and Herrera wont leave United after one season. And no, he isnt in a prison already.
My god.
LVG isnt humilating him and Herrera wont leave United after one season. And no, he isnt in a prison already.
My god.
I was only saying that because someone else thought that. The prison thing astounded me rather. I don't think he will go, I hope not anyway. Just stick it out and see what happen next season as there will be more games, heres hoping. Everyone will get playing time. More games then maybe the formation can be changed more depending on what is needed.
Yeah, no need to go all paranoia just because he isnt a starter..
My tagline is summing me up at the moment. I will be glad when the season is over, we are in the Top 4 and everyone is happy and maybe an F.A. Cup win. Preferably preventing Stevie Gee getting a trophy on his birthday. Of course Herrera getting the winner.
My tagline is summing me up at the moment. I will be glad when the season is over, we are in the Top 4 and everyone is happy and maybe an F.A. Cup win. Preferably preventing Stevie Gee getting a trophy on his birthday. Of course Herrera getting the winner.
Herrera is a good player and he should play more but this forum sometimes. Every time someone isnt starting or inst a regular it automatically means he's gone.
There are better than him out there, but I doubt he thinks he is the best. We will need that big squad next season, the Capital One Cup knockout has not helped giving players games either. We need to be able to make changes in games without it diminishing our threat. Up to this season it has. Now we have a really strong bench that can either change games or at least maintain the standard.
Herrera is a good player and he should play more but this forum sometimes. Every time someone isnt starting or inst a regular it automatically means he's gone.
If we can find a midfielder of the stature of Felliani and the technical ability of Herrera, both will be redundant over night. Felliani has improved more in his ability than Herrera who imo is still coming to terms with the physicality and pace of the league.....and that's why he's playing more games
Of course. But then he spent, what, 6 games on the bench just about injured enough not to get a minute of football but not injured enough to be dropped from the bench in all that time? Right after the WBA game where LVG spoke about realising the need for a physical presence in midfield? Seems fanciful to me, given what we've seen since.
Feck it lets just get #FreeAnder going already.
@DomesticTadpole if you are going to be Ander's MadWinger you need to throw in a few more random stats and percentages. Good work so far though, I see the potential in you.
@DomesticTadpole if you are going to be Ander's MadWinger you need to throw in a few more random stats and percentages. Good work so far though, I see the potential in you.
So many people with theories of LvG not rating Herrera or whatever. Maybe he just hasn't been that good? As tough as that is for a lot on here to take. He's not done enough to deserve starting.
Unless you throw Herrera into the fire again and again like any footballer should go through, we can't expect him to show that improvement at all. If anything, it's LVG's stupid obsession with pointless and gutless ball possession that is the main obstacle to any of our players who is willing to take risks.
That late change just to give him only 20 seconds was extremely humiliating.
I want to see some confidence being shown in this lad and for us to encourage him to dictate games. Criminal use of him atm.
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