21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Good thing he was kept busy running around with the reserves tonight, watching Bilbao winning in the Champions League might have had him missing home. Being backup to Fellaini, question marks about your managers opinion of you and the Winter here is not a good combination.
Herrera was out for over a month with a rib injury. I really wouldn't read too much into him not playing for the first team yet. He could still be in a bit of discomfort and by playing in the reserve games it's easing him back to fitness.
Depends if there is only one aspect to football then yeah Herrera is considerably better but, it's not. Fellaini and him both have their positives / negatives and both have a lot to offer the team. Herrera has only played a few games from us and while he did help with us looking good going forward in some games, we also were looking vulnerable as well and it wasn't all down to the defense. Herrera playing won't necessarily get us playing a lot better both ways.
There's no way you look that happy if you are in anyway being excluded or forced out.
Top bloke
My thoughts as well. I'm still convinced that he's not fully recovered from the rib injury and him playing tonight was a big step in him getting back on the pitch for the first team. I don't believe the nonsense that he's fallen out of favor with van Gaal.
He looked absolutely delighted to be playing a game of football again. I just love the guy's demeanor.
I think some would actually prefer to think LvG doesn't like him. For whatever reason.
I'm pretty sure he will play in the upcoming games. Just hope he keeps his place as he brings a tempo, fluidity and energy to our play that we lack without him. Blind and Herrera are our best CMs by some distance.
I'm pretty sure he will play in the upcoming games. Just hope he keeps his place as he brings a tempo, fluidity and energy to our play that we lack without him. Blind and Herrera are our best CMs by some distance.
What reason would that be? Seriously. I can't think of any. What do you mean?
Review your posts from few days back pal.
Great to see him back playing look forward to him coming back into starting line up. Hard to get into a winning team, but maybe this weekend we could put out more of an attacking line up.
How have the ressie's got set piece routines and it doesnt look like we can do anything half as creative from similar positions....wide free kicks / corners
How have the ressie's got set piece routines and it doesnt look like we can do anything half as creative from similar positions....wide free kicks / corners
Herrera is miles better than Fellaini all things considered. We looked vulnerable due to the formation. Defensively, Herrera is better than Fellaini anyway.
True. He's by far the better player and although Fellaini proved to be able to do a specific job, he's still a limited player who suits our team only when he has a specific job like against Chelsea or City.
We badly missed Herrera's allrounder qualities and his creativity and urgency in our midfield. I hope he's back next Saturday
I don't think Van Gaal sees it that way.
Hererra will probably make more tackles but Fellaini seems to covers more ground and his aerial presence is a huge bonus at set-pieces and competing for high balls in and around our box. Plus Fellaini's a lot less likely to concede possession with a loose pass in a dangerous area of the pitch (yes, he did it against Arsenal but he had been very safe with his passing in the last few games)
It depends what you're looking for really. With a full strength, settled defence make more sense to play Hererra ahead of Fellaini because his defensive qualities might suit us better in that scenario. With the cobbled together defence of the last few weeks Fellaini's been a great help and playing Herrera ahead of him would have made us a lot more vulnerable.
Is there any stat to suggest that Fellaini covers more ground than Herrera? As for being likely to lose possession, it's all about instructions from the manager. Ask Ander to play it safe, and he will do so, could probably even indulge in tiki-taka, if need be. Ander is a much better passer than Fellaini, and moreover, he keeps the midfield clicking, which is also an extremely useful way of keeping the pressure off the defense and actually trying to put some pressure on opposition. Herrera is faster, covers more ground, is the better passer and actually a good reader of the game. Fellaini's advantage is his height (aerial duels) and physicality. I also believe that Herrera is much less likely to commit a dangerous foul compared to Marouane.
I dunno. You seem to have access to them, so maybe you tell me?
My comment was based on previous discussions about Fellaini where someone posted stats about him consistently covering more ground than anyone else on the pitch. I'll admit I'm making an assumption that he covers more ground than Hererra but it seems more likely than the reverse being true (your claim)
People are definitely revising sentiments and conjuring up fachts in the attempt to discredit Ander's performances and prove that Fellaini is better defensively. A lot of basic stats prove otherwise almost across the board :
Can't find credible distance stats ATM but one does get the sense that certain players are branded lazy twats/ soft/ weak for no apparent reasons just to suit prevalent narrative. eg. Ozil was being called out for a lack of effort some weeks ago despite covering a lot of ground for Arsenal in the preceding league fixture which was a bit unfair because he's clearly trying to improve upon that aspect of his game.
It's a tough tag to shake off once there's a perception surrounding you (rightly or wrongly).
Can't find credible distance stats ATM but one does get the sense that certain players are branded lazy twats/ soft/ weak for no apparent reasons just to suit prevalent narrative. eg. Ozil was being called out for a lack of effort some weeks ago despite covering a lot of ground for Arsenal in the preceding league fixture which was a bit unfair because he's clearly trying to improve upon that aspect of his game.
It's a tough tag to shake off once there's a perception surrounding you (rightly or wrongly).
Fellaini runs more but he is not more effective than Herrera.
By covering you mean running a longer distance ?
People are definitely revising sentiments and conjuring up fachts in the attempt to discredit Ander's performances and prove that Fellaini is better defensively. A lot of basic stats prove otherwise almost across the board :
Can't find credible distance stats ATM but one does get the sense that certain players are branded lazy twats/ soft/ weak for no apparent reasons just to suit prevalent narrative. eg. Ozil was being called out for a lack of effort some weeks ago despite covering a lot of ground for Arsenal in the preceding league fixture which was a bit unfair because he's clearly trying to improve upon that aspect of his game.
It's a tough tag to shake off once there's a perception surrounding you (rightly or wrongly).
Ozil is clearly a lazy twat though, so that's just evidence of how deceptive these stats can be.
Nobody is accusing Hererra of being lazy/soft/weak so not sure where you're going with this anyway.
I remember reading that in the Chelsea game, Fellaini covered more ground than anyone else on both teams.
Erm, there's barely anything in it. And before you jump on me, i definitely prefer Herrera to Fellaini.
He is at times, I'm not disputing that. But Ozil does get a fair bit of stick (unjustly IMO) even when he puts in a solid shift while certain players who're established as 'workhorses' in the media's consciousness get an easy ride. Mesut is a very easy scapegoat for Arsenal's maladies and has been for the past year or so.
In reference to your second point - I've seen plenty of posters (won't name names) mention Ander's weak frame (he's a tough, spirited lad despite the slightness and almost 6 feet tall to be fair) and poorer defensive work-rate as reasons for Van Gaal not rating him. These views are a bit disingenuous because none of us have the foggiest about Louis' plans or preferences at United. This aside from the fact the Herrera might not be 100 % fit (I dunno, can't comment on this, not a medical expert).
I'm sorry but whoever jumped on you ?
Nobody. Just as well that I didn't say anyone did.
People are definitely revising sentiments and conjuring up fachts in the attempt to discredit Ander's performances and prove that Fellaini is better defensively. A lot of basic stats prove otherwise almost across the board :
I think thats what you call winning
Those stats mean feck all without context. What's a better test of defensive mettle? Playing against Leicester, QPR and West Ham? Or City, Chelsea and Arsenal?
You really don't like Herrera do you? Just add him to the list that includes Nani, RVP, LVG, Di Maria. Yet you seem to love the likes of Moyes, Fellaini, Valencia, and Rooney. Hmmm. There's a trend developing in there.
The only thing Fellaini is better at is chesting the ball.
Would love to know how much of the ground Fellaini is covering is because he has no clue where to position himself.
He has done well in recent weeks no doubt about it but when it comes to who is the better midfielder between him and Herrera there is just no competition
He has done well in recent weeks no doubt about it but when it comes to who is the better midfielder between him and Herrera there is just no competition
I think Pogue summed up Fellaini's defensive advantage when he said his "aerial presence is a huge bonus at set-pieces and competing for high balls in and around our box."
I think that is the long and short of it. That and, while Im not saying Herrera is weak on the ball just because he is small, Fellaini clearly has an advantage here, both in strength on the ball himself and going out and roughing the opposition up - an especially handy attribute against Arsenal.
But he also conceded that if we had a properly functioning defense it would probably be less of an issue. Overall Herrera looks the better defensive presence to me. But both are capable there, and neither specialise in it.
I think that is the long and short of it. That and, while Im not saying Herrera is weak on the ball just because he is small, Fellaini clearly has an advantage here, both in strength on the ball himself and going out and roughing the opposition up - an especially handy attribute against Arsenal.
But he also conceded that if we had a properly functioning defense it would probably be less of an issue. Overall Herrera looks the better defensive presence to me. But both are capable there, and neither specialise in it.
It's a myth that Fellaini is an effective defensive midfielder. He's not. He's a good man-marker, he's a real asset when defending set-pieces, but his actual in-play defending is not good. He doesn't have the positional sense or tackling ability.
He's got back to his Everton levels in terms of the things which he does provide: the aforementioned man-marking and aerial defending, his aerial goal-threat, his brilliant holding-up of the ball up top. But because of that people seem to be unduly praising him whenever he manages to do very basic midfield jobs. A game where he doesn't misplace half his passes and makes a few interceptions is called an 'impressive midfield performance', but any other midfielder would be expected to do those things as the bare minimum.
Except in circumstances where we need that specific set of assets that Fellaini offers, he shouldn't be starting ahead of a proper midfielder like Herrera.
He's got back to his Everton levels in terms of the things which he does provide: the aforementioned man-marking and aerial defending, his aerial goal-threat, his brilliant holding-up of the ball up top. But because of that people seem to be unduly praising him whenever he manages to do very basic midfield jobs. A game where he doesn't misplace half his passes and makes a few interceptions is called an 'impressive midfield performance', but any other midfielder would be expected to do those things as the bare minimum.
Except in circumstances where we need that specific set of assets that Fellaini offers, he shouldn't be starting ahead of a proper midfielder like Herrera.
What about his highly advanced elbowing skills?
And the worst thing is he's actually in great form, the guy can't do anything right according to some people here.
This thread overall, Jesus fecking Christ, it's almost as if Fellaini picked himself again
If there is you'll have to spell it out for me.
I'll help by listing other players I have (Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Rio, Evra, Fletcher, Ruud) and haven't (Fabio, Hernandez, Kagawa, Anderson, Kleberson, Smith) rated over the years.
Now, what is this trend you speak of?
Who called him an effective defensive midfielder?
He was only mentioned in this thread as someone who has certain defensive qualities that Hererra does not. Some of which you've gone on to spell out.
The reason for these being mentioned was to explain why he might be preferred to Hererra against tough opposition, when we've a threadbare back four.
That's not quite as straight forward as it seems, those teams play like terriers, like it's their cup finals, they'll run and hassle all afternoon. Also there is a difference in the type of player you come up against in the two cases, I mean look at those big shit kickers in West Ham's team vs the softness of Arsenal just as one example of a team that might not have the status but would be physically harder to play again in a defensive aspect.
Well both will get a lot of games this season so I don't get why people love the comparison that much.
The lad has played 4 games for us. Remeber Evra's status after 4 games? It's a nonsense to expect to be able to judge a player on 4 games especially with all the change and transition here this season.
I genuinely thought the Djemba twins were going to be great for us.
I was wrong.
I was wrong.
Don't quite see why this is framed as an either/or situation. If Hererra is fit and we go back to 2 CBs I would expect to see both of them out there. I suppose that, if we stick with 3 CBs, Fellaini is more likely to get the nod because he'll fit better into LvG's tactical plan, but I don't see why that should be taken as an indication of LvG liking or not liking either of the players - Herrera might be the best round peg in the world, but if LvG sees a square hole he's going to pick a square peg.
Before the Arsenal game, I read that they are one of the worst teams at defending set pieces. That's another factor LvG would have considered, not just his defensive set piece contributions.
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